[Martyr]

Can anyone help me with model numbers and manufacturers of fifth generation terrestrial HD receivers? I am looking for one to replace my E*6000 and hopefully do away with the fan noise and the constant dropouts etc. I have done several searches here with little success, and I am still looking.

I contacted a local distributor for E*, and they want almost $800 for a model 811, and I hear they are not any better than the 6000. E* wants to replace the module for the 6000 and charge me $60.00, but I'm not that happy with its OTA reception. and was hoping to find something with better holding power. I also don't mind giving up my satellite since their HD presentation is pretty slim.

I might consider VOOM, but I don't know anything about their receiver and how well it holds a signal.

 

[bfdtv]

Martyr,


Fifth-generation set-top boxes aren't available yet. They are expected 1H 2005.


If you want a 4th generation, check out the LG 4200A.

 

[CKNA]

People think that 5th generation OTA chip is some kind of magic pill. It is not. The only time it will improve anything is if the problem is severe multipath. It will not help pick up stations with weak signals any better than what is out there now. The best way to improve reception is to put up an OTA antenna.


VOOM receiver OTA tuner is the most sensitive of any receivers I ever had. It works very well.

 

[Martyr]

Thanks for getting back to me. I do have an OTA antenna (CM4228) with a preamp and rotor. I get good signals on most stations (75 to 90), but I get a lot of dropouts and pixilation. CBS is closest (about 25 miles) and has the strongest signal but does not do HD. I have to go 80 miles away to get CBS in HD (55% signal strength), and that is the most stable signal once my receiver locks in. The other HD broadcasters (NBC & ABC) are both about 36 miles away. I should say I have a lot of trees around here, and I expect the signal lock to be better once the leaves are all gone, but I have not seen any improvement yet and they are more that half gone.


I contacted LG a month ago, and the person who e-mailed back did not know what I was talking about, but told me to keep visiting my retailer. I also read in the November issue of AV Ultimate that Samsung's "fifth generation high-definition terrestrial tuner" the SIR-T451 was announced to the press last July. I contacted one of the mail order companies who told me they would be receiving them by November 1. So, since I am in the market anyway, I thought I might as well look at the latest equipment.


VOOM has always been intriguing to me, and if I can pull in my locals consistently, I will give them strong consideration. It just seems sad that we go to this trouble and expense and cannot get supported by strong and consistent signals. By the way, I keep reading that VOOM and E* will get together, so maybe I should just wait and let Charlie GIVE me a VOOM receiver.

 

[bnewt]

I saw the Samsung T451 @ CC on Sunday. Much smaller in size compared to the T351. Both were on display.

 

[CKNA]

Quote:

Originally posted by Martyr Thanks for getting back to me. I do have an OTA antenna (CM4228) with a preamp and rotor. I get good signals on most stations (75 to 90), but I get a lot of dropouts and pixilation. CBS is closest (about 25 miles) and has the strongest signal but does not do HD. I have to go 80 miles away to get CBS in HD (55% signal strength), and that is the most stable signal once my receiver locks in. The other HD broadcasters (NBC & ABC) are both about 36 miles away. I should say I have a lot of trees around here, and I expect the signal lock to be better once the leaves are all gone, but I have not seen any improvement yet and they are more that half gone. I contacted LG a month ago, and the person who e-mailed back did not know what I was talking about, but told me to keep visiting my retailer. I also read in the November issue of AV Ultimate that Samsung's "fifth generation high-definition terrestrial tuner" the SIR-T451 was announced to the press last July. I contacted one of the mail order companies who told me they would be receiving them by November 1. So, since I am in the market anyway, I thought I might as well look at the latest equipment. VOOM has always been intriguing to me, and if I can pull in my locals consistently, I will give them strong consideration. It just seems sad that we go to this trouble and expense and cannot get supported by strong and consistent signals. By the way, I keep reading that VOOM and E* will get together, so maybe I should just wait and let Charlie GIVE me a VOOM receiver.

I used to have E* and 6000 receiver. While it was ok for satellite its OTA tuner was one of the worst. It had dropouts even though my other receivers did not. As I said VOOM OTA is very good. It will be much better than E* 6000.

 

[TheWarden]

Quote:

Originally posted by CKNA It will not help pick up stations with weak signals any better than what is out there now.

Really? This article:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...N_Zenith.shtml


disagrees with you. It specifically talks about the new chipset "[being] far more immune to the cliff effect." It also talks about how its design is "focused on indoor reception and ease-of-reception with simple antennas."


