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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought the onkyo 7.1 7100 htib system. Girlfriend is not fond of having speakers sitting on stands or shelves. Options I am thinking of is taking back the unit and just getting the same receiver and buying 6 in-ceiling speakers (she will have to live with the sub) . I have read that you don't get great sound from in-ceilings as the sound is projected from too high and straight down. My other option would be to mount the existing onkyo speakers to the ceiling. If I did that I would like to mount them to some omnidirectional mount so that I can atleast rotate and point them to the correct listening position. Do you have a link to some ceiling speaker mounts or a decent set of in-ceiling? I don't want to spend a fortune. Something with the same sound quality as the onkyos would be fine. 7100 was 700 bucks. Receiver is 250-300.. So I don't want to go over the 700 if I am buying all seperate speakers.. that give me $400 for 6 speakers and center and a sub?? Thinking my best bet is mounting the speakers I have but I don't know what is out there.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W73 /forum/post/16921575


I bought the onkyo 7.1 7100 htib system. Girlfriend is not fond of having speakers sitting on stands or shelves. Options I am thinking of is taking back the unit and just getting the same receiver and buying 6 in-ceiling speakers (she will have to live with the sub) . I have read that you don't get great sound from in-ceilings as the sound is projected from too high and straight down. My other option would be to mount the existing onkyo speakers to the ceiling. If I did that I would like to mount them to some omnidirectional mount so that I can atleast rotate and point them to the correct listening position. Do you have a link to some ceiling speaker mounts or a decent set of in-ceiling? I don't want to spend a fortune. Something with the same sound quality as the onkyos would be fine. 7100 was 700 bucks. Receiver is 250-300.. So I don't want to go over the 700 if I am buying all seperate speakers.. that give me $400 for 6 speakers and center and a sub?? Thinking my best bet is mounting the speakers I have but I don't know what is out there.

This probably isn't the reply you wanted, but, I think there should be some compromise from your girlfriend. You haven't invested greatly in your sound system yet; surely there can be decorative ways to encorporate speakers/video display/equipment to your mutual satisfaction. I have installed 5.1 in-ceilings for friends with similar "issues" and it just doesn't image home theater or multi channel music close to what can be acheived recommended speaker placement. Hang in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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Originally Posted by snpanago /forum/post/16921628


This probably isn't the reply you wanted, but, I think there should be some compromise from your girlfriend. You haven't invested greatly in your sound system yet; surely there can be decorative ways to encorporate speakers/video display/equipment to your mutual satisfaction. I have installed 5.1 in-ceilings for friends with similar "issues" and it just doesn't image home theater or multi channel music close to what can be acheived recommended speaker placement. Hang in there.

what about mounting the existing speakers on the ceiling and directing them toward the seating area. Is that better.. or will it still sound like the sound is coming from above..

My other problem is that the room isn't suited well for 7.1 in that the seating area is against the back wall. So the rears that are on stands will be behind the couch and almost right in our ears.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W73 /forum/post/16921696


what about mounting the existing speakers on the ceiling and directing them toward the seating area. Is that better.. or will it still sound like the sound is coming from above..

My other problem is that the room isn't suited well for 7.1 in that the seating area is against the back wall. So the rears that are on stands will be behind the couch and almost right in our ears.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that option. I've installed a 5.1 with satellites mounted on the ceiling with omnimounts, with speakers angled down toward the the seating area. I thought it sounded surprisingly enveloping and with good impact since he had a pretty good sub. I did insist on the center speaker being located just above his video display to center the all important dialogue to the screen. He and his family enjoy it and I think that is the way to go if you can't work your "compromise" in your favor. 7.1 setup doesn't work well at all with seating against the rear wall. 5.1 will be asthetically more pleasing to you and your girlfriend and you won't be missing anything. Perhaps the extra 2 speakers can be used in the future with height or width matrixing or a second room maybe.
 

