Greetings
I don't have full 1080p capability, but I will take the superior contrast ratio over that anyday.
Regards
I don't have full 1080p capability, but I will take the superior contrast ratio over that anyday.
Regards
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720p display owners - An honest discussion on HD DVD detail.
I own a 42" Panasonic 1024x768 plasma. I viewed my first HD DVD last night - Apollo 13 - and was very pleased with the PQ. I'd have to say it was right up there with the most impressive HD I've seen, and this is saying alot since this was film, not video! It was certainly head and shoulders above any film I've ever seen on HDNET movies. I can't wait to see video on HD DVD.
Nonetheless, I have to admit the 1080p Westy at BB (while generally lousy to my eyes) did produce notably more detail than my 768 display could muster. It's not a difference most would likely notice, but I can detect it. I'm sure the difference would be easy to detect at 100"+ screen sizes, but I was surprised I could detect a difference at only 42". Now given, my panel isn't even full 720p, but I'm just curious if other ~720p owners have been able to detect the difference in detail between their displays and full 1080 units.
Nonetheless, I have to admit the 1080p Westy at BB (while generally lousy to my eyes) did produce notably more detail than my 768 display could muster. It's not a difference most would likely notice, but I can detect it. I'm sure the difference would be easy to detect at 100"+ screen sizes, but I was surprised I could detect a difference at only 42". Now given, my panel isn't even full 720p, but I'm just curious if other ~720p owners have been able to detect the difference in detail between their displays and full 1080 units.
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Hello,
what setting did you have your hd-dvd at? I am going to assume you had it at 1080i and using the hdmi to your panny...is your panny a 42px500U or 50U ??
The hd-dvd will produce the most pleasing and 'true' 'well as close to true' hd picture possible on the panny if you send it the resolution the disk was produced at.
Since hd-dvd are produced from 1080p masters, send it the 1080i signal (the highest and matching value form the hd-dvd player possible) ...if you sent the hd-dvd to 720p, you will actually be getting the upconverted 480p signal of the hd-dvd player...not even close to the 1080i signal possible. what happens the player will downconvert the 1080p original encoding to 480p and then upscale it to 720p, this results in an image worse then regular dvd upscaled.
Use the 1080i setting on the hd-dvd player, which I assume you are using, and would like to hear your comments..
thank you
Charles2006
what setting did you have your hd-dvd at? I am going to assume you had it at 1080i and using the hdmi to your panny...is your panny a 42px500U or 50U ??
The hd-dvd will produce the most pleasing and 'true' 'well as close to true' hd picture possible on the panny if you send it the resolution the disk was produced at.
Since hd-dvd are produced from 1080p masters, send it the 1080i signal (the highest and matching value form the hd-dvd player possible) ...if you sent the hd-dvd to 720p, you will actually be getting the upconverted 480p signal of the hd-dvd player...not even close to the 1080i signal possible. what happens the player will downconvert the 1080p original encoding to 480p and then upscale it to 720p, this results in an image worse then regular dvd upscaled.
Use the 1080i setting on the hd-dvd player, which I assume you are using, and would like to hear your comments..
thank you
Charles2006
I hear what you're saying Cory.
The detail I saw on the 42" Westinghouse display, as well as the detail to be seen on a projected Ruby- do seem to be a good bit better than what I can achieve right now with an XGA projected image. However other factors come into the mix too.
Right now I am still satisfied as this are simply the finest images my equipment has ever thrown. When I upgrade to a 720p and then a 1080p, i expect I will come to appreciate them even more.
The detail I saw on the 42" Westinghouse display, as well as the detail to be seen on a projected Ruby- do seem to be a good bit better than what I can achieve right now with an XGA projected image. However other factors come into the mix too.
Right now I am still satisfied as this are simply the finest images my equipment has ever thrown. When I upgrade to a 720p and then a 1080p, i expect I will come to appreciate them even more.
HD-DVD is phenomenal on my H77, but on a Ruby it looks much better.
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Don't worry, I was running it at 1080i to match the disc res as suggested by Tosh.
It's interesting how just 2 years ago I had an ED plasma and thought it was so close to HD it wasn't worth paying extra to step up. In the end, I swapped it for an HD plasma and I'm glad I did, but now just 24 months later I feel a bit behind the 8-ball again. We're lucky enough to have content strong enough to show 720p's deficiency (to some eyes). But hey, in the end we're really talking about a difference that only some zealots on this forum even detect. I can't complain about that.
| Originally Posted by charles2006 what setting did you have your hd-dvd at? |
It's interesting how just 2 years ago I had an ED plasma and thought it was so close to HD it wasn't worth paying extra to step up. In the end, I swapped it for an HD plasma and I'm glad I did, but now just 24 months later I feel a bit behind the 8-ball again. We're lucky enough to have content strong enough to show 720p's deficiency (to some eyes). But hey, in the end we're really talking about a difference that only some zealots on this forum even detect. I can't complain about that.
