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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am not sure if there is much "hands-on" discussion about the new 4K panels here in the forum as yet. I searched around briefly. I now have the LG 84LM9600 84" 4K resolution LED panel on my family room wall. I am willing to share the experience and I have questions which over time I trust will stir discussion here.


To start with, I managed, I guess, to leapfrog the 1080p plasma and LCD/LED technologies. This new 84" panel replaces a 13 year-old fully functional Pioneer PRO-710HD RPTV. The picture on this Elite set was so amazing for its day and the 64" size so gratifying that I could not bring myself to replace it with a smaller panel. And so my opinions of the image quality of the 4K panel need to be taken in the context of my reference point, that being the PRO-710HD. I have had little experience with plasma sets or with smaller LED panels (other than on my computers).


What finally broke the camel's back getting us to "upgrade" was the lack of HDMI inputs and the limited resolutions on the Elite (1080i, 480p, 480i). For that reason my AVR, DVR, DVD and Roku had to be all interconnected by means other than HDMI. I eventually picked up an HDFury2 to give the Elite set an HDMI input. Prompt me and I will be happy to tell you about HDMI converters and HDCP.


It all started with an upgrade to an HD Roku which to my surprise only supported HDMI. I have an Elite VSX-21TXH which can switch HDMI but naturally won't route video from an HDMI input to the component output. So along comes the HDFury2. However, the Roku only supports 1080p and 720p neither of which the PRO-710HD could handle. Okay, so the Roku went back in the box for a short time.


I then made the decision to get out of the dark ages and into a panel. This was last fall when rumors of 4K panels shipping were starting to fly. I began to look into it and prompted my friends at The Stereo Shop here in Greensburg, PA to look into it for me. I thought about a large Panasonic plasma display but the lure of experiencing the next level (that being 4K) was too strong.


On another front, I had stopped buying DVDs some time ago. I have a collection roughly centered in science fiction. We began streaming through Roku and I would hold off any thoughts of purchase thinking that if I were to buy that I should be buying Blu-Ray. We just didn't have the setup for real high definition. Now with the decision to move into a (potentially 4K) panel behind me, I upgraded the player to the Oppo BDP-103.


With the PRO-710HD we could see the difference with the Blu-Ray format. We were still limited to 1080i however. I realized after a bit that the BDP-103 has an HDMI input on the back where it would happily process a 1080p input and output the 1080i resolution. So the HD Roku came online.


I was expecting it to take until April before I could really get a 4K panel and convince myself and the wife to accept the expense. It was a surprise when The Stereo Shop called having gotten the LG 84LM9600 into the showroom for me. It (actually a second one as the store decided to keep the first one on display there) was installed and calibrated this past week.


Now this post is long enough. I have quite a few points that I will subsequently make. It is probably best to break them out. You tell me if this thread is the place to cover all of the related topics or if I should start new threads. I already have notes on issues with the mix of inputs on the set, speaker location, the remote control, what 4K content is already available, etc. Also let me know what you would like to see as far as pictures.


To begin with, I am willing to share the calibration report. If anyone is interested, please tell me how best to post it or send it along. Scott Wilkinson, you might be interested as I know that you have been covering calibration in recent Home Theater Geeks episodes. I don't think that the calibrator was nearly as meticulous as I would have been. The results do not hit the ideal points dead on although from a qualitative point of view the images and skin tones in the calibrated mode have been superb. The results are very satisfying. So I am not sure that the calibration is a completely accurate representation of the LG 4K panel's characteristics or at least any indication of any limitation. But I wouldn't mind comments from those experienced in the art.


Bruce
 

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Bruce I LOVE this post! Can't wait to hear your impressions and experiences. Pix too please.


Btw my translation of all this is that your $59 Roku box led to you upgrading around $40000 worth of gear. I absolutely freaking love that. Sort of like the leaky roof I had which led to a massive, 18 month renovation of my home in which nothing was left untouched (true story).


Anyway thanks for chiming in. I look forward to much more.


EDIT - I remember the Pio 710 well. Incredible set. My local shop ran The Fifth Element DVD on a loop on that set. Looked amazing. Reference before I knew what that was.
 

