Alrighty, for better or worse, I have narrowed my plasma purchase down to the panasonic 58" 700U or the Pioneer 5080HD. Reviews here of the two tvs point to the Kuro's picture quality advantages, but there is something about paying a little more to get the larger 58" screen of the Panasonic (more immersive feel). I've gone back and forth on the two options and am looking for some input to help tilt my decision or at least make it easier! So, whatcha all think? (In case it matters: Love watching hockey, although that is often a non-HD source, play video games relatively infrequently, lots of movies, etc.. And, are the whites on plasmas 'better' at home - hockey just popped on the LCDs, but so much commentary pointing towards the plasma in general....)
58" panasonic vs 5080HD
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Panasonic bro...Best flat panel Consumer Reports has ever tested....Also your talking about a 58 1080p vs a 50 720p....This shouldnt even be a debate....
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The 5080 Kuro is better in almost every way PQ-wise...but I would buy the Panny because of the 8". You will spend ~$850 more though, even through a forum sponsor.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! My budget fell in the $3200-$3400 range, which is where I landed on the 58" and, at less than budget, the smaller Pioneer. If there was a Pioneer closer to price of the 58" Panasonic, I would consider the comparison certainly. Say it was the 5010FD vs the 58" panasonic, would the Panasonic still win? Ultimately, I guess I was interested in seeing whether the PQ benefits of the smaller pioneer would lead folks to turn down the larger sized, yet still pretty darn good, 58" panasonic.
The other wildcard in all of this is that my wife loves the pop and anti-judder effects on the new Sony BraviaXBR4, which is also in the budget mix (just to complicate the decision somewhat!). When folks talk about 'dark room' performance, LCD vs plasma, does the room have to be REALLY dark, or would a typical set of drawn curtains fare just fine with a plasma?
The other wildcard in all of this is that my wife loves the pop and anti-judder effects on the new Sony BraviaXBR4, which is also in the budget mix (just to complicate the decision somewhat!). When folks talk about 'dark room' performance, LCD vs plasma, does the room have to be REALLY dark, or would a typical set of drawn curtains fare just fine with a plasma?
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If you want to watch hockey, stick with the plasma. The XBR4 is a good set, but even with all of its tech, it still isn't enough to overcome the motion handling shortcomings of an LCD.
Also, get a good HD source. There is more HD hockey out there than you might think. NHL Network HD, HDNet, many of the FSNs, and NHL Center Ice all broadcast hockey games in HD. Also, I don't know if Versus still carries hockey games, but if they do, I'd guess they're in HD since some HD providers are carrying Versus HD (DirecTV, I know for sure, since that's my provider). Take it from a guy who HATES watching hockey on TV (although, there's nothing like actually being at a hockey game; the speed is amazing), hockey in HD is, by itself, worth the price of admission.
A typical set of drawn curtains should fare just fine with the plasma. If you click on the link in my signature, you'll see my potentially disasterous room layout (bank of windows on West wall opposite TV). The light is rarely an issue; and when it is, simply closing the blinds eliminates it. And, I have a Panny 58pz700u which gets a bad rap as being dim; if I had it set to its brightest settings, I'd be blind. It's plenty bright for even my room; even though, I occasionally have to control the room lighting.
Good luck!
--Mav
Also, get a good HD source. There is more HD hockey out there than you might think. NHL Network HD, HDNet, many of the FSNs, and NHL Center Ice all broadcast hockey games in HD. Also, I don't know if Versus still carries hockey games, but if they do, I'd guess they're in HD since some HD providers are carrying Versus HD (DirecTV, I know for sure, since that's my provider). Take it from a guy who HATES watching hockey on TV (although, there's nothing like actually being at a hockey game; the speed is amazing), hockey in HD is, by itself, worth the price of admission.
A typical set of drawn curtains should fare just fine with the plasma. If you click on the link in my signature, you'll see my potentially disasterous room layout (bank of windows on West wall opposite TV). The light is rarely an issue; and when it is, simply closing the blinds eliminates it. And, I have a Panny 58pz700u which gets a bad rap as being dim; if I had it set to its brightest settings, I'd be blind. It's plenty bright for even my room; even though, I occasionally have to control the room lighting.
Good luck!
--Mav
it only wins in size.
the Kuro has better PQ, just check Home Theater mag this month instead of consumer reports.
Home Theater Magazine had a faceoff/comparision with a sony 60" sxrd, JVC LCD, Sharp 47" LCD, Mits 57" DLP, Samsung 61" LED DLP, Panasonic 50" 50pz750u and the Pioneer Kuro 5080. 6 current and various tech 1080p displays and one Kuro 768p plasma. And the Pioneer Kuro 5080 768P beat them all out! All of the displays were calibrated and they didn't even need the extra settings/features of the PRO1150, the 5080 beat them all out and this was even before the $1000 price drop
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that would have put the Pioneer even further ahead in the overall scorecard rankings.
the current panny processor and glass tech is not capable of producing the deeper blacks and higher contrast that gives the Kuro the best PQ on the market today. But the panny is a good display and that extra 8" is a huge difference.
it only wins in size.
the Kuro has better PQ, just check Home Theater mag this month instead of consumer reports.