HD-DVDs on my Toshiba 720p DLP front-projector look great, but, no, they do not look as good as the 1080p display at Magnolia/Best Buy. However, that was a $5000-6000 60 or 70" rear-projector. I will remain happy with my under-$2500 92"-screen display until I can replace it with a similar-priced 1080p DLP (it will happen, some day).
My HD-A1 is set to 1080i, feeding the TDP-MT700 via HDMI.
My HD-A1 is set to 1080i, feeding the TDP-MT700 via HDMI.
The A1 looks great on my Mits WD-52725 DLP over HDMI and set to 1080i. I might be upgrading to the WD-62628 soon, though-- and not necessarily because of 1080p, but because of bigger screen size and lowered price tag at Best Buy.
I have the A-1 connected via HDMI to my SONY 50" LCD (1366 x 768). The detail is stunning. I have seen it on a 1080p display at BB and to be honest, I would probably have to see them side by side to notice the difference.
It looks phenomenal on anything I have hooked it up to so far.
HD DVD is not just about the resolution, the VC1 codec has been AMAzing at grabbing the original color space, black details, contrast - everything - and stuffing it into these discs.
My Samsuing LCD at 32' has 1366 x 768 resolution and it looks FAB http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7550066
The HD2K, of course, get the very most out of the discs, and that is A LOT http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7552831
I wish the photos could do it justice...
HD DVD is not just about the resolution, the VC1 codec has been AMAzing at grabbing the original color space, black details, contrast - everything - and stuffing it into these discs.
My Samsuing LCD at 32' has 1366 x 768 resolution and it looks FAB http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7550066
The HD2K, of course, get the very most out of the discs, and that is A LOT http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7552831
I wish the photos could do it justice...
Okay rdjam, that POTO screenshot is insane. I can't wait to see how it looks on my pdp tomorrow when the disc shows. I'd say the HD2K shots look crisper than your LCD. No surprise there!
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This question may not be placed in the proper place but I could not find a reference to it elsewhere, so here goes...
I understand that HD-DVD (and BD) downrez images that are not coming from the HDMI output. I have no HDMI inputs on my NEC HT-1100 projector but do have DVI. Anyone know the fate of a signel going out of the HD-DVD player's HDMI and through a DVI adaptor? Does it get through with full resolution to the projector or is it downrezed?
| Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV HD-DVDs on my Toshiba 720p DLP front-projector look great, but, no, they do not look as good as the 1080p display at Magnolia/Best Buy. However, that was a $5000-6000 60 or 70" rear-projector. I will remain happy with my under-$2500 92"-screen display until I can replace it with a similar-priced 1080p DLP (it will happen, some day). My HD-A1 is set to 1080i, feeding the TDP-MT700 via HDMI. |
I understand that HD-DVD (and BD) downrez images that are not coming from the HDMI output. I have no HDMI inputs on my NEC HT-1100 projector but do have DVI. Anyone know the fate of a signel going out of the HD-DVD player's HDMI and through a DVI adaptor? Does it get through with full resolution to the projector or is it downrezed?
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btokars, if you are asking for HD DVD discs, then no, the movie is not downrezzed through the HDMI unless the ICT flag is active on the disc (I believe it's dependent on the actual movie the studio releases). As for regular DVD's then the movies are not upconverted at all. Just as long as your PJ has a DVI port that supports HDCP and the handshake works (there have been some problems with digital handshakes) there shouldn't be a problem. Please, anybody correct me if I am wrong.
| Originally Posted by btokars This question may not be placed in the proper place but I could not find a reference to it elsewhere, so here goes... I understand that HD-DVD (and BD) downrez images that are not coming from the HDMI output. I have no HDMI inputs on my NEC HT-1100 projector but do have DVI. Anyone know the fate of a signel going out of the HD-DVD player's HDMI and through a DVI adaptor? Does it get through with full resolution to the projector or is it downrezed? |
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Yes, I was asking about HD DVD discs and quite forgot about the upconverting issue. It sounds as if I would be better off playing strandard DVDs on either my Momitsu or Samsung upconverting players instead of the HD-DVD unit (which I do not yet have). As for the HDCP and handshake issue, when I got the Samsung it would not play many discs ( nothing but a snowy screen) both commercial and my own video productions burned on my Mac. it wasn't until I learned about the hack to disable the HDCP function the Samsung that the player would play everything I put in it. So now that you bring up the HDCP and handshake question, I am wondering if the projector will play nice with the player? It seems that, given my Samsung experience, I very well could have some issues. Perhaps it will require a new projector (something that is sure to cause a distruption in the domestic tranquility status).
I had been planning on sitting out the HD-DVD/BD war but now that NetFlix has announced they are renting (will be renting) both formats and no price increase, my hardline delaying position is softening. Let's see, a new HD-DVD player AND a new projector...I better duck.