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Bruce, I can relate to your situation with the Pioneer. I have the PRO-720, 10 years and counting. Great picture and 64-inch size, but no HDMI. This looks like the time for me to upgrade to today's tech, but it's hard to decide what display to get after being Elite-spoiled for a decade. I'm looking forward to your posts on the LG.
 

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First off, congratulations on your new Ultra Def TV!
This is a dream TV for most of us, and that dream is your reality. I am really looking forward to your impressions on this TV. I have been interested in this 84" behemoth ever since it was shown at last years CES. I am very serious about buying one, but right now even the minimum advertised price of $17K is more than I'm willing to spend. If I can get one through an authorized retailer for $15K or less, then this TV will be my reality as well.


The things that are most important to me, are how does this TV look with upconverted Blu-ray? How does HD satellite or HD cable look? And how does 3D Blu-ray look, now that it's being displayed at full HD resolution? How well does the local dimming feature work? How smooth is the picture with fast motion?


Sorry for all the questions, I just need to know how this TV performs in real world use before I commit to buying one.


Thanks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32  /t/1458714/84lm9600-in-reality#post_22979000



Sorry for all the questions, I just need to know how this TV performs in real world use before I commit to buying one.


Thanks.

We all need to know! Bruce's report is the first I've seen on AVS from an actual 'ownership' standpoint.


Congrats Bruce! We'd all love to hear your perceptions of the LG's PQ. I too am curious to hear how we'll it upconverts regular HD content. How are the black levels, screen uniformity, etc?
 

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Congrats. You should start an Official owners thread. Does LG have a PC 4K home server like Sony, for showing off 4K movies? Can you see much real world difference in the 4K upscaling of 1080p material? Do they have any 6MP passive 3D material for you to try out? These were selling for around $17K in California, was yours around the same? I was also curious about how well the IPS panel handles off axis viewing in the home. Are you worried about needing HDMI 1.5 inputs to get 4K at 60hz, since 1.4 is topped at 30? Also, post some pics if you can. They might not accurately reflect what you are seeing, but they are fun to look at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody  /t/1458714/84lm9600-in-reality#post_22976503


Btw my translation of all this is that your $59 Roku box led to you upgrading around $40000 worth of gear. I absolutely freaking love that. Sort of like the leaky roof I had which led to a massive, 18 month renovation of my home in which nothing was left untouched (true story).

Well the Roku catalyzed something that was inevitable and about to happen anyway. You are well over 2X what I've laid out though. That includes the pair of Klipsch RF-82s that I hadn't mentioned.


Don't picture a fancy theater setup. The 84LM9600 is on the wall (32" from the floor... we debated) but there are wires hanging everywhere. I will be renovating the room and dealing with that at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32  /t/1458714/84lm9600-in-reality#post_22979000


The things that are most important to me, are how does this TV look with upconverted Blu-ray? How does HD satellite or HD cable look? And how does 3D Blu-ray look, now that it's being displayed at full HD resolution? How well does the local dimming feature work? How smooth is the picture with fast motion?

I am just starting to experiment with the various picture option settings so as to formulate an opinion and to how they work and what the trade-offs might be. Out of the box and after calibration the images are remarkable. I don't want to force myself to be too critical too soon.


One test that we performed at the Stereo Shop with their panel and I did again at home (we both have the Oppo BDP-103 connected) is interesting. Using a Blu-Ray (Total Recall) we set the Oppo to output 1080p resolution and sat back to watch. I will tell you that curved lines such as the sides of faces and the like are smooth. Amazing is how well it looks and continues to look as you walk right up to the screen. You can feel the heat of the LEDs on your face and not see pixels. It is almost an IMAX experience at that point.


We then switched the Oppo to output 4K resolution allowing it to upconvert. Again the images were superb but there is a difference we think in the motion. It is my preference and that of most who stood around in awe while we were playing, was that it was better to let the LG panel do the upconvert. It is a matter of preference for certain. I suspect that the LG rendered the incoming 4K as is. With 1080p input it both upconverted and generated frames.


So we pushed over a Panasonic 65" VT-50 plasma and started a second copy of the same DVD. Okay so this set had some other DVD player and not an Oppo. So even though we hit Play simultaneously the Oppo blew away the other player and we could not get the films synchronized. It was close enough though. That places a star on the Oppo for sure.. I mean... if you are the impatient type. It loads very quickly.