If that's not helping you pick up weak signals, what is it?

 

[CKNA]

Quote:

Originally posted by TheWarden Really? This article: http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...N_Zenith.shtml disagrees with you. It specifically talks about the new chipset "[being] far more immune to the cliff effect." It also talks about how its design is "focused on indoor reception and ease-of-reception with simple antennas." If that's not helping you pick up weak signals, what is it?

Cliff effect means that picture is perfect and then it drops out. This is caused by multipath. That is why 5th generation chip works better with simple indoor antenna. If the signal is weak and you can't get good lock, this chip will not change that.

 

[TheWarden]

Quote:

Originally posted by CKNA Cliff effect means that picture is perfect and then it drops out. This is caused by multipath. That is why 5th generation chip works better with simple indoor antenna. If the signal is weak and you can't get good lock, this chip will not change that.

You're right in the definition of cliff effect (you get a picture or you don't). You're correct, but not complete, in that it's caused by multipath. It can also be the result of a weak signal.


It all comes down to the amount of signal that you need to decode the data. The 5th gen chips lower that level. If I'm in a fringe area and I have a receiver that needs a 60% signal strength to get a picture, if I'm at 55%, I'm not getting a picture. If the new chips lower my needed strength, which they are going to do, below 55%, I get a picture REGARDLESS of the reason that I'm getting less than optimal signal strength (multipath, weak signal, whatever).

 

[Schlotkins]

We shall see soon enough... I'm sure the multipath improvment is better than the weak signal, but I'm sure weak signal areas will have at least SOME improvement.


Chris

 

[RJRSW]

I talked to LG and US DIgital today and they informed me that they are expecting to start to roll out the 5th generation STB's in April for LG and June for US Digital at the earliest. The other earliest one other than LG itself will be the US Digital that will be using the LG decoder chip and will be sold by WalMart starting in June. These dates were from LG and US Digital themselves.

 

[inky blacks]

Quote:

Originally posted by RJRSW I talked to LG and US DIgital today and they informed me that they are expecting to start to roll out the 5th generation STB's in April for LG and June for US Digital at the earliest. The other earliest one other than LG itself will be the US Digital that will be using the LG decoder chip and will be sold by WalMart starting in June. These dates were from LG and US Digital themselves.

Rats!


That means I will have to spend all winter moving around my Silver Sensor and sometimes having to switch to analogue reception to get CBS at all. A few weeks back LG told me January 2005. They must be having delays in manufacturing. By then I would expect the price to be lower, however.


IB

 

[jm_etue]

Any tentative specs on the 5th gen LG's?

Hard Drive?

CableCard maybe?

Firewire out for DVHS?

 

[hdtvpete]

I am completing a test of the new LG DU-42PY10X 42-inch integrated plasma TV. THis CableCARD set, which was showcased at Cedia Expo 2004, is supposed to have the 5th-gen chipsets inside.


However, I found its multipath correction essentially identical to that of a 4th-gen LG LST3100A set-top box, with both running a channel scan off the same rooftop antenna in an A/B test.


Using a Silver Sensor and bow tie indoors, the integrated plasma TV picked up three more DTV stations missed by the LST3100A. But I can't attribute that to 5th gen performance. It could have been varying conditions or some enhancements to the 4th-gen circutry in the plasma TV.


I have not been able to get a clear answer on whether this plasma TV does have 5th gen front end chips in it. I would suspect "no" based on my own multipath tests.


Some indications from LG are that the ATSC receiver design is still basically 4th generation, and I would have to agree with that asessment.


PP

 

[hdtvpete]

Quote:

Originally posted by jm_etue Any tentative specs on the 5th gen LG's? Hard Drive? CableCard maybe? Firewire out for DVHS?

Yes, the new integrated digital TVs will all have CableCARD slots. I just tested four of them and three had a pair of IEEE1394 connections, each of which easily recognized my JVC and Mitsubishi D-VHS decks.


None of these sets have hard drives internally.


PP

 

[RJRSW]

Quote:

Originally posted by hdtvpete IHowever, I found its multipath correction essentially identical to that of a 4th-gen LG LST3100A set-top box, with both running a channel scan off the same rooftop antenna in an A/B test.

I had inquired both by phone and by email of LG on which of the OTA tuners had the forth generation decoder chip and the answer I received were that only the LG LST-4200A and LST-4600A units have the 4th generation chip. They told me that the earliest that any of their equipment would have the new 5th generation chip in it would be April 2005. The 3100, 3410 and 3510 models all have the 3rd generation chip according to their tech people.