Thanks for the information.
| Originally Posted by Paul_Seng btokars, if you are asking for HD DVD discs... As for regular DVD's then the movies are not upconverted at all.. |
I had been planning on sitting out the HD-DVD/BD war but now that NetFlix has announced they are renting (will be renting) both formats and no price increase, my hardline delaying position is softening. Let's see, a new HD-DVD player AND a new projector...I better duck.
Thanks for the information.
Personally I dont think owners of 720p screens are qualified to make comments on high definition - it might look great, almost certainly better than regular dvd, but your not seeing all the detail the format offers.
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You have got to be kidding! 720P is HD and in some ways can deliver a better picture than 1080i and there is no 1080p source commonly available. Unbelievable, that you would make such an ignorant statement.
| Originally Posted by cybersoga Personally I dont think owners of 720p screens are qualified to make comments on high definition - it might look great, almost certainly better than regular dvd, but your not seeing all the detail the format offers. |
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I would say we are qualifed being that 720P is HD, and reading the title of this thread might offer some insight") I"m using the A1 on a Benq 7700 and the picture is OUTSTANDING! Not as good as the 1080P sets, yet it will hold me over until prices come down, down, down for 1080P.
| Originally Posted by cybersoga Personally I dont think owners of 720p screens are qualified to make comments on high definition - it might look great, almost certainly better than regular dvd, but your not seeing all the detail the format offers. |
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Actually, I've found that not necessarily to be true. In fact, I was just comparing HD-DVD yesterday, running the same feed (through a good splitter) to several displays: 50" Plasma, 37" LCD (a few other displays) and a Toshiba 71" 1080p DLP.
Consistent with my other experience looking at resolution differences, in real world applications (e.g. video, not merely test signals) the vast majority of the detail DOES make it to the 720p displays. I looked not only with the video playing, but paused many shots to compare detail (from the Toshiba demo disc, both the movie trailers and the travel stuff shot in Hi-Def). No matter where I looked in the frame on the big 1080p display, I could see pretty much the same details on the smaller non-1080p displays. Of course, the details were more ready to the eye in the bigger display.
What I find is that, especially when comparing 720p displays to 1080p displays, the source resolution counts more than the display resolution, in terms of actually seeing more image detail. In other words, I can readily see increased details on HD-DVDs compared to their SD counterparts, on the same display. However, the same HD-DVD does not show the same obvious jump in detail increase, when the display resolution jumps from 720p to 1080p.
(Certainly, there may be some more detail somewhere in there, but from what I've seen it's exceedingly subtle).
Rather, the major difference I find in the higher res 1080p displays is the way they present the detail. That is, both 720p and 1080p appear to show much the same detail, but the detail appears more finely and smoothly rendered on the higher res device. Not "more," but "slightly better."
At least, that's what I've found in a number of such comparisons. And this is coming from someone who wants 1080p as his next display.
| Originally Posted by cybersoga Personally I dont think owners of 720p screens are qualified to make comments on high definition - it might look great, almost certainly better than regular dvd, but your not seeing all the detail the format offers. |
Consistent with my other experience looking at resolution differences, in real world applications (e.g. video, not merely test signals) the vast majority of the detail DOES make it to the 720p displays. I looked not only with the video playing, but paused many shots to compare detail (from the Toshiba demo disc, both the movie trailers and the travel stuff shot in Hi-Def). No matter where I looked in the frame on the big 1080p display, I could see pretty much the same details on the smaller non-1080p displays. Of course, the details were more ready to the eye in the bigger display.
What I find is that, especially when comparing 720p displays to 1080p displays, the source resolution counts more than the display resolution, in terms of actually seeing more image detail. In other words, I can readily see increased details on HD-DVDs compared to their SD counterparts, on the same display. However, the same HD-DVD does not show the same obvious jump in detail increase, when the display resolution jumps from 720p to 1080p.
(Certainly, there may be some more detail somewhere in there, but from what I've seen it's exceedingly subtle).
Rather, the major difference I find in the higher res 1080p displays is the way they present the detail. That is, both 720p and 1080p appear to show much the same detail, but the detail appears more finely and smoothly rendered on the higher res device. Not "more," but "slightly better."
At least, that's what I've found in a number of such comparisons. And this is coming from someone who wants 1080p as his next display.
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every HD-DVD so far is encoded at 1952x1080/24p - 1280x720 is much lower resolution than is encoded on the discs, so how can you possibly see all that detail on a 720p screen?
| Originally Posted by chris062 You have got to be kidding! 720P is HD and in some ways can deliver a better picture than 1080i and there is no 1080p source commonly available. Unbelievable, that you would make such an ignorant statement. |
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Except every currently available HD-DVD........ Don't confuse transport format (1080I) with source resolution (1080P).
Vern
| there is no 1080p source commonly available |
Vern
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