[Chuck]

Have gotten GREAT info from other forum members in past. Basically, I'm setting up a 7 channel system in a 12 x 17 basement room. Have a Toshiba Projector and have accumulated 4 Hafler amps and 7 dynaudio speakers ..... Have heard logic-7 and LOVED - so was planning on a used Lexicon (probably DC-1 or DC-2). On the other hand, could also get a used B&K Ref 30 for around same, or a NEW Outlaw 950 ....


My main goal is 7 channel film sound - any opinions on relative merits of these units would be greatly appreciated!


Lexicon (DC-1, 2 or MC-1)

Outlaw 950

B&K Ref 30

Other?


Thanks!!


Chuck

 

[ValueCanuck]

Chuck:


On the NEW front, there are a couple of other options that get you in or around your price range:

- Atlantic Technology P-2000 (MSRP $1699 USD)

- Rotel RSP-1066 (MSRP $1499 USD)

 

[Carl Brinkman]

The advantage of a newer processor is that you can have DPL II which according to all reports is a MAJOR advance. See the DPL II repore over on the "Secrets" website. They are smitten, and also Meridian owners that are unusually hard to impress.

 

[Ricky]

7 channel film sound under 1500? Get a used DC2 with version 4.0. Most Lexicon owners don't really care about DPL2, DD-EX, and DTS-ES because Logic 7 (and other Lexicon modes) are better.

 

[sfogg]

" is that you can have DPL II which according to all reports is a MAJOR advance."


A major advance over DPL. The DPLII report is interesting in that DPLII was tweaked to taste, L7 was left at default settings and only used in a 5 speaker system and the reviewer was still very impressed with it. It only gets better if you tweak it and use it in a 7 channel system.


DPLII won't do anything for your 5.1 DD/DTS soundtracks either. L7 will.


Shawn

 

[mercury]

this is an easy choice,


7.1 for film=L7..........DC-2 or MC-1,


TS

 

[Lantern]

Quote:

Originally posted by sfogg [BDPLII won't do anything for your 5.1 DD/DTS soundtracks either. L7 will. Shawn [/b]

Hmmm....can you explain this a little further........looks like I'm getting the upgradis bug again

 

[sfogg]

You can run L7 on top of DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 soudtracks to have it steer out four indepedant surrounds. The rears are in *stereo* (unlike the mono rears in DD EX...etc..etc..) and you can have sounds pan between all of them. You also get things like Lexicon's Bass Enhance processing and Vocal Enhance available.


Shawn

 

[Lantern]

Looks like my decision to go easy with the electronics during my upgades is paying off.......



But, its only been a week and a half since I bought my new/first separate processor




Now I'm trying to decide between Lexicon and Fosgate's pre/pro offerings.......I am a much weaker man than I initially thought!!

 

[Carl Brinkman]

I would advise you not to buy a used Lexicon without hearing one in person. While the have legions of loyal fans their sonics are not for everyone. For movies alone they are pretty good, but if 2 channel reproduction is at all important you NEED to see if their sound agrees with you.

 

[Rich B]

There is a new Onkyo Integra prepro coming out soon with a list price of $2K. That means a street price of $1.5K, if you're a good negotiator.


There are 3 lines:

Onkyo

Onkyo Integra

Onkyo Integra Research (like the very nice RDC-7 model)


This new piece is for the "middle" Onkyo segment. Features list is VERY nice. There is a thread on this forum (do a search) and on HTForum, with links to the company's website. Stuff that I remember, that stands out: newest DACs, jitter reducer (like the Research prepro?!), a 7 channel DPL2 mode, THXU2, software upgradeable, and PC input for internet music.


This sounds like a great unit.


Rich B.

 

[rt297]

Quote:

Originally posted by sfogg You can run L7 on top of DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 soudtracks to have it steer out four indepedant surrounds. The rears are in *stereo* (unlike the mono rears in DD EX...etc..etc..) and you can have sounds pan between all of them. You also get things like Lexicon's Bass Enhance processing and Vocal Enhance available. Shawn

But doesn't L7 when overlayed to DD5.1 down mix it to two channels before reprocessing the signal?

 

[sfogg]

Russ,


No, not on a Lexicon. That is what the H/K AVR 8000 does.


