7" CRT VS DLP REVIEW

Against a 7"er the 1000U will be a bit sharper, resolve more fine detail and be brighter, but that's it. The CRT will deliver MUCH deeper blacks, much better colors, much more texture and just an overall more 3 dimensional looking image, especially with gamma correction for true blacks.


They will each have their own look, but you'll have to decide whether the tradeoffs are worth it or not. HD will look more HD for sure, but you will give up something for that.


Personally, if you are coming from a CRT pay a little more and get a Sharp DT-500.


Screenshots won't prove anything. CRTs are hard enough to capture due to their lower light output. Digitals often look better in screenshots due to their higher light output.


I have an ECP 4500+, an NEC 6PG (which needs a part replaced) and an Infocus 4805. Both CRT and DLP have their own advantages, but when I do a direct comparison between my ECP 4500+ and my ECP 4500+ I realize that even though the 4805 is super bright and sharp the ECP 4500+ puts the smack down on it with most material. I was watching a black and white style Smallville episode the other day on my 4805 and it looked pretty good so I decided to check it out on the CRT right afterwards and man did it put a beatin on the 4805. The harsh digital look (even though it looked good) was gone and suddenly there was this velvety texture to the image. It's hard to explain, but I know it comes from having near infinite on/off native contrast with gamma correction. It was like watching a original photographs shot on film with much better blacks vs a harsher projected image look with the DLP. With a great source DLP can look more filmlike. Personally, I find it looks more filmlike on my pale gray wall at 10.5' wide than on my super high gain 8' wide torus.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tbase1 /forum/post/0


with gray screens helping out with black levels...is contrast the last trade off?

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I had a Barco Data 600 and have viewed the 701 although some time ago. I loved the accurate colors and saturation level of the CRT, but I might be the only one who doesn't like the 'silky' blacks of a CRT. Even though I had mine fully calibrated it still seemed like the blacks were almost crushed. I haven't viewed a CRT yet that I didn't feel this way.


My first DLP projector was the NEC LT150 and even though the black level was definitely not the same, the skin-tone rendition and lack of maintenance / convergence had me hooked. The picture was also sharper.


I have recently purchased the Sharp DT-500 and couldn't be happier. The colors are wonderful and the black level is almost to the point of where I like it. Going with a gray screen will improve this. The biggest difference overall is brightness! The Barco was unwatchable for me with ambient light, but with the Sharp, it still has a great picture with most of the lights on. The Sharp produces an even crisper image which everyone first comments about. My parents were over last night and I let them watch 'Dancing with the Stars', one of their favorite shows. Even though they've seen my CRT and LT150 in action, and they have a 42" plasma at home with HD, this is the first time I've seen their jaws hit the floor.


I have some screenshots showing the difference between my LT150 and DT-500 here . Hopefully you don't have trouble viewing them. I've been having troubles finding a reliable host. They are large & can take a bit to download.


For me, the #1 reason I went with DLP was because of the convergence and maintenance of the CRT and worrying about burn-in. With 20-minute warmups to correct convergence, and monthly adjusting due to the humidity and temp changes here in the mid-west, I just couldn't take it any more. I see the CRT section joking about us looking for bulbs which only happens every 1-2 years - who knows how much time is wasted tweaking the CRT.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tbase1 /forum/post/0


My title is is to draw guys into a post about what can I expect out of this projector compared to what I have.

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Maybe your title should be:

CRT owners who now own a digital projector - Should I buy one too?


That way you could cross post!

I'm a digital guy (DLP) looking long and hard at buying a CRT, probably an entry level-ish 7" like the Barco 701. I have a basement w/total blackout and the 701 is quiet and light enough to mount without difficulty (I hope). My only fears are that being new to CRT keeping it "running" and converged might be dificult, and that I'll need a bunch of outboard scaling gear to watch my DVDs. Still, I think this will probably happen before too long, so I'll be watching this thread keenly!

IMO a gray screen can go a long way towards improving black levels while maintaining whites given enough lumens. And gray isn't just for people with ambient light issues.


If you do a simple eyedropper test of the two images below I'm sure you will find higher, deeper, richer black levels in the CRT image than my DLP image. But going back to the idea of perceived contrast and black levels the brighter image will win your eye I think.


Over in the DIY screen forum we have been talking about perception quite a bit as of late and I have posted a few similar photo comparisons with more detailed explanations of what everyone thinks.




DLP screen shot off of a Sharp XR10X on a simple painted gray screen.

Are those screen shots taken with the same movie & frame? Not only is the DLP image brighter, but it makes people better looking as well! I need to project my mug on my DLP and show the Wife!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuner /forum/post/0


Are those screen shots taken with the same movie & frame? Not only is the DLP image brighter, but it makes people better looking as well! I need to project my mug on my DLP and show the Wife!

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You are right the comparison was and is a bit unfair. That's the case in almost all screen shots.


I had planned last night to throw in King Kong and find that same image and then do a comparison photo. Still would be a different projector, screen / screen size and cam but would be a little fairer comparison.


What I was more showing was that even though a black level is diminished in the presence of bright whites or vivid colors it will have the perceived appearance of a richer black. And the interesting thing (at least to me) is you can take a picture of it as well.


