[brianmlamb]

I've been going back and forth with this question in my mind for the past few weeks. I've even taped off the different sizes on the wall it'd be mounted on. I originally was waiting for OLED to become affordable, now with the $2k deals I've got the itch to pull the trigger on the LG EC9300. However I've been concerned about motion handling after reading thousands of pages of posts and reviews and don't want to miss out on the next big thing in terms of Picture quality improvements if they truly make the experience that much better (HDR, WCG, UHD Bluray etc...).

I viewed the 70" vizio P series in Costco the other day playing a 4k demo loop and was pretty impressed with how it looked, it was also $2k so the same price as the EC9300. It also got me thinking it might be more fun to have a much larger TV rather than the absolute best in PQ. I'd likely wait for the new P series or R series if it ever comes out if I decide to go this route to get the WCG/HDR support.

I have no limit on the size of TV I can fit since it will be wall mounted. I sit ~12-13 feet away from the TV and very rarely will move a chair to about 6 feet away and sit dead center for gaming. I only watch the tv from straight on so viewing angles really aren't a problem. No windows facing the tv wall so reflections aren't an issue. I usually watch tv at night in the dark, but also have some bias led lighting installed behind my set that I like to turn on. I'm also not opposed to having a light on in the room to see my drink or snacks and not trip over anything in the dark haha. My vision isn't the best.

The vast majority of my viewing is netflix and amazon prime with some occasional over the air broadcasting. I watch blurays about 2-3 times a month and game about once a week for 2 hours.

I currently have a 42" samsung plasma 720p from 2007. It's still going strong and I've been pretty happy with it. I've played with the calibration settings and in general I like trying new tech. I've been waiting to jump in and get something nicer, but have been sitting on the sidelines for almost 2 years due to the changing tech. Seems like it'll never stop and I'm getting tired of waiting so I'm pretty set on buying between now and the end of the year. I'd probably not upgrade again for another 5 years. Budget is between $2-3k, wife would prefer closer to the $2k mark but I can go higher since I've pushed the purchase off for so long. I only have 1 tv in the condo and plan to keep it that way so no need for bedroom sets.

So what would you do in my situation? Go big 4k or go for OLED?

 

[WarpedTrekker]

70" 4k

 

[Placid666]

The 70" Vizio.






You can always return it if you are not happy once you get it home.
Seems there is always some new thing coming out in the future that will be better.

 

[8mile13]

LCd also has motion issues so it is a no win situation in that regard. With larger screen sizes you will have off axis problems on a LCd even when you sit dead center. Since you own a 42'' TV going from 42'' to 55'' will be a big jump, going to 70'' will be a giant leap. When you currently own a Plasma OLED is the natural choice even more so when you watch TV in the dark..buying another Plasma is also a option.

Vizio P series review
''There is a long trail that follows fast-moving objects on this TV, which means it’s not an ideal choice for gaming or watching sports. It will still be okay for regular TV and film viewing, though. The trail is visible regardless of whether 'Smooth Motion Effect' or 'Clear Action' are enabled.''

''Using the ‘Game Low Latency’ feature drops input lag to a very low 18.7 msecs, but only on HDMI 5. On HDMI 1-4, the lowest it gets is 45.5 msecs. Without GLL, HDMI 5 has an input lag of 85.5 msecs (84.3 with interpolation), and HDMI 1-4 has one of 103.9 (102.9 with interpolation).''

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/zBKivGo7HdY?rel=0


EC9300 review
''Unlike LCDs, the LG EC9300 doesn’t appear to have any pixel response time issues, where the pixels cannot physically open or close fast enough to avoid smearing (although we’d like to test this further in the future). That’s only part of the battle against motion blur, however. Like LCDs, and unlike plasmas and CRTs, OLED displays are using sample and hold driving, meaning that one frame is shown on the panel until it is replaced by the next one, without any black gap inbetween. The result is that the motion we perceive with our eyes and brain appears blurred during fast video content. The motion resolution, just like an LCD, is only 300 lines by default.''