Shawn

 

[rt297]

Could you point me to the white papers that explain this please? I seem to be under the impression that L7 only processes 2 channel sources even with the Lexicon processors. I used to have an explanation from Lexicon describing L7, and don't remember that it somehow extracts stereo rear information for the 6th and 7th channels from DD and DTS discrete sources without downmixing the signal.

Thank you,

 

[sfogg]

Russ,


" I seem to be under the impression that L7 only processes 2 channel sources even with the Lexicon processors."


That is incorrect. Every Lexicon since the DC-1 (in '96) has had 5.1 Logic 7 which applies Logic 7 processing on top of a 5.1 DD/DTS decoding to give a full 7.1 channel presentation.


Download any Lexicon's owners manual and read the description of 5.1 Logic 7. Page 5-8 in the MC-12s manual.


Lexicon's *can* downmix a 5.1 source and L7 *encode* it to two channels but that is a different process.


Shawn

 

[rt297]

 http://www.lexicon.com/downloads/fil...oduct=MC1&ID=5

Here is a quote from page 6 of the design theory for the MC-1:

"Also included are effects which mix original 5.1 discrete soundtracks down to 2 channels which will play back with 5 or 7 channels of surround when decoded with our processor."

 

[sfogg]

Like I said, that is the L7 encoding that you can do with a Lexicon. That isn't the same as 5.1 Logic 7.


Shawn

 

[rt297]

The link I provided was published by Lexicon in 1999. While referring to DD and DTS extensively in regards to L7, they never mention that somehow they manage to do what you are suggesting. One of these days, I will have to take a look at the MC12 manual. Maybe it is more informative than their explanation of how it works on the MC 1. Some reprocessing of the signal has to be in place to make it work.

 

[sfogg]

Russ,


"While referring to DD and DTS extensively in regards to L7, they never mention that somehow they manage to do what you are suggesting."


I just read the section your quoted from the 'Theory and Design Manual.' Re-read the sentence right about the one you quoted....


"In addition to standard decoding for both Dolby Digital and DTS soudtrack, we also include our proprietary Logic 7 matrix technology to extend the 5.1 standard to seven channels, along with some of the LucasFilm Home THX enhancements."


Extending the 5.1 to 7.1 is the 5.1 Logic 7 modes.


This has been this way since '96, it isn't new. Download the DC-1 owners manual if you prefer.


The quote you provide is refering to the 5.1 2 channel mode.


From the manual you haven't read regarding 5.1 2 channel ...


"Designed for conversion of 5.1 channel Dolby Digital input types to LOGIC7 encoded 2 channel output types.


Allows 5.1 Dolby Digital sources to be listened to through the front left and right channels.


Reproduces the original 5.1 performance through playback of LOGIC7 listening modes.


Recommended for recording purposes."


The discription of 5.1 Logic 7:


"A proprietary Lexicon listening mode.


Design for playback of 5.1 channel Dolby Digital film sources.


Utilizes several techniques to derive seven channels from 5.1 channel input types. With side and rear speakers selected, 5.1 LOGIC7 FILM also increases the perceived length and sense of envelopment of the listening space.


Provides remarkable improvement compared to other decoders.


Recommended for 5.1 channel Dolby Digital film sources, even when only one pair of surround speakers is selected."


Of course if you still don't believe it read the info about the DC-1s launch from Buzz Goddard at:

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Lexicon/index.html


and see the detailed product launch info.


You might also notice that Lexicon was the first company to have DTS-ES and THX Surround EX decoding. That is because they were already doing something more complex with 5.1 Logic 7 so adding those two decoding schemes to the DC-1 was easy.


" Some reprocessing of the signal has to be in place to make it work."


Of course it is processing the signal, that is what a digital signal processor (DSP) does.


Shawn

 

[sdurani]

Quote:

Originally posted by rt297 While referring to DD and DTS extensively in regards to L7, they never mention that somehow they manage to do what you are suggesting.

Sure they do, just look a little further. On page 31 of the MC-1 Theory & Design booklet (p.34 of the pdf document) they describe what you mentioned, the 5.1 2-channel modes, vs what Shawn mentioned, the 5.1 LOGIC7 modes. The former mixes original 5.1 discrete soundtracks down to 2 channels, while the latter converts discrete 5.1 soundtracks to 7.1 by steering the 2 surround channels over 4 surround speakers.


Best,

Sanjay