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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=10210


I checked out this ad from the forums, and drove down to his house (about an hour) to see it in action. Honestly, it looked pretty good, but I was a bit disappointed. I'm new to CRT projectors, and this was my first time seeing one in person. I was expecting to be absolutely amazed based on some screenshots on the forums. The projectors images seemed blurry, and the whites seemed to bleed into the blacks. For example, lets say a guy was standing their in a black suit with a white collar. The white collar would really bleed and "glow" into the black suit.


He's got it setup on a $7500 120" screen, and had it professionally setup originally. After he had his fungus cleaned, he set it up himself. He said the picture used to be better when he had it closer (80-90 inches) and had someone else set it up for him.


I also saw the screen with gridlines and dots in the center. You could see each color individually, they were not overlapping all the way.


It's got about 5,500 hours running and 2,000 hours on standby.


I plan on running it at home on a 120 or larger screen, connected to a media PC.


So my questions:

I've never setup a CRT before, and heard there is a lot involved, but I'm very technical and have confidence I could figure it out with help from the forums, Curt Palme's site, and the manuals included. He said figure in 20-40 hours to set it up at first. Do you think thats reasonable?


Why was the picture so blurry? It looked a lot like these, but a bit worse.
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16879520&postcount=3368
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16853438&postcount=3325

Was it just not properly setup (convergence)?


I'd like it to look like this
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12945129&postcount=1366
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12187603&postcount=847


Do I need to mod the heck out of it to get images as clear as that?


How do I check the tubes on it? Is it something I can do in just a few minutes? If the tubes are worn/bad, what does that do to the picture? He ran it in 16:9, which I plan to do the same.


Lastly, he wants $2500 for it. Is this the route I should take, find a digital around that price, or wait for a G90?


(you should allow links to your own forum for new users!)
 

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"I also saw the screen with gridlines and dots in the center. You could see each color individually, they were not overlapping all the way."


Sounds like the projector was not converged. If that is the case then it will be soft and you will see bleeding. It takes a lot of time, patience and skill to dial in a CRT projector, particulary at higher resoultions. Also if the projector really is 80 or 90" back than before and before was setup at the correct distance then you are nowhere near maximizing the image on the tube face which will give you a dimmer more blury picture.


It is really hard to say what you saw without seeing it myself. A poorly setup CRT projector will look like CR-P.


As for the price it isn't unreasonable but it would depend on tube, condition, etc. Since it isn't setup right it may be hard to judge condition, etc. Personally it is more than I would pay for a projector (without a warranty) but I am cheap person.
 

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One thing you should do is check the Glycol Chambers and the bellows. Make sure the glycol is clear. and then check to see if the Bellows are leaking or sweaty( slimy slippery to the touch