 

[nvidio]

Beause you prefer to sit in the dark, I am inclined to say go for the OLED's vastly superior contrast, black levels, and colors, but the input lag on the LG is not great for gaming even though it is still acceptable for casual gaming. If taking the 4K route, IMO you need to keep in mind that 4K content availability is still poor, and gaming in 4K resolution requires some serious GPU power unless you can be happy with upscaled video quality. About screen size and viewing distance, it should be noted that different people have very different preferences. Personally, I, prefer to sit at about 10' from my 42" TV so I know I could be happy with a 55" 1080p TV, but that's me.

 

[Placid666]

I found this chart at extremetech.com

 

[brianmlamb]

LCd also has motion issues so it is a no win situation in that regard.

Thanks, appreciate the excerpts about both TV's motion issues. I'm used to my plasma and I've always preferred it to the LCD's for years. It's only recently that I've noticed the LCD's getting close to or better than my old plasma. I used to be a lot more critical watching things, but recently I've only got time for a quick netflix break or an hour or two every weekend to watch a movie or play a game so I'm wondering if I can settle on the lower motion and contrast to get a larger size.

Beause you prefer to sit in the dark, I am inclined to say go for the OLED's vastly superior contrast, black levels, and colors, but the input lag on the LG is not great for gaming even though it is still acceptable for casual gaming. If taking the 4K route, IMO you need to keep in mind that 4K content availability is still poor, and gaming in 4K resolution requires some serious GPU power unless you can be happy with upscaled video quality. About screen size and viewing distance, it should be noted that different people have very different preferences. Personally, I, prefer to sit at about 10' from my 42" TV so I know I could be happy with a 55" 1080p TV, but that's me.

For gaming I never play online, just local games like borderlands, uncharted, etc... so the lag isn't a huge deal to me like it would be for Call of Duty or something like that. Definitely not as big of a gamer as I used to be. The reason for going with the 4k lcd is size over everything else, I know the OLED is better, it's just not as big. But at the same time I'm going for the wow factor, the oled should do that with contrast while the 4k should with size. Just can't decide which will be more enjoyable to watch. I can't afford the 65" OLEDs or that'd solve my issue, don't think they'll be in my price range either until end of '16 or early '17 and I don't want to wait another 2 years =(.

The 70" Vizio.

You can always return it if you are not happy once you get it home.
Seems there is always some new thing coming out in the future that will be better.

This is true and I've been debating it. Stopped at Costco again and watched the P70 and the guy told me I had 90 days to audition it and could return it for any reason whatsoever. Very tempting, I just wish they had the OLED in stock in the store that I could bring them both home haha. I've never owned an LCD because they were awful the last time I was in the market for a tv. They seem to have come a long way though and the vizio packs a lot of value for the price.

Other things I have to consider... I'd have to upgrade my receiver to a 4k model (have a denon 2112ci which is awesome just not 4k), and spend an extra $4 a month on 4k netflix. UHD blu ray players will probably be $500 when released and movies $40.

 

[fafrd]

This is true and I've been debating it. Stopped at Costco again and watched the P70 and the guy told me I had 90 days to audition it and could return it for any reason whatsoever. Very tempting, I just wish they had the OLED in stock in the store that I could bring them both home haha. I've never owned an LCD because they were awful the last time I was in the market for a tv. They seem to have come a long way though and the vizio packs a lot of value for the price.

Other things I have to consider... I'd have to upgrade my receiver to a 4k model (have a denon 2112ci which is awesome just not 4k), and spend an extra $4 a month on 4k netflix. UHD blu ray players will probably be $500 when released and movies $40.

If you bring a P70 home and go to the trouble to get it properly dialed-in (visit the Calibration thread), I can almost promise you will decide to keep it. 90 days is a nice long time to audition a new TV...

 

[Ken Ross]

This is true and I've been debating it. Stopped at Costco again and watched the P70 and the guy told me I had 90 days to audition it and could return it for any reason whatsoever. Very tempting, I just wish they had the OLED in stock in the store that I could bring them both home haha. I've never owned an LCD because they were awful the last time I was in the market for a tv. They seem to have come a long way though and the vizio packs a lot of value for the price.

