[Ronnie 1.8]

I have a good DVD player (Denon DVD-3930) with 6-ch output for DVDA and SACD. It includes the full speaker setup settings, incl a 10db subwoofer boost.


My Denon AVR also has an option for 6-ch subwoofer boost (5db, 10db or 15db).


Is it true that if I choose to boost the subwoofer (to account for the lack of LFE in DVDA and SACD) via the AVR, that the AVR would need to convert the signal to digital to apply the bass management, then back again to analog? If I want the signal to remain analog, is it true that I would need to boost the subwoofer via my player, and not the AVR?


Thanks.

 

[BGLeduc]

That should not be required, as a single channel boost can surely be dealt with in the analog domain.


All Denon AVR's and all MC Universal players have included the switchable boost for quite some time. My 3910 has it.


You can do it in the player or AVR, whichever you prefer. There should be no sonic penalty. Of course, you would want to run a test disc with appropriate test tones first to decide if you need to apply the boost.


Brian

 

[ekb]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 /forum/post/15447696


Is it true that if I choose to boost the subwoofer (to account for the lack of LFE in DVDA and SACD) via the AVR,

I believe that DVDA and SACD can have LFE and the need for the boost is because the LFE is recorded low, not because it's not there.

Quote:
that the AVR would need to convert the signal to digital to apply the bass management, then back again to analog?

The bass management should be done in only one place - either the DVD player or the receiver. If all you are doing is boosting the LFE in the receiver, then the BM is being done in the DVD player.


Ed

 

[Ronnie 1.8]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc /forum/post/15447772


That should not be required, as a single channel boost can surely be dealt with in the analog domain.


All Denon AVR's and all MC Universal players have included the switchable boost for quite some time. My 3910 has it.


You can do it in the player or AVR, whichever you prefer. There should be no sonic penalty. Of course, you would want to run a test disc with appropriate test tones first to decide if you need to apply the boost.


Brian

Brian, it is not "whichever you prefer". There are specific reasons why one would choose to have the lfe boosted in the player or the avr. Here is the quote from Audioholic's Gene DellaSala that prompted my thread, "Some Receivers do offer bass management and/or digital delay compensation on their analog six channel inputs, but at the expense of converting the analog signal back to digital to process and then back to analog again. This is usually undesirable as it will result in lost resolution or added noise."


The full discussion is here:

http://www.audioholics.com/education...-for-dvd-audio


What I'm looking for is, will the AVR first convert the signal to digital before adding the lfe boost.


Boosting the lfe must be considered part of bass management, and as far as I know, the signal must first be converted to digital before any bm can be performed by the avr - which includes boosting the lfe.

 

[BGLeduc]

Sorry, but I stand my my initial reply, and will further say that it is highly unlikely that an AVR would digitize the sub channel input to allow for a switchable boost, if it has no other BM or distance compensation functions available.


And your AVR, as do the vast majority of AVR's out there, lacks ANY BM on the 5.1 analog ins.


But since this is an issue of great concern to you, and since your gear allows you to apply the boost on either side, why no try it both ways and report your findings? Its not going to hurt anything.


Cheers.


Brian

 

[Ronnie 1.8]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc /forum/post/15450641


Sorry, but I stand my my initial reply, and will further say that it is highly unlikely that an AVR would digitize the sub channel input to allow for a switchable boost, if it has no other BM or distance compensation functions available.


And your AVR, as do the vast majority of AVR's out there, lacks ANY BM on the 5.1 analog ins.


But since this is an issue of great concern to you, and since your gear allows you to apply the boost on either side, why no try it both ways and report your findings? Its not going to hurt anything.


Cheers.


Brian

You're right, and like one hears many times in different forms, it all comes down to what sounds good to 'you'. But, I want to know the proper way to do it, even if I can't determine a difference. There is a "right" way to do it, and I'm trying to find out which component should be giving the lfe channel the boost.


I seem to recall that 15db is the ideal boost, but then why does the player only allow a 10db boost? I went through this years ago, and had my avr provide the boost, but I don't recall why I had these settings.


Thinking about it a bit, if I am playing a DVDA, and boost my subwoofer volume, my avr isn't then turning the signal digital for that sub volume bump (as far as I know!), which supports your thought that the avr doesn't need to digitize the signal to bump the subwoofer channel.


It'd be great if someone that knew for certain would reply. Thanks for your thoughts. I'll post as I learn more.

 

[Steve.]

The Outlaw ICBM is the best way to apply crossovers to 5.1 or 6.1 analog sources... if you can find one. I regret selling mine, I'm mainly 2.1 right now but I will add surround again in the future and will probably miss it when I do. I used mine for a stereo crossover and it worked great, I added a Velodyne SMS 1 so I just used the fixed high pass within the SMS.

 

[Ronnie 1.8]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc /forum/post/15450641


But since this is an issue of great concern to you, and since your gear allows you to apply the boost on either side, why no try it both ways and report your findings? Its not going to hurt anything.


Cheers.


Brian

Well, if I were given a blind test, I'd honestly have no idea if the avr or player was boosting the subwoofer. I have the speakers leveled in both the avr and player, and via my Velodyne DD12 have a wonderfully flat response from 25hz-80hz, and it sounds great both ways. I did, however, set my avr ext in boost to "zero", and turned my player's 10db boost to "on". To level my speakers via my player, I had to set my other 5 speakers to -3db (subwoofer is set to 10db, a 13db delta, which is expected). I find it curious that the 5 speaker's level via the player are all relatively level, while my avr's speaker level settings show no pattern of any kind. Side note, I wonder if my player's speaker levels are a function of the avr's speaker levels..


In any case, I'm keeping all bass mgmt settings within my player (for DVDA/SACD), whether or not subwoofer boost is considered bass mgmt, and whether or not I can hear a difference. This way I get a balanced bass level, and I am certain the signal is remaining analog once it leaves my player.

Cheers,

Ron