I also asked being that the first number in the model number happens to be the same as the chip generation if that first number designates what chip is used and the answer was NO they told me it only had to do with the model year designation it just was a coincidence that it came out that way.

 

[Rich Peterson]

Quote:

I am completing a test of the new LG DU-42PY10X 42-inch integrated plasma TV. THis CableCARD set, which was showcased at Cedia Expo 2004, is supposed to have the 5th-gen chipsets inside.

Quote:

I have not been able to get a clear answer on whether this plasma TV does have 5th gen front end chips in it. I would suspect "no" based on my own multipath tests.

I suspect the answer is "no" also. Where did you get the info that the plasma had the 5th gen chip? From CEDIA? What was the source?


I ask because I am doubtful the info is accurate. If it really is LG's 5th gen chipset, then that would be very big news.

 

[hdtvpete]

Depending on whom you talk to at LG / Zenith, you can get very different answers.


The LST3100A I have here is a late production run and I have been told it is 4th gen 8VSB by LG, but again there is no hard and fast way to confirm short of disassembling it. So, I'll assume you are correct and it is 3rd gen. That would explain the slight differences between the performance of the 42inch plasma and tuner.


The DU-42PY10X is almost certainly 4th gen with its performance, which is quite good and allows reception of some DTv signals aroud here that are almost 90 degrees off the side of my rooftop antenna. But it can't correct for really severe multipath as observed on my spectrum analyzer. These signals, I think, would be within the equalization range of the 5th gen front ends, based on the demos I saw at the ATSC meeting in March.


Original source for 5th gen info was from a company executive at Cedia Expo.


PP

 

[inky blacks]

I have a Toshiba 51HX93 with built in tuner. I think it has a LG HDTV/QAM tuner chip. So you would say it is probably a 3rd generation LG chip and not even a 4th generation chip?


IB

 

[RU Geekman]

Quote:

Originally posted by Martyr Can anyone help me with model numbers and manufacturers of fifth generation terrestrial HD receivers?

Not all such receivers are created equal. Just because a manufacturer says its receiver is "fifth-generation" doesn't mean it has superior reception capabilities. Today, four companies make the bulk of the 8-VSB demodulator chips that are the heart of such receivers: LG/Zenith, ATI, Broadcom and Oren. Another one on the horizon is LINX Electronics, a company founded by ex-Zenith engineers. LINX has developed a technology supposedly even more multipath 'ghost-friendly' than LG/Zenith's, which it has appropriately named "CASPER." A receiver with this chip would not be fifth-generation but might very well outperform LG/Zenith's 5G chip. While LG/Zenith holds key patents that other companies must license in order to build such chipsets, these other firms also have their own proprietary approaches and algorithms. And as the excerpt below makes clear, not all of them are rushing to license LG/Zenith's latest chip architecture. In terms of HDTV and STB manufacturers, Toshiba was one of the first to license LG/Zenith's 5G technology. Expect to see it in their products next year. Hisense, a Chinese plasma maker, will be selling a receiver with an LG/Zenith 5G chip in Walmart next year. They currently sell tuners with ATI chips. And, of course, LG/Zenith's upcoming 55" LCD television (DU-55LZ80) will feature this technology as a prominent selling point.

Quote:

From TVtechnology.com Consequently, the companies that make the chips are at various stages of progress. LINX, while renowned for its battle against multipath, is just now getting its technology into single-chip form. Zenith's TV-making competitors aren't flocking to buy its chips, and Broadcom is busy updating its technology, so ATI owns a big chunk of the demodulator market. ATI's customer list includes Sony, Sharp, Philips, Panasonic, Samsung and Hisense, maker of the USDTV receivers. (USDTV is the over-the-air, multichannel service launched earlier this year in the Salt Lake City area.) [Editorial note: USDTV will have receivers available next June featuring LG/Zenith's fifth-generation 8-VSB chipset instead of the ATI chipset.] Meanwhile, LINX has hooked up with Thomson, which will integrate that company's chip into TVs starting next year. Zenith, a division of Korea's LG Electronics, is preparing to roll out products containing the fifth generation of its demodulator technology. Generationally speaking, Zenith's first 8-VSB demodulator was a 19-by-24-inch box that came to be known as the "blue rack." The blue rack defined the ATSC reception baseline. Subsequent generations squeezed the blue rack onto a single chip, improved upon performance, and incorporated a digital architecture. (Generations 1-3 processed the signal in the analog domain; the switch to digital came in G4.)