Home Theater Magazine had a faceoff/comparision with a sony 60" sxrd, JVC LCD, Sharp 47" LCD, Mits 57" DLP, Samsung 61" LED DLP, Panasonic 50" 50pz750u and the Pioneer Kuro 5080. 6 current and various tech 1080p displays and one Kuro 768p plasma. And the Pioneer Kuro 5080 768P beat them all out! All of the displays were calibrated and they didn't even need the extra settings/features of the PRO1150, the 5080 beat them all out and this was even before the $1000 price drop
the current panny processor and glass tech is not capable of producing the deeper blacks and higher contrast that gives the Kuro the best PQ on the market today. But the panny is a good display and that extra 8" is a huge difference.
Another possibility would be to use an articulating wall mount to bring the display closer. The link below contains my summary of how using a Sanus articulating mount impacted the size appearance of my 5080:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post12855768
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post12855768
Once again, thanks for all the comments. Is there anything in the Kuro with respect to motion smoothing that differentiates the two? My wife does like the smooth motion in the SonyXBR (antijudder), and if there was something comparable in the Pioneer Kuro and NOT the Panasonic, that might help my decision. I've read a bit about the motion smoothing in the Kuro but less in the Panasonic - does the Kuro motion smoothing have as dramatic an effect as the Sony/Samsung motion processing?
Anyway, hard to beat the immersive effect of the larger screen (and I'm not sure that I am wall mounting, although the preceding suggestion intrigues me....)
Anyway, hard to beat the immersive effect of the larger screen (and I'm not sure that I am wall mounting, although the preceding suggestion intrigues me....)
I have a Panasonic 58PX600U that I love, and was tempted by all the Super Bowl TV sales to pick up a second flat screen for my den. I can control the light in my basement where I keep the 58" so I'm not concerned about screen glare. For the den, however, I was leaning LCD because I was concerned that the big windows would be a problem. But being a huge hockey fan, I was disappointed the way LCDs handle motion. Just standing in BB watching the HD loop you can see judder.
At this point, I may just wait until next year to see what the next generation brings, but I'm still somewhat tempted to get a Pioneer 5080. I've seen some incredible deals on this TV and can even finance it for 2 or 3 years interest free.
I have a Panasonic 58PX600U that I love, and was tempted by all the Super Bowl TV sales to pick up a second flat screen for my den. I can control the light in my basement where I keep the 58" so I'm not concerned about screen glare. For the den, however, I was leaning LCD because I was concerned that the big windows would be a problem. But being a huge hockey fan, I was disappointed the way LCDs handle motion. Just standing in BB watching the HD loop you can see judder.
At this point, I may just wait until next year to see what the next generation brings, but I'm still somewhat tempted to get a Pioneer 5080. I've seen some incredible deals on this TV and can even finance it for 2 or 3 years interest free.
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Very true.
Very true.
I guess my wife is reacting more to the super/ultra smoothed out effect on the Sony XBRs that makes the film stuff look like video (e.g., motion smoothing set to high) - the soap opera effect, some have called it. You can see it in BB sometimes - freakishly smoothed out. Do either of these tvs have that sort of effect available, and does it produce the same visual experience?
I dunno, do you really want your wife to dictate that all movies will look like soap operas for the next X years??
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I personally can't stand the "flat" look of LCD's -- even though they are really bright, it always looks a little "digital" to me, no depth and richness like plasmas.
I just went to a local Best Buy / Magnolia at lunch today. They had the Kuro 5080 and 6010 directly adjacent to the 58pz700U and two nice 1080p 52" LCD's (from Sharp and Samsung). The LCD's give that initial "pop" because they are tuned so freaking bright, but when you would see a closeup of skin, like on a tight face shot when someone is talking, just the depth and richness of the skin tones was so obviously superior on the plasmas. I love that rich, natural look, but to each his own.
Frankly, looking at the 58" 700U, the 5080, and the 6010, I couldn't see a lick of difference between 1080p and 768p, even at 5 feet. That wouldn't influence my decision at all.
The question is pretty simple: do you NEED to have the blackest blacks? Even under the bright lights of Best Buy, when the scenes would fade to black or when they would show a dark scene, the difference was fairly obvious. I thought this gave the Pio's extra richness and saturation, especially with skin tones. However, other than that, you'd have to look really really hard to see much difference. They are all excellent displays, it's a matter of budget vs. size vs. black levels.
In the darkened Magnolia section, they had an 1150 (768p Elite Pio) next to a 50" PZ750U, and the difference was still there, but again, they both looked awesome. You will probably be very happy either way.
How far will you be sitting? That could make a difference too. The size boost may be worth it, as a 58" is WAY bigger than a 50".
PS - as far as the whites on plasmas, no, they will never be as bright as LCD's, but when you are in your home in the more normal lighting of your living room, I highly doubt you will ever consider a plasma "dim". Do you really want to stare at a shining bright light all the time?
