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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I'm looking at purchasing a 6600GT card for a new PC (AMD X2 3800+) and from reports on this board it looks like the 6600GT has the best VMR9 implementation but there are problems with tearing at high resolution.


Can anyone confirm if the 6600GT will have tearing using 1050x1400 (or near) resolution? I'm about to buy a new video card and unsure about the Nvidia vs ATI choice. My environment and needs are:

- I have a LCOS projector so am looking for a sharp, color rich picture that will be run over DVI

- Software will be a mix of MCE and zoomplayer with ffdshow. I like the Dscaler decoder but am open to using the Nvidia decoder if the video quality is similar to Dscalar.

- I like VMR9 but prefer not to use exclusive mode if I can help it.

- I use a 40 foot DVI cable that works fine with my projector using an older PC with a 9600 card, and I have heard that the TDMI (DVI) transmitters are stronger on the ATI cards than the Nvidia, which may mean that I may get sparklies if I use a Nvidia card?

- I also want to run dual monitors, one for the main projector, the other for a small LCD touchscreen in the case (running at a lower resolution).

- I want to play games with the PC but am not looking for extreme fps.


I'm looking at buying the Gigabyte 6600GT with the passive cooler. Any ideas what card would be good for my needs? Thanks.


Regards.

Dean
 

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I am very happy with my 6600GT in my A64 3400 (754) @ 2650MHZ setup. I am resizing to 3x so that makes the image much bigger and I have no problems at all. After many many comparisons between Zoom Player and Dscaler vs TheaterTek (both using ffdshow) I found the image easily better (sharper and more detailed) with TheaterTek and it has smoother movement also. Ive got no tearing at all and using Reclock also helps a lot for butter smooth action. I know TT is more expensive but to me its worth it. I used to be a dscaler fan (check my old post) but now I am a TT convert.

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Hi Luis. I have a 6600GT and I'm connecting it to my Toshiba 34HF84 CRT using component output and I'm running powerstrip to get it to fill the screen properly. I have run it @ 1280x720, and also 1024x576.


Games configured for widescreen output look good, but text and icons on the desktop look bloody awfull! Another problem is when playing DVD's I get an error that I have to lower my screen resolution and it simply will not play.


Reading your post about Zoom Player, Dscaler and TheaterTek, I'm lost. I'm presuming that I need some software in conjunction with MS MediaPlayer to scale the image properly for HD.


Here's my question, what do I need to do to improve the Windows desktop appearance and get my DVD's to play on my Toshiba TV? Sorry if this seems like a newbie question.


Thanks.
 

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Honestly I wish I could help but I have no idea. I would suggest that you use the Nvidia control panel to change resolution and timings as I dont think you need powerstrip. I am running a 854x480 resolution which is not common using the Nvidia setup. I think you may need to start a new thread about your problem.

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys.


Do you run your 6600 with VMR9? Apparently the tearing happens with VMR9 forcing you to use exclusive desktop mode if you use renderless.


Do you have long DVI lengths?


I suppose my questions imply that the 6600GT does have a great picture but will it work with my native resolution 1050 x 1400 VMR9 renderless over a 40 foot DVI cable?


Regards,

Dean
 

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deandob,

Looks like you've done your homework. Everything that you asked for especially VMR9 rendering and ffdshow EQUALS ATi. No tearing at high res, Vmr9 rendering for dual monitor use and ffdshow w/ makes Pure Video useless.

The minimum is a 9800pro but if you want frame rates for games, then a X800XL will suffice.

I recently upgraded my 9800pro to a X800XL to speedup my games and 3D apps. I didn't see much PQ improvement since my 9800pro has given me stunning 1080i PQ for the last 2 years.

Now if you run MCE,720p, no ffdshow, full screen renderless, then Nvidia may work for you.

But for tweakability on the fly, ATi baby!
 

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miketech: awesome response....all in a nutshell....and ALL true from my experience here with ATI and Nvidia. As you know I have been using MCE for a while now. Thanks.


Jim
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by viffer5
Hi Luis. I have a 6600GT and I'm connecting it to my Toshiba 34HF84 CRT using component output and I'm running powerstrip to get it to fill the screen properly. I have run it @ 1280x720, and also 1024x576.


Games configured for widescreen output look good, but text and icons on the desktop look bloody awfull! Another problem is when playing DVD's I get an error that I have to lower my screen resolution and it simply will not play.


Reading your post about Zoom Player, Dscaler and TheaterTek, I'm lost. I'm presuming that I need some software in conjunction with MS MediaPlayer to scale the image properly for HD.


Here's my question, what do I need to do to improve the Windows desktop appearance and get my DVD's to play on my Toshiba TV? Sorry if this seems like a newbie question.


Thanks.
Sounds like the much dreaded Macrovision resrtiction. ATi and Nvidia's component output for Macrovision copy protected DVD's are limited to 480p. Don't ask me why.

You need an app like AnyDVD or DVD43 to remove Macrovision on the fly. This way you can upconvert your DVD to your desired resolution. You can also rip the DVD to your HDD w/ macrovision removed to view DVD above 480p. DVI/VGA does not have this issue.

Now for your desktop, if your TV is a 1080i TV, then you would probably use 848x480p or something like that then hot switch to 1776x1000i (for low overscan compared to 1920x1080i) for DVD/HDTV. Again, I'm assuming you have a 1080i TV.
 

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Hi Dean,


Have recently bought a XFX 6600GT dual dvi card. My experiene:


1. 10m DVI-D cable would not work, but was OK with old ATI9700.