As to making yourself look better to the little woman by projecting yourself on the screen Hmm you might not look better but you will defiantly look bigger



If anyone wants to see an example of perception of black go to this thread and start reading around post #117

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&page=4&pp=30


The thread is mostly my thoughts on gray screens and contrast.


If I find some time I'll try and get the same Jack Black shot and replace the other Hulk photo.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 /forum/post/0


IMO a gray screen can go a long way towards improving black levels while maintaining whites given enough lumens. And gray isn't just for people with ambient light issues.


If you do a simple eyedropper test of the two images below I'm sure you will find higher, deeper, richer black levels in the CRT image than my DLP image. But going back to the idea of perceived contrast and black levels the brighter image will win your eye I think.


Over in the DIY screen forum we have been talking about perception quite a bit as of late and I have posted a few similar photo comparisons with more detailed explanations of what everyone thinks.




DLP screen shot off of a Sharp XR10X on a simple painted gray screen.

Click to expand...

In reality (meaning not judging based on screenshots) a low end DLP is no match for a well setup CRT. Screenshots are a terrible way to compare a CRT and DLP.


DLP consistently has a more noisy image which the screenshots cannot capture. The colors in real life are not on the same level. The 4805 outclasses the XR10x's colors due to it not having a clear segment and even though they seem very nice once I switch to CRT the colors are taken to another level.


A screenshot simply cannot capture the CRT aesthetic that is so wonderful. A grey screen only somewhat helps DLP. I've used one and its blacks are still not even remotely close to my CRTs. Infact, I projected a fade to black with my 4805 at 8' wide onto a black sheet and its fade to black still didn't come close to my CRT's on my high gain silver torus.


BTW, you're comparing two wildly different scenes of different brightness levels. Put the same scenes up on the XR-10X and the difference shouldn't be as big. The deeper blacks matter most in dark scenes anyway, not so much in mixed scenes.


My 4805 is WAY brighter than my ECP4500+, but my ECP4500+ puts the smackdown on the 4805. I've done A/B comparisons a few times and when I think I'm impressed with the 4805 I switch to the CRT and I am floored.


Nothing I've seen has topped my two CRT pjs. I've been to a $200,000+ DLP Cinema and I prefer my CRT to it in some key areas. The exception was Monster House in 3D....maybe. Though my CRT made it look just as good and even better in many scenes than the DLP cinema, but the 3D at the DLP cinema was amazing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson /forum/post/0


In reality (meaning not judging based on screenshots) a low end DLP is no match for a well setup CRT. Screenshots are a terrible way to compare a CRT and DLP.


DLP consistently has a more noisy image which the screenshots cannot capture. The colors in real life are not on the same level. The 4805 outclasses the XR10x's colors due to it not having a clear segment and even though they seem very nice once I switch to CRT the colors are taken to another level.


A screenshot simply cannot capture the CRT aesthetic that is so wonderful. A grey screen only somewhat helps DLP. I've used one and its blacks are still not even remotely close to my CRTs. Infact, I projected a fade to black with my 4805 at 8' wide onto a black sheet and its fade to black still didn't come close to my CRT's on my high gain silver torus.


BTW, you're comparing two wildly different scenes of different brightness levels. Put the same scenes up on the XR-10X and the difference shouldn't be as big. The deeper blacks matter most in dark scenes anyway, not so much in mixed scenes.


My 4805 is WAY brighter than my ECP4500+, but my ECP4500+ puts the smackdown on the 4805.

I've done A/B comparisons a few times and when I think I'm impressed with the 4805 I switch to the CRT and I am floored.


Nothing I've seen has topped my two CRT pjs. I've been to a $200,000+ DLP Cinema and I prefer my CRT to it in some key areas. The exception was Monster House in 3D....maybe. Though my CRT made it look just as good and even better in many scenes than the DLP cinema, but the 3D at the DLP cinema was amazing.

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MTyson


I kind of alluded to the comparison not being totally fair in the above post. And screen shots are never full proof but are they better than nothing? I don't know the answer to that.


One thing I always try and do when taking screen shots is to discard the ones that don't portray what I normally see. Those can go two different ways based on the cam settings etc.


But you are right those two scenes could be quite different in how they are lit in the movie. I forget where the KK scene was taken from in the movie.


I have been to the film theater a good deal lately and even a 75mm Imax type place a week ago and I was surprised at how the fade to blacks look on the big screen. Something I never used to even think about. Movies are defiantly not as good as my DLP at black levels.


I haven't seen a great deal of well setup CRT projectors and crossing platforms is really hard to compare things. A month ago someone was comparing a DLP FP to a plasma display. Just as hard or harder to compare. And for the same reason (foot lamberts) I think play a big part into this thing you mentioned about not being able to take a picture of a CRT and capture what you see. I think the fact is our eyes are much better than the best digital cams at what they do in this regard.


Not ever having that total black level experience on my part could be a good thing as far as allowing me to feel total satisfaction with the image I'm now getting on my cheep DLP unit. It could be a case of ignorance is bliss as they say. One of the things I do when reading a lot here is look for certain things and I have read lots of happy people going from CRT's to newer digital stuff but never do they say the black levels are the reason. Its more about size weight etc etc.


If ambient light is a desirable or undesirable factor in the mix then it could be far different outcome also.


Sometimes different is just that different.