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Discussion Starter #1
We know we have the following 720p projectors coming on the market by the end of the year.


The Sanyo Z4

The Epson TW600

Mitsubishi HC3000

the LG (ok maybe not, but grant me that there will be at least one more 1280x768 dlp, INFS or otherwise)

Panasonic AE(800?)D5 chipper


Given all this competition, and given the very low msrp we've had reported on the seeming cream of the crop spec wise (the TW600 at $2,300) what do people think we are going to see when these new pjs roll onto the market?


In this last generation we had basically two pjs, the ae700 and the hs51 (the z3 being at least a half generation behind), now we're talking about a half dozen, plus these two carryovers - regardless of what their product plans have been the manufacturers are going to be under enormous pressure to start off priced competitively or face falling by the wayside. We're still a niche market - dealers, heck, even mass retailers, are not going to carry more then 2 or 3 of these pjs and 720p is now the meat of their sales volume - is the market being set up for a price war?
 

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You know what? I'm just sitting here shaking my head, wondering why Epson would not be releasing their own 1080p FP unit to the masses. I hope Sony does. But it doesn't surprise me if the LCD boys are just milking us for more money another year before releasing their 1080p D5 products. TI & company has been doing that for years.


If they're not planning to release any 1080p D5 based products this year, I hope they're working on including the C2 Fine technology they demonstrated earlier this year at Infocomm 2005 in Las Vegas.


Image using coventional technology
http://www.epson.co.jp/e/newsroom/im...050524_b_m.jpg


Image using new C2 Fine technology
http://www.epson.co.jp/e/newsroom/im...050524_a_m.jpg


New Epson HTPS Panels for 3LCD Projectors to Include Inorganic Alignment Layer
http://www.epson.co.jp/e/newsroom/20...2005_05_24.htm
 

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There are supposedly production issues with the 1080 panels. I think they'd love to be able to release them but can't in mass.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Souki - as madpoet noted, there seem to be real issues with volume production on the 1080 - if you look at Epson's own corporate website they announced volume production almost 6 months ago - if the fab was churning them out without problems there would be a glut of 1080 chips waiting for projectors. The entire reason for production samples is to allow manufacturers to design their products that will use the chip so that they can roll them out when production volumes come on line. The silence is deafening.


That's one of the reason I started this thread. Normally one would think that with 1080 stalled on both the dlp and lcd side that 720 would remain high end, particularly with the process improvements. But with a cheaper DMD hitting the market at the same time as the upgraded lcd there are just too many competitors for us to expect everyone to play nice.


On the plus side, a 720p price war will goad on the manufacturers even more to push 1080 to market, as that will be the step necessary to bring their margins back up.
 

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At first many thought the Z3 was behind but after shootouts and much more feedback rolled in, many preferred it over the 700. It was on the same level as the two you mentioned.


"LCD boys are just milking us for more money another year before releasing their 1080p D5 products"


If they don't release the 1080P's this year and that still isn't in stone. That would be a total of 1 year milking, not year after year. DLP now they've been doing some milking with their 720's being priced so high, but it seems that is finally changing.


C2 Fine looks like hardware based fdshow! That would be very slick. :)
 

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Epson's C2Fine and Sony's Bi:NA should make for a really nice upgrade over traditional LCD projectors. The inorganic layer will hopefully lay to rest the fears of LCD degradation over time. The vertical alignment will dramatically increase contrast. There should also be a big jump in aperture ratio (fill factor) which will significantly reduce the SDE. In the meantime, the D5 720P LCD projectors look to offer really nice performance at a very fair price.
 

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Scott B and others

Tell me this. Why would vertical alignment with next generation lcd provide dramatic increase in contrast. Sxrd and d-ila is VA and totally maxed out they seem to reach 2500:1.

Stability of inorganics is very welcome though.
 

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Mattias,

The vertical alignment does greatly increase the fill factor which will increase light throughput (efficiency) and presumably scatter. Not sure if this is the primary reason for the increase in contrast. BTW, C2Fine and Bi:NA should easily surpass 2500:1 without dynamic irises or lamp modulation techniques.
 

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According to Epson, C2Fine should be shipping in products in 2006. That sounds about right. Get everybody to upgrade to a D5 LCD projector this year, and then entice everybody to upgrade next year to a C2Fine projector. Oh well, I will definitely be one of those suckers Epson is counting on.


I think Sony's timing is about the same with Bi:NA
 

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Upgrading to a 720p is tempting but looks like I'd be better off waiting untill 2006 to get a 720p with C2 fine


Until then my SP4805 will have to do :)
 

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pestario,

You are always better off waiting. The problem is that upgraditis is a sickness that is virtually impossible to ignore.
 

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I'll hang on for another year until 720p DLP projectors come down substantially. Until then 480p is pretty reasonable.
 

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Version,

I think that 720P DLP is going to have a problem picture quality wise with C2Fine and Bi:NA. Heck, I would think that the D5 projectors will give them a good run for the money. Of course for those like myself who find watching single chip DLP uncomfortable, DLP is not really a consideration. I suspect that the very rapid advancements in LCD will lead to the development of reasonably priced three chip DLP.
 

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I wouldn't count DLP out for the count yet. New DLPs will feature BrilliantColor technology along with dynamic iris.
 

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I am sure that this will all result in improved DLP performance. Don't get me wrong. I really like the look of single chip DLP, but I cannot live with the discomfort. Now if they can get rid of that spinning colour wheel thingy then we are really getting somewhere. Alas, even with SIM2s recent offering, 3-chip DLPs still begin in the high teens.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjv123
OP-


how is the Z3 a "half-generation behind" the AE700?


can't take you seriously.
Spec wise, CR in particular it did not measure up to the ae700 and hs51 - that being said, head to head testing has shown them to perform much more closely then a comment like "half generation behind" would indiciate.


Of course, that being said, the market, which is infinately more informed then you or I, has seen fit to place a pretty consistent 25% premium on the ae700 over the z3 which would tend to endorse the original impression that the z3 is just a step behind the two leading LCD projectors of this generation.
 

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I believe in terms of release time the Z3 was a bit later than the 700, and was much slower to catch on.
 
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