Other things I have to consider... I'd have to upgrade my receiver to a 4k model (have a denon 2112ci which is awesome just not 4k), and spend an extra $4 a month on 4k netflix. UHD blu ray players will probably be $500 when released and movies $40.

If you've seen and appreciated OLED PQ, I suspect you won't be as overjoyed with the Vizio.

But if you're not as anal about PQ as many of us here, it's worth a shot with a retailer with a good return policy.

Either way, returning TVs, no matter how good the return policy, is a real hassle. I'd go back to Costco and make sure you're happy with the picture before making a decision.

 

[1959Dodge]

Myself, I would be very leary of buying any OLED "NON 4k panel TV" (IE Full HD),as is the LG9300.
I wonder how long replacement panels will be around for the TV, in the unlikely event that one fails.
I doubt you would be able to get one in a couple years or so, and even now, it seems like replacement
panels for the LG9300 can be an "issue", and at the very least, you could have a long wait.


I base this on a review of the LG9300 on Amazon.

"informed LG that it wasn't a mainboard problem but the panel (screen) was defective.
He said that panels for this TV were on back order and didn't have a date for delivery, but would schedule another visit next week hoping it would be in."


LG ended up replacing the whole TV due to the "back ordered panels". This of course would be
expensive after the one year warranty is out, and who knows if you could even find an LG9300 or a
panel for one is 3 years?


"To me", at least I would not want to bet my money on being able to get parts for the non (UHD 4k) TVs
in 3 years or so, especially OLED TV's as it would be very expensive to keep panel production lines producing both 4k and non 4k panels.


I could be wrong, but I won't bet my money on a 1920x1080 OLED TV.


You can go "Here" to see the whole review:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/review/R2H...iewpnt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00KZER5GS#R2H6B2Z9LWWWPI


Best of luck with your hunt!


Gary

 

[Ken Ross]

Gary, if a manufacturer offers to replace the entire TV with a new one, due to parts being unavailable, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Many get brand new, later model TVs as a result. I'll sign up for that!

The only downside I see, is if you had an ISF calibration and now need to get a new one. But I'd take that risk for a brand new TV.

 

[1959Dodge]

Gary, if a manufacturer offers to replace the entire TV with a new one, due to parts being unavailable, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Many get brand new, later model TVs as a result. I'll sign up for that!

The only downside I see, is if you had an ISF calibration and now need to get a new one. But I'd take that risk for a brand new TV.

I agree, it was not a "bad thing" for LG to replace the whole TV.
Butttt, the poster said he does not intend to update, (after this purchase), for another 5 years, and I just don't see the 1080 panels being available that long, perhaps for any 1920x1080 TV, but especially OLED..


Do you think LG will keep the production line going in 2 to 3 years from now?
Is the production line on those displays still going on, as of today?


That is the only reason I'm looking at UHD (4k) TVs now. Most likely it will be the last TV I buy, and while I know it probably won't last as long as my 9 year old Sharp has, I still want to get at least 5 years out of it, so I am trying to find "my best bet" on a TV that will last for 5 years, and that parts will be available for it during that time.


What do you think the "Odds" are of finding a replacement panel for a 9300 in 2 or 3 years?


Gary

 

[brianmlamb]

If you bring a P70 home and go to the trouble to get it properly dialed-in (visit thevCalibration thread), I can almost promise you will decide to keep it. 90 days is a nice long time to audition a new TV...

You're probably right, my father picked up an m70 on black friday and I thought it was pretty nice. I think though after having the wall taped off with the 70" size it's obnoxiously large for the space in the condo so I'd go for a 55-65". Waiting on vizio's press release next week to see what/if there's a new p-series announced and what the fate of the fabled R-series is.

If you've seen and appreciated OLED PQ, I suspect you won't be as overjoyed with the Vizio.

But if you're not as anal about PQ as many of us here, it's worth a shot with a retailer with a good return policy.

Either way, returning TVs, no matter how good the return policy, is a real hassle. I'd go back to Costco and make sure you're happy with the picture before making a decision.