After comparing the two panel technologies, I preferred the LG. Yes it is an LED set and the other was Plasma and again depending on your preferences... but the pixel density at the size of that LG panel left no question in my mind which I preferred.


As for the edge lighting. You can detect it with Black Level set to High. To me it is not objectionable. Remember now that we had an RPTV before and light leaked all around inside that. That did get a lot better after I would clean the optics though. With the Black level set to Low the edge lighting wasn't detectable. Black is really black too. I am not sure though that I am ready for so much image contrast.


Anyway... I should get back to work. I'll keep posting. Thanks for all the "congrats".


Bruce
 

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Thank you for sharing your initial impressions.
It sounds like so far, you're very impressed with the PQ of this TV. And that's great to hear that up-scaled Blu-ray's look amazing. This is very important to me, as I have a library of approx. 700 Blu-ray's. I watch a bit of HD satellite also, and am curious as to how well that will look. Do you watch HD satellite or HD cable? If so, what are your thoughts on the PQ with that on this new TV?


And that's cool that you own an Oppo BDP-103! I just got one myself (region free hardware modified), and I LOVE it! I also have an Oppo BDP-93, and that has performed perfectly as well. Good to know that the TV's up-scaler does a splendid job, and even a bit better than the one in the Oppo. Look forward to some more input on this TV after you've had more time to spend with it. So far it sure looks like this TV is the one for me.




Seth
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscloutier  /t/1458714/84lm9600-in-reality#post_22980680



So we pushed over a Panasonic 65" VT-50 plasma and started a second copy of the same DVD. Okay so this set had some other DVD player and not an Oppo. So even though we hit Play simultaneously the Oppo blew away the other player and we could not get the films synchronized. It was close enough though. That places a star on the Oppo for sure.. I mean... if you are the impatient type. It loads very quickly.


Bruce

The Stereo Shop should have run a second HDMI out of the Oppo BDP-103 to the VT-50. Then both screens would be synchronized from the same sorce. Maybe next time.

Thank you for sharing. We look forward to hearing more of your reviews.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32  /t/1458714/84lm9600-in-reality#post_22982524


Do you watch HD satellite or HD cable? If so, what are your thoughts on the PQ with that on this new TV?

We use satellite (DirecTV) with cable only for Internet connectivity. So far I have been very pleased with how this LG panel is rendering everything. It seems to improve even the older DVDs that I have. But again, you have to realize that we have just spent over a decade happy with an RPTV. I cannot compare it to other 1080p LED sets. I am loving it though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32  /t/1458714/84lm9600-in-reality#post_22982524


And that's cool that you own an Oppo BDP-103! I just got one myself (region free hardware modified), and I LOVE it! I also have an Oppo BDP-93, and that has performed perfectly as well. Good to know that the TV's up-scaler does a splendid job, and even a bit better than the one in the Oppo.

For some reason with the current Oppo firmware the BDP-103 crashes in the Netflix app. I haven't checked around to see if anyone else is experiencing this. There is probably a debugging procedure that I could do. Perhaps a factory reset to see if the issue goes away. Fortunately I have 2 other ways to get Netflix, the Roku and the 84LM9600.


In fairness to the upconversion that is present in the Oppo, I am thinking that the HDMI connection may be a limitation.


As for 4K demos... In the YouTube app on the 84LM9600, search for "4K" and start the sequence of videos. There isn't a lot but it does stream well and the images are spectacular. Plus, a couple of reviews pop up. The full Timescape movie is $100 delivered in 4K on a USB stick. For $400 they will send an external drive with a much less compressed version. The 84LM9600 does have one USB port setup for an external HDD but as near as I can tell it is not compatible with the CODEC for Timescape on the HDD version.
 

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Bruce my narrative of the $59 box causing $40000 in upgrades is way more fun



Anyway I'm super jealous of the set. I hear you about the otherwise modest set up and installation. I can certainly agree that I'd rather have an amazing giant picture in an otherwise plain space than a crazy decorated home theater with a small crappy picture!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscloutier  /t/1458714/84lm9600-in-reality#post_22983739


We use satellite (DirecTV) with cable only for Internet connectivity. So far I have been very pleased with how this LG panel is rendering everything. It seems to improve even the older DVDs that I have. But again, you have to realize that we have just spent over a decade happy with an RPTV. I cannot compare it to other 1080p LED sets. I am loving it though!

