720p vs. 1080p @ 42"?
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It depends on the other technology in the plasma and also your viewing distance.
42" being watched at 10-12' ? Probably doesn't matter.
42" being watched at 6-7' ? Matters.
It depends on the other technology in the plasma and also your viewing distance.
42" being watched at 10-12' ? Probably doesn't matter.
42" being watched at 6-7' ? Matters.
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I'd buy a 720p 50" for the same money as a 42" 1080p set. Unless you sit really close larger is better.
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Yep and the high end models won't sell 720p tv's.
Yep and the high end models won't sell 720p tv's.
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304 Posts
720p can actually be alot better then 1080p. Remember the 720p pioneers in 2006 or 2007 that kicked the 1080p plasmas ass in PQ resolution isnt everything and pioneer proved that.
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Everything that is 720p now is the low end Plasma. They even drop it lower than normal HD resolution with 1024X768 (should be 1366x768) to encourage you further to go for 1080p.
Everything that is 720p now is the low end Plasma. They even drop it lower than normal HD resolution with 1024X768 (should be 1366x768) to encourage you further to go for 1080p.
Ironically, neither those resolutions called '720p' are really 720p, that is to say, 1280x720p; one is better (1366x768p), and one is worse (1024x768p).
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A big misnomer, that has been going on for years, is the TV industry calling anything less than 1920x1080p as '720p', while they have been using various resolutions.
Anyway, at a typical distances for a 42" plasma, some of us see the pixel structure on 1024x768p plasma, so that why I decided not to buy one. For me, a 42" plasma would have to be 1368x768p to consider it, but there are none anymore.
I'll echo what others have said, it depends on the viewing distance.
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Ironically, neither those resolutions called '720p' are really 720p, that is to say, 1280x720p; one is better (1366x768p), and one is worse (1024x768p).
Anyway, at a typical distances for a 42" plasma, some of us see the pixel structure on 1024x768p plasma, so that why I decided not to buy one. For me, a 42" plasma would have to be 1368x768p to consider it, but there are none anymore.
I'll echo what others have said, it depends on the viewing distance.
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well I just meant resolution isnt everything. Back in like 2006 the pionner 720p plasmas looked better then the competitors plasmas even when they were 1080p. It's a proven fact. So if Pioneer could make a 720p set look better then competitors 1080p sets then that must mean that just cause a set is 1080p doesnt mean it will look better then a 720p. This is all I meant and 42 inches is kinda small if you are 8 or more feet away from it unless you got eagle eyes you wont see the difference between 1080p and 720p
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It's a numbers game for marketing purposes. Just like thin is in now with little relevance to PQ. Easily measurable and compared so heuristically makes a complex decision making easier.
IMHO it depends on the source most commonly used (which affects the scaling) and the distance where a person can see a difference. There are actually people with "hawk eyes" which is why the distance argument never ends
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It's a numbers game for marketing purposes. Just like thin is in now with little relevance to PQ. Easily measurable and compared so heuristically makes a complex decision making easier.
IMHO it depends on the source most commonly used (which affects the scaling) and the distance where a person can see a difference. There are actually people with "hawk eyes" which is why the distance argument never ends
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Yes this chat has been posted many times. What I am trying to say is that the distance argument will never end because some has sharper vision than others. We have people claiming to have screen door effect with modern plasmas 
This chart is just a general guide.
This chart is just a general guide.
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Not using 1:1 pixel mapping is a far bigger offender than the 720p vs 1080p debate. Unless you are running 1:1 you aren't getting the benefit of a 1080p set anyways...
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I bought a 46" 720p plasma earlier this year and I don't regret that I didn't get the 1080p for a second. Granted, this is our secondary HDTV which is primarily used for watching television via DirecTV and Netflix streaming, but even with BluRay Discs I have a hard time seeing a difference with my 57" 1080p television.
Honestly, if you really want the 1080p go for it, but you may want to consider either saving some money and go with a 720p of the same size, or get something bigger in 720p.
Honestly, if you really want the 1080p go for it, but you may want to consider either saving some money and go with a 720p of the same size, or get something bigger in 720p.
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I believe I remember reading an article on this somewhere else. From what I remember, the eye can notice differences in vertical resolution much easier vs. noticing horizontal resolution. Meaning the eye has trouble finding a distinguishable difference between the horizontal 1366, 1280, or 1024 lines of resolution of individual 720p sets. Whereas the eye can more easily notice difference between the (vertical resolution) of a ____ x 720 signal to that of a ____ X 1080p signal.
However, if you consider that most people and sites are saying you can't tell true detail differences between a quality 720p set vs. a 1080p set (vertical resolutions), you would most certainly not expect people to notice differences in the horizontal resolutions of those respective 720p sets.
In fact, I believe most newer sets are now 768p technically. If the eye can distinguish this vertical resolution better, than newer "720p" sets have actually increased in terms of detail resolution.
I think they also pointed out a counter argument that newer 720p plasmas aren't a true 16:9 ratio, but then explained that 16:9 ratio in terms of HD television is not related to pixel structure, but to overall TV ratio..... and that the eye cannot distinguish a 16:9 TV panel of square pixels vs. a 16:9 panel of not-so-square pixels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 /forum/post/19506587
Ironically, neither those resolutions called '720p' are really 720p, that is to say, 1280x720p; one is better (1366x768p), and one is worse (1024x768p).A big misnomer, that has been going on for years, is the TV industry calling anything less than 1920x1080p as '720p', while they have been using various resolutions.![]()
Anyway, at a typical distances for a 42" plasma, some of us see the pixel structure on 1024x768p plasma, so that why I decided not to buy one. For me, a 42" plasma would have to be 1368x768p to consider it, but there are none anymore.