2. MPC crashed when set to VMR9 renderless.


3. In Zoom, VMR9 renderless was "crippled". Exclusive mode was OK, but could not get reclock to work.


Not sure if 2 & 3 were OS related. Had directx9 Aug version installed and all tests were done with 1080i/p ts.


Will give purevideo a try.


Hope that helps. Regards.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketech
deandob,

Looks like you've done your homework. Everything that you asked for especially VMR9 rendering and ffdshow EQUALS ATi. No tearing at high res, Vmr9 rendering for dual monitor use and ffdshow w/ makes Pure Video useless.

The minimum is a 9800pro but if you want frame rates for games, then a X800XL will suffice.

I recently upgraded my 9800pro to a X800XL to speedup my games and 3D apps. I didn't see much PQ improvement since my 9800pro has given me stunning 1080i PQ for the last 2 years.

Now if you run MCE,720p, no ffdshow, full screen renderless, then Nvidia may work for you.

But for tweakability on the fly, ATi baby!
I'm not familiar with the X800XL - what is the situation with noise/heat generation? One of the attractions of 6600-based cards is the (relative) coolness of the chips. It's fan noise rather than heat itself that concerns me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
David, you are right, fan noise is important, as is picture quality, and by both accounts the Gigabyte 6600GT with the heatsink sounds ideal, but judging from other posts, the 6600GT may not work over my long DVI cable (my ATI 9600 is fine) and needs a renderless exclusive VMR9 mode. I also have a 9800 in another PC that has been working well for a couple of years - but I'm interested in the reports of better picture quality from Nvidia so I'm willing to take a bet here. I have a pretty powerful CPU (AMD X2 3800+) so am wondering if the extra CPU power and a resolution less than 1080i will avoid the tearing issues?


I currently have a winning bid on 6600GT on ebay but now after this thread I'm thinking again (which may be too late!). However I suppose I can test it and if it does not work then I can always resell the card.....


What is the fastest fanless ATI video card? I'd prefer to buy a fanless model rather than tack on aftermarket quiet cooling.


Regards,

Dean
 

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The X800XL has a fairly quiet fan compared to the 9800pro. Mine has a waterblock in it now so it's a non-issue for me.
 

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i got a 6600 and will be going back to ati. certain things I do in ffdshow add a small green bar to the upper left side of hte picture. I think the ati gave better color depth too.
 

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I had a 6600GT and switched to a Radeon 9800 Pro because of tearing issues. My experience was the same as many others here. I could never get tear-free DVD playback at 1080i with the 6600GT. I have no problems with the Radeon. The PureVideo technology gives great de-interlacing on video source DVDs, but I mostly use my HTPC with film source DVDs, so for me it makes no difference.
 

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I too am frustrated with a new Gigayte 6600GT.

I keep trying to add new custom resolutions with it's latest driver (and previous), to no avail. It will not accept them.

Even tried to override with Powerstrip.

Windows (and I believe the Nvidia driver) will still not accept them.


Never had those problems with my ATI 9600.


I had to install NVtweak and am not sure what allowed me to FINALLY add a custom resolution or two, and they work, but geez, why is it so difficult?


So the 6600GT looks great, and it and it does output to DVI from boot to desktop (unlike the ATI with component dongle), but it was a pain, and the heatpipe cooler runs hot.


Oh, my first 6600GT self destructed in the first two minutes of operation. I inspected the (brand neew) carcass and it turned out that the heatsink/pipe was not installed correctly, the GPU wasn't actually contacting the heat sink. So kapoof went the first 6600GT.


I'm running this in winxp pro. However have tried many distros of linux (live CDs) and Nvidia is supposed to be suppported much better than ATI in this field. In almost every case the X-server couldn't even start. So no desktop whatsoever. At least the Radeon would work with Linux, albeit crippled (linux universal driver doesn't support 3D).


I'll probably go back to the 'ol 9600 or a 9800Pro, after giving the 6600GT another chance (and some more inevitable hours).


BTW. Suse 9.3 does output to it all the way to desktop, even my beloved Mepis won't and I'm likely to boot out the Nvidia before Mepis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Would it be reasonable to expect that if using DVI, which is a digital signal, that the picture quality differences between the NVidia and ATI cards are non existent? Sort of like the difference between digital SPDIF outputs for soundcards are pretty much the same, yet the analog sound outputs can vary because of the analog nature - so the component/composite/s-video quality will vary between video card implementations by the same logic?


If this is true, then for DVI either ATI or Nvidia will give the same picture quality result.


Regards,

Dean
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob
Would it be reasonable to expect that if using DVI, which is a digital signal, that the picture quality differences between the NVidia and ATI cards are non existent? Sort of like the difference between digital SPDIF outputs for soundcards are pretty much the same, yet the analog sound outputs can vary because of the analog nature - so the component/composite/s-video quality will vary between video card implementations by the same logic?

If this is true, then for DVI either ATI or Nvidia will give the same picture quality result.


Regards,

Dean
There are no absolutes, only your personal likes or dislikes. I prefer the DScaler / ffdshow combo for film stuff (see no difference in PQ between my x800pro and 6600gt this way, I use component) and find the Purevideo picture on the soft side to my taste . But that's me. There are many here in the forum that prefer Purevideo and that's fine.


For video I'd love to use the ffdshow software deinterlacing filters but I can 't manage to have them running right at 1080i output. For that I use Theatertek / NVDvd combo with Full Sreen Renderless / DXVA / Pixel adaptive on my ATI. I know this is not purevideo - no film detection, etc - but it works for the video stuff I watch.


So try to see for yourself.
 
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