I agree, I came very close to buying a zt plasma on closeout 2 years ago, but kept myself from pulling the trigger due to all the info I was reading about OLED's. I've been waiting for the price to drop and was hopeful this was the year I could get one. I've passed up the $2k 9300 deal 3 times now because I have a hard time convincing myself to forgo all the new tech coming out with UHD bluray and netflix's hdr/uhd programming. Trouble is the 4k resolution isn't worth $5500, or even really $3k to me at a 55" screen size. I'd pay a $500, maybe $750 premium over the 9300 to get 4k, but not double. I'm doubtful that the 4k 55" will hit sub $3k by the end of the year, and I've put off upgrading for the past 2, so waiting another year to year and a half is what's pushing me to consider a larger 4k LCD. I know the OLED will be superior, but unless I have the 2 in the same room watching the same content I probably will be none the wiser.

Other issue is Best Buy sucks and won't let me watch anything other than their stupid LG demo loop on the 9300 and I've been reading about all the motion issues. I just want to see if it bothers me or if it's no big deal yet I can't view any actual content to be able to make that call.

 

[loki993]

Other things I have to consider... I'd have to upgrade my receiver to a 4k model (have a denon 2112ci which is awesome just not 4k), and spend an extra $4 a month on 4k netflix. UHD blu ray players will probably be $500 when released and movies $40.

Just keep in mind that at least right now your spending an extra 4 dollars a month for 2 shows...2 shows that probably 60 percent of current netflix users have already seen. I know thre will probably be more...but Im not upgrading right now.

 

[Ken Ross]

I agree, it was not a "bad thing" for LG to replace the whole TV.
Butttt, the poster said he does not intend to update, (after this purchase), for another 5 years, and I just don't see the 1080 panels being available that long, perhaps for any 1920x1080 TV, but especially OLED..


Do you think LG will keep the production line going in 2 to 3 years from now?
Is the production line on those displays still going on, as of today?


That is the only reason I'm looking at UHD (4k) TVs now. Most likely it will be the last TV I buy, and while I know it probably won't last as long as my 9 year old Sharp has, I still want to get at least 5 years out of it, so I am trying to find "my best bet" on a TV that will last for 5 years, and that parts will be available for it during that time.


What do you think the "Odds" are of finding a replacement panel for a 9300 in 2 or 3 years?


Gary

If they replaced his HD display with a 4K display, I doubt he'd object.

I've seen some manufacturers offer to replace an existing display with a far more advanced unit for either no money or very little money.

 

[NintendoManiac64]

Other things I have to consider... I'd have to upgrade my receiver to a 4k model (have a denon 2112ci which is awesome just not 4k)

Well you don't actually have to, you could *gasp* use the TV's audio output.

...which AFAIK isn't a full audio passthrough idiotically enough.

 

[x3sphere]

I agree, it was not a "bad thing" for LG to replace the whole TV.
Butttt, the poster said he does not intend to update, (after this purchase), for another 5 years, and I just don't see the 1080 panels being available that long, perhaps for any 1920x1080 TV, but especially OLED..


Do you think LG will keep the production line going in 2 to 3 years from now?
Is the production line on those displays still going on, as of today?


That is the only reason I'm looking at UHD (4k) TVs now. Most likely it will be the last TV I buy, and while I know it probably won't last as long as my 9 year old Sharp has, I still want to get at least 5 years out of it, so I am trying to find "my best bet" on a TV that will last for 5 years, and that parts will be available for it during that time.


What do you think the "Odds" are of finding a replacement panel for a 9300 in 2 or 3 years?


Gary

Based on what LG has said the EC9300 is going EOL at the end of this year. From that point forward OLED will be all 4K, so it may be unlikely they'll have any replacement panels on hand 3 years from now. I guess you'll just get a 4K OLED as a replacement Most likely they'll be much cheaper by then, perhaps even cheaper than the EC9300 is now.

 

[fafrd]

If you've seen and appreciated OLED PQ, I suspect you won't be as overjoyed with the Vizio.

But if you're not as anal about PQ as many of us here, it's worth a shot with a retailer with a good return policy.