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j, I went with a 7.1 in ceiling system and I was very concerned about the sound "coming from above", but within a few hours I didn't even notice that the speakers were not directly in front of me. The wife is very happy that the speakers are "hidden" and it makes for a very clean install. I used JA Audio speakers and spent a little more on the fronts that are angled toward the seating position. For the rears I used basic down firing speakers, for us it works outr very well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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Originally Posted by snpanago /forum/post/16921770


Sorry, I forgot to mention that option. I've installed a 5.1 with satellites mounted on the ceiling with omnimounts, with speakers angled down toward the the seating area. I thought it sounded surprisingly enveloping and with good impact since he had a pretty good sub. I did insist on the center speaker being located just above his video display to center the all important dialogue to the screen. He and his family enjoy it and I think that is the way to go if you can't work your "compromise" in your favor. 7.1 setup doesn't work well at all with seating against the rear wall. 5.1 will be asthetically more pleasing to you and your girlfriend and you won't be missing anything. Perhaps the extra 2 speakers can be used in the future with height or width matrixing or a second room maybe.

well the center is just under the tv on the mantle (yes, alot of people don't like the over the fireplace setup, it seems to be ok for us) She may go for the front left and right on the mantle.. but I am in the same situation for the back 4 or 2 regardless of the option I choose.. the middle 2 are going to have to go to the ceiling.. there is not option as the room is open to the left..

the back two.. I can put on stands behind the couch.. but like I said.. the speakers would be right in our ears.

If I go 5.1 would the stands be the best option or should I raise those to the ceiling anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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Originally Posted by ChefTech /forum/post/16921778


j, I went with a 7.1 in ceiling system and I was very concerned about the sound "coming from above", but within a few hours I didn't even notice that the speakers were not directly in front of me. The wife is very happy that the speakers are "hidden" and it makes for a very clean install. I used JA Audio speakers and spent a little more on the fronts that are angled toward the seating position. For the rears I used basic down firing speakers, for us it works outr very well.

I think if I use in ceiling I would use angled.. do you have a link to the speakers.. Are they closed in the back. I heard that had better sound..

I know if I go in ceiling route I am going to be spending more money by the time I get the 6 speakers , sub and center..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W73 /forum/post/16921895


well the center is just under the tv on the mantle (yes, alot of people don't like the over the fireplace setup, it seems to be ok for us) She may go for the front left and right on the mantle.. but I am in the same situation for the back 4 or 2 regardless of the option I choose.. the middle 2 are going to have to go to the ceiling.. there is not option as the room is open to the left..

the back two.. I can put on stands behind the couch.. but like I said.. the speakers would be right in our ears.

If I go 5.1 would the stands be the best option or should I raise those to the ceiling anyway.

A couple quick references for you: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/129023.html

and
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_e...ide/index.html

If you can raise a couple of feet up, amazingly, the surround effects don't sound like they're right in your ears during movies. I think I would try the stands first and see if you like it there before committing to the ceiling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by snpanago /forum/post/16922193


A couple quick references for you: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/129023.html

and
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_e...ide/index.html

If you can raise a couple of feet up, amazingly, the surround effects don't sound like they're right in your ears during movies. I think I would try the stands first and see if you like it there before committing to the ceiling.


I have breifly looked at both of those pages.. that is what clued me in that I have a far from ideal 7.1 setup. If I was going to use the stands I had already planned on extending the stand poles anyway so they would clear the back of the couch. I could raise them any amount I wanted I would assume.. If I raise them would the sounds be going over the top of our heads though ???
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Being that we don't have an otimal setup.. if I still used the 7.1 what would be the best place for the 2 middle speakers.. Those have to go on the ceiling.. Would they be better at the half way point of the room putting them quite in front of the seating area or would it be better to move them to the back 1/3 or 1/4 of the room more over the seating area..I'm assuming the 1/3 to 1/4 so they are more to the side would be better.

I wonder if that and the rears on the stands would still provide a decent 7.1 experience


also ..just so I know.. what is the newest/best /the one we want.. is it 7.1 dts.

I was reading in those links that the dolby ex rear channel is mono.. is there one that is true 7 distinct channels of sound??
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W73 /forum/post/16922406


I have breifly looked at both of those pages.. that is what clued me in that I have a far from ideal 7.1 setup. If I was going to use the stands I had already planned on extending the stand poles anyway so they would clear the back of the couch. I could raise them any amount I wanted I would assume.. If I raise them would the sounds be going over the top of our heads though ???