I'll echo what others have said, it depends on the viewing distance.![]()
I believe I remember reading an article on this somewhere else. From what I remember, the eye can notice differences in vertical resolution much easier vs. noticing horizontal resolution. Meaning the eye has trouble finding a distinguishable difference between the horizontal 1366, 1280, or 1024 lines of resolution of individual 720p sets. Whereas the eye can more easily notice difference between the (vertical resolution) of a ____ x 720 signal to that of a ____ X 1080p signal.
However, if you consider that most people and sites are saying you can't tell true detail differences between a quality 720p set vs. a 1080p set (vertical resolutions), you would most certainly not expect people to notice differences in the horizontal resolutions of those respective 720p sets.
In fact, I believe most newer sets are now 768p technically. If the eye can distinguish this vertical resolution better, than newer "720p" sets have actually increased in terms of detail resolution.
I think they also pointed out a counter argument that newer 720p plasmas aren't a true 16:9 ratio, but then explained that 16:9 ratio in terms of HD television is not related to pixel structure, but to overall TV ratio..... and that the eye cannot distinguish a 16:9 TV panel of square pixels vs. a 16:9 panel of not-so-square pixels.
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I see a huge improvement on my 42" 1080p set over my 42" 720p set. I can't stand watching the 720p set but the SO likes it so it's staying. My eyes are 8 feet from both screens (bedroom and den). And a 1080p set usually has better processing and colors and adjustability, and much much less SDE.
It is to me, but it may not be to you or to others. I gladly pay a premium for 1080p - even on a small 32" TV or a 20" PC monitor. The only way i'd ever buy a 720p anything ever again would be if i simply could not afford a 1080p unit.
Whether or not you can see the difference depends on various factors like (A) how close you're eyes are to the screen and (B) what kind of content you'll be watching and (C) what your particular sources are. Answer these questions and you'll get the right feedback for your particular situation.
It's also a good idea to go to some stores and get real close to a 720p screen and look at how the SDE looks (the black dividers between the individual pixels) then slowly back away until your eyes can no longer see these dividers and take note of how many feet away you are. I can see the SDE on my 42 incher at 10 feet. Others may need to get to within 6 feet to see it.
Here's a whole official thread about 720p vs 1080p:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768167
I see a huge improvement on my 42" 1080p set over my 42" 720p set. I can't stand watching the 720p set but the SO likes it so it's staying. My eyes are 8 feet from both screens (bedroom and den). And a 1080p set usually has better processing and colors and adjustability, and much much less SDE.
It is to me, but it may not be to you or to others. I gladly pay a premium for 1080p - even on a small 32" TV or a 20" PC monitor. The only way i'd ever buy a 720p anything ever again would be if i simply could not afford a 1080p unit.
Whether or not you can see the difference depends on various factors like (A) how close you're eyes are to the screen and (B) what kind of content you'll be watching and (C) what your particular sources are. Answer these questions and you'll get the right feedback for your particular situation.
It's also a good idea to go to some stores and get real close to a 720p screen and look at how the SDE looks (the black dividers between the individual pixels) then slowly back away until your eyes can no longer see these dividers and take note of how many feet away you are. I can see the SDE on my 42 incher at 10 feet. Others may need to get to within 6 feet to see it.
Here's a whole official thread about 720p vs 1080p:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768167
It depends on the technology... LCD's purely suck on viewing 42" and higher with 720p standards.
HD standards come in 3 flavors. 420p 720p and 1080p and so much content has been upconverted to 720p and 1080p at various levels.
Most broadcasted sports is in 720p and shows being 720p. It is rarer to see true non-upscaled 1080p content without having the lastest blueray releases.
With any blueray player you can select 720p as the output and make the best with a 720p 42" to 50" tv.
I just purchased a Panasonic TC-P42C2 as it will be the last 720p Plasma you can buy after next years models will all be 1080p.
It will be for the bedroom as viewing will be about 11 feet from the bed.
With all the whoopla about downconverting a 1080 picture to 768, is a bit overated. Unless your looking at older tvs.
It is near the end of 2010 and how many reviews go and show comparsons of 1080 and 720 on similar sets. Example TC-P50X22 vs TC-P50-X2.
All the whoopla is old stuff and greatly needs updating.
Mind you the Panasonic 720p has 600hz processing as not many 720p tvs have this a few years ago.
It is your choice... what ever you decide on, will be what ever catches your eye on display.
HD standards come in 3 flavors. 420p 720p and 1080p and so much content has been upconverted to 720p and 1080p at various levels.
Most broadcasted sports is in 720p and shows being 720p. It is rarer to see true non-upscaled 1080p content without having the lastest blueray releases.
With any blueray player you can select 720p as the output and make the best with a 720p 42" to 50" tv.
I just purchased a Panasonic TC-P42C2 as it will be the last 720p Plasma you can buy after next years models will all be 1080p.
It will be for the bedroom as viewing will be about 11 feet from the bed.
With all the whoopla about downconverting a 1080 picture to 768, is a bit overated. Unless your looking at older tvs.
It is near the end of 2010 and how many reviews go and show comparsons of 1080 and 720 on similar sets. Example TC-P50X22 vs TC-P50-X2.
All the whoopla is old stuff and greatly needs updating.
Mind you the Panasonic 720p has 600hz processing as not many 720p tvs have this a few years ago.
It is your choice... what ever you decide on, will be what ever catches your eye on display.
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