I just went to a local Best Buy / Magnolia at lunch today. They had the Kuro 5080 and 6010 directly adjacent to the 58pz700U and two nice 1080p 52" LCD's (from Sharp and Samsung). The LCD's give that initial "pop" because they are tuned so freaking bright, but when you would see a closeup of skin, like on a tight face shot when someone is talking, just the depth and richness of the skin tones was so obviously superior on the plasmas. I love that rich, natural look, but to each his own.
Frankly, looking at the 58" 700U, the 5080, and the 6010, I couldn't see a lick of difference between 1080p and 768p, even at 5 feet. That wouldn't influence my decision at all.
The question is pretty simple: do you NEED to have the blackest blacks? Even under the bright lights of Best Buy, when the scenes would fade to black or when they would show a dark scene, the difference was fairly obvious. I thought this gave the Pio's extra richness and saturation, especially with skin tones. However, other than that, you'd have to look really really hard to see much difference. They are all excellent displays, it's a matter of budget vs. size vs. black levels.
In the darkened Magnolia section, they had an 1150 (768p Elite Pio) next to a 50" PZ750U, and the difference was still there, but again, they both looked awesome. You will probably be very happy either way.
How far will you be sitting? That could make a difference too. The size boost may be worth it, as a 58" is WAY bigger than a 50".
PS - as far as the whites on plasmas, no, they will never be as bright as LCD's, but when you are in your home in the more normal lighting of your living room, I highly doubt you will ever consider a plasma "dim". Do you really want to stare at a shining bright light all the time?
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people keep refering to the whites on lcds but I'm starting to think that they are a little fake. Just got back from a sharks game and the ice was not white. It was grayish. The other Dallas team had white jerseys that looked super white compared to the gray ice. So I'm starting to think that plasma does represent the ice quite nicely as this gray ice was seen with my own eyes. I much prefer the less blinding whites with plasma.
batpig - the viewing distance will be in the 9-10 foot range, and, just from my experience in stores, the substantially extra size made the tv seem more enveloping at that distance. If the PQ on the Panasonic is not vastly worse than the smaller Pioneer, then the extra size seems to make more of a difference to me. Brightness should be fine on the Panasonic, particularly given that evening viewing would be 80% of use.....
As long as you don't look at the Panny next to a Pioneer, it's great. In a fairly small sound room at work, there's a big azz 65pz750u on the wall. Directly opposite it (about 13') there's an pro1150HD. Size matters till you the difference in the picture. The levels and shades of black on the Pioneer smokes the Panny. Sometimes i walk in there intentionally looking only at the huge Panasonic to be immersed...
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Not only on size,thats just a benefit for the price...Panasonic has a very nice PQ,features such as the SD card...PQ on the Panasonic is going to be better than what anyone owns now,since flat panels are generally made with better PQ year after year,also some pople still have 27 or 32inch CRT's, and when you get them home your not going to see a difference in the sets since there not going to be side by side..Your going to like the PQ of the Panasonic since its a great set and going to notice the size more then which one was better in the store?Some people are just way to picky on PQ ,its a TV and there alll great pictures...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dssturbo1 /forum/post/12917339
it only wins in size.
the Kuro has better PQ, just check Home Theater mag this month instead of consumer reports.
Home Theater Magazine had a faceoff/comparision with a sony 60" sxrd, JVC LCD, Sharp 47" LCD, Mits 57" DLP, Samsung 61" LED DLP, Panasonic 50" 50pz750u and the Pioneer Kuro 5080. 6 current and various tech 1080p displays and one Kuro 768p plasma. And the Pioneer Kuro 5080 768P beat them all out! All of the displays were calibrated and they didn't even need the extra settings/features of the PRO1150, the 5080 beat them all out and this was even before the $1000 price dropthat would have put the Pioneer even further ahead in the overall scorecard rankings.![]()
the current panny processor and glass tech is not capable of producing the deeper blacks and higher contrast that gives the Kuro the best PQ on the market today. But the panny is a good display and that extra 8" is a huge difference.
Not only on size,thats just a benefit for the price...Panasonic has a very nice PQ,features such as the SD card...PQ on the Panasonic is going to be better than what anyone owns now,since flat panels are generally made with better PQ year after year,also some pople still have 27 or 32inch CRT's, and when you get them home your not going to see a difference in the sets since there not going to be side by side..Your going to like the PQ of the Panasonic since its a great set and going to notice the size more then which one was better in the store?Some people are just way to picky on PQ ,its a TV and there alll great pictures...
Agreed. The Pioneer has superior picture quality in every way, but another 8 inches would be pretty awesome!
At 10 feet or so, either TV would be cool, but the 58" would be more enveloping.
Compare side by side, but take them both out of their "torch" modes. Put them both in Movie or User/Custom and adjust to your liking. Then compare and take home the one that you feel is the best.
Enjoy!
Agreed. The Pioneer has superior picture quality in every way, but another 8 inches would be pretty awesome!
At 10 feet or so, either TV would be cool, but the 58" would be more enveloping.
Compare side by side, but take them both out of their "torch" modes. Put them both in Movie or User/Custom and adjust to your liking. Then compare and take home the one that you feel is the best.
Enjoy!
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