Great thing is, you can experiment with directionality of your rear speakers (unless using them for multichannel music). With movie surround effects, the surrounds and rears normally have information reproduced to place you in the scene/room/environment with the actors. The front 3 speakers and their placement are critical for realistic dialogue and soundstage reproduction. The rear speakers can be directed at the listener, toward each other, and sometimes reflected onto a wall to create a nice effect....you could experiment.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W73 /forum/post/16922452


Being that we don't have an otimal setup.. if I still used the 7.1 what would be the best place for the 2 middle speakers.. Those have to go on the ceiling.. Would they be better at the half way point of the room putting them quite in front of the seating area or would it be better to move them to the back 1/3 or 1/4 of the room more over the seating area..I'm assuming the 1/3 to 1/4 so they are more to the side would be better.

I wonder if that and the rears on the stands would still provide a decent 7.1 experience


also ..just so I know.. what is the newest/best /the one we want.. is it 7.1 dts.

I was reading in those links that the dolby ex rear channel is mono.. is there one that is true 7 distinct channels of sound??

We're getting into territory where others can give you more knowledgeable advice. I think there should be several feet, if possible, between the side surrounds and the rear surrounds. If you can move that couch away from the back wall and closer to the video display, it will help. I think if your in-ceiling "side" surrounds are too far in front of your seating position, I don't know if you'll be happy. They're supposed to be level or slightly behind the primary listening position, elevated a few feet. Hope that helps.

The best 7.1 sound you'll get comes from lossless discs that are labelled Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio. Many possess discrete 7.1 channel soundtrack, most are still 5.1.

For stereo sources and 5.1 Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio, your AVR should be using a processing like Dolby PLIIx. Here, 2 channel and 5 channel sources make excellent use of all of your 7 speakers (and subwoofer). So, your AVR needs to have the ability to decode all of these codecs or your DVD/Blu-ray player needs to be able to do it before sending the signal to your AVR. I'm going stop there before I make a fool of myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm pretty sure my onkyo sr606 can decode all of those audio formats.. that is the reason I got it.. cause it was the best bang for the buck and had true 7.1 decoding.. or so I read..

didn't know what any of it was but

I think my best bet is using the existing speakers with some omnidirectional ceiling mounts.. not sure if I am going to go for all of them that way.. just the middles.. or the middles and backs.... like I said fronts I can leave on the mantle .. I think they are at a pretty good height and placement as far as where they are supposed to be..

thanks for the help..

I guess I'll make the best of what I have to work with..
 

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I have had very good results with these two speaker models for surround sound in my 12' x 14' room. I use the UIW BPZ/A in the wall and the UIW BP/A in the ceiling. The bipolar arrangement helps with the rear imaging.


UIW BPZ/A Two-Way Bipolar In-Wall Loudspeaker

Two-Way Bipolar In-Wall Loudspeaker Outer Flange Dimensions | Metric :

8-1/2 W x 14-3/4 H | 21.6 x 37.5 cm







UIW BP/A Two-Way Bipolar In-wall Loudspeaker

Two-Way Bipolar In-wall Loudspeaker Outer Flange Dimensions | Metric :

7-1/8 W x 12-1/2 H | 18.1 x 31.8 cm

 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the help . These look like nice speakers but they are way , way, way out of my budget..

I paid $700 for the whole 7100 onkyo .. receiver .. 7 speakers and sub..

If I do take it back and go the in ceiling route I wouldn't only 450 to spend on speakers and subs..

I think I am going to stick with what I have get some ceiling mounts for atleast the middle speakers.
 

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This may be obvious to most who participate in this forum, but I experienced something this morning that I thought was worth mentioning, in case some haven't considered it.

In helping a friend calibrate his surround system using his AVR's MCACC and a SPL meter, pink noise test tones sounded extremely distorted emanating from his rear in-ceiling speakers. No matter what speed the adjacent ceiling fans were deployed, incredible chopping of sound waves was the result. I mean pink noise sounded like helicopter blades were knifing through the air. I don't think he could appreciate the effect during normal 5.1 source material, but we were aghast at what happened to the test tones. Thought I should bring this up, obvious as it might be, to those considering in-ceiling speaker installs who already have nearby ceiling fans.
 

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I personally like setting up the surrounds and backs on wall/celling mounts. These can be positioned to give the best audio reference, and now a days most receivers have some type of audio calibration.

 

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I'm with you on this. I think it looks good and I am sure it sounds much better than in-ceilings would have; especially with a slightly complex installation that your room angles seem to show in the picture.
 
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