I've seen and appreciated OLED PQ (55EC9300) and while 'overjoyed' might be a bit of an overstatement, I know I am much happier having a P70 in my home right now than a 55EC9300. From the distance I sit (10-12') the larger 70" screen is much more enjoyable than a 55"'screen would have been, especially when watching widescreen letterbox content (which dominates our viewing). Have you ever seen a letterbox movie on a 55" screen from 12' back?

And from up-close (my teenage kids game ), also a no-contest - the P70 pixels are invisible from 2-3 feet back while the screen-door of the 55EC9300 stuck out like a sore thumb from that close-in distance and even my kids thought something looked 'wrong'.

If 55" is the right screen size for you and you have $2000 to spend, the 55EC9300 is the best $2000 55" TV in the market today. But if you need a larger screen, there are better options.

Either way, returning TVs, no matter how good the return policy, is a real hassle. I'd go back to Costco and make sure you're happy with the picture before making a decision.

That is one thing that makes no sense. The only thing you can tell from viewing a P70 in Costco is how invisible the SDE is from up close and perhaps some suggestive idea of off-angle viewing performance. The only way to judge a P70 is to bring one home, spend some time dialing it in, and audition on content for a week or two.

I have a great deal of respect for you Ken, but I frankly expect better from you. Any comment you have regarding the flagship TVs you own including the Sharp Elite and the Samsung F8500, I am all ears. And I also respect that you are sold on OLED and have positioned yourself as one of the leading proponents of the technology.

But when you dismiss a TV you have never owned based on a few early reviews you have read and suggest to a member to make a decision on that TV based on what he sees on the Costco showroom floor, you do your reputation amd the entire community a disservice.

If you have made up your mind that Vizio is the 'un-OLED' and that every member 'accepting' the inferior PQ of a $2000 P70 over the $2000 55EC9300 is somehow building a barrier to OLEDs eventual success, then so be it. But I'm hoping you are above that.

I've never owned a Sharp Elite, but I'm pretty certain that if you put a 70" Sharp Elite and a P70 in the same room, had them both calibrated, and asked me which I would prefer, the P70 or the Elite for 50% more ($3000), I'd probably prefer the P70.

I have owned a Panasonic 65ZT60 (that cost me $3000) and I can say that even at the same price, I would take the P70 over the plasma.

I occasionaly need bright-room viewing, off-angle performance is not important to me at all, and invisible letterbox bars when watching widescreen movies were a top priority for me (which the 65ZT60 did not deliver and the P70 does), so for what 'PQ' means to me, the P70 was a good fit (until 65-77" OLEDs mature and become more affordable).

The problem with your statement about being as 'anal about PQ as many of us here' is that 'PQ' is a multi-faceted and personal metric, and not some magical measure by which one TV can be universally determined to be inferior/superior to another objectively. When defending OLED, you clearly know this fact and use it whenever you can (your recent position regarding HDR being a good example - it's not important to you). It would be great to see some of that 'depending on what is important to you' attitude in an exchange such as this.

Oh, and as far as returning TVs to Costco, it's really not that big of a deal if you are a DIY type with access to a pickup truck. But the re-boxing is involved enough that I would never recommend to anyone to bring a TV home with the expectation of returning it. I thought I would fall in love with my 65ZT60 but I did not. For $3000, it was worth my while to box it up and bring it back to Best Buy. While waiting for WOLED to suit my needs, camping out with a P70 was the right choice for me.

 

[Dianabol5mg]

Someone needs to remind me about all of this 4K television watching they're doing. Oh, that's right.........they're not!!


And won't be for some time. But you can certainly watch your looping 4K demos for the next 2 years.

 

[Dianabol5mg]

I've never owned a Sharp Elite, but I'm pretty certain that if you put a 70" Sharp Elite and a P70 in the same room, had them both calibrated, and asked me which I would prefer, the P70 or the Elite for 50% more ($3000), I'd probably prefer the P70.

I have owned a Panasonic 65ZT60 (that cost me $3000) and I can say that even at the same price, I would take the P70 over the plasma.

I'm pretty certain all of the above is pure bs. If the p70's were any bit of awesome(which yours could be), we would all be buying them in droves and giving back our F8500's, ZT's, VT's, and Elites. Simply, this is not the case and I do not believe your statement.