For some reason with the current Oppo firmware the BDP-103 crashes in the Netflix app. I haven't checked around to see if anyone else is experiencing this. There is probably a debugging procedure that I could do. Perhaps a factory reset to see if the issue goes away. Fortunately I have 2 other ways to get Netflix, the Roku and the 84LM9600.


In fairness to the upconversion that is present in the Oppo, I am thinking that the HDMI connection may be a limitation.


As for 4K demos... In the YouTube app on the 84LM9600, search for "4K" and start the sequence of videos. There isn't a lot but it does stream well and the images are spectacular. Plus, a couple of reviews pop up. The full Timescape movie is $100 delivered in 4K on a USB stick. For $400 they will send an external drive with a much less compressed version. The 84LM9600 does have one USB port setup for an external HDD but as near as I can tell it is not compatible with the CODEC for Timescape on the HDD version.

Thank you for your reply. That's great to hear that HD via satellite looks excellent!
I have Dish Network HD, so PQ should be about the same as DirecTV. I don't use any of the streaming apps through the Oppo 103, so it's strictly for Blu-ray's. I wish I could stream content, either though the TV, or through the Oppo, but my Internet connection just isn't fast enough (9 Mbps). If I had a connection of at least 12 Mbps, then streaming would be great for me.


And it's good to know that regular DVD's look a bit better up-scaled through this TV. I don't watch much DVD content, but it nice to know that it looks decent, for those times I need to watch one.



Seth
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Putting the Picture Quality (which is deserving of praise) aside for the moment here are a few things that I have noticed with the 84LM9600 that are worthy of complaint:

  1. The remote control is absolutely worthless. This is actually worthy of a separate rant.
  2. The component and AV inputs share a common audio input... therefore you can either use one or the other and not both.
  3. There are no external speaker connections. You have to use the internal speakers or an external powered audio system.
  4. A wall mounting is problematic. The speakers fire into the wall. The panel weight prevents you from easily getting to connections.

A thought for retailers... consider sweetening the deal for 84LM9600 customers by throwing in (or discounting) a quality universal remote.


You might think that a composite video input (AV) is a waste these days but... well... my wife is addicted to Nintendo Dr. Mario. Seriously! The Nintendo has been connected and ready for use, sometimes never being turned off, for years and with that one cartridge. I need the AV input for political survival! But here's the thing... forget about how bad CGA graphics at 480i look on an 84" screen, there is so much delay in image processing that the response to controllers is delayed enough to make the game unplayable. I may very well need to find an alternative place to connect this game. (Technically, there seems to be maybe 100 ms delay. Not quite enough to be completely obvious but enough to screw you up!).


There is an audio setting specifically for wall mountings in the menu. This does in fact improve the sound and make the wall a bit less of an issue. Generally during the day when we are casually watching TV we use the TV's speakers. The serious surround sound system is for our serious shows and movies. The PRO-710HD had but two 8" speakers I think but its sound was great. We certainly don't need a fancy sound bar or simulated surround sound system like what Sony has attached to this panel for casual use. Just the ability to tack a couple of front facing speakers on the wall.


:Bruce
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscloutier  /t/1458714/84lm9600-in-reality#post_22986842


*snip*

But here's the thing... forget about how bad CGA graphics at 480i look on an 84" screen, there is so much delay in image processing that the response to controllers is delayed enough to make the game unplayable. I may very well need to find an alternative place to connect this game. (Technically, there seems to be maybe 100 ms delay. Not quite enough to be completely obvious but enough to screw you up!).

*snip*

:Bruce
Ugh...So tired of this from manufacturers. I know you have to do some image processing...but, seriously, some of us still want to play games on the set. If I'm even considering spending $17k on a TV, it damn well better be useful for my gaming enjoyment as well.


Having said that -- have you tested this in game mode to see if it removes enough image processing to reduce the delay to an acceptable level?
 

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The stock remote should be just fine for me, as I will mainly need it for switching inputs, and for first time set up. As for games, I have a separate gaming system in a separate room, so this TV will be strictly for TV shows and movies. The component connections will not be used as all, and everything will be connected via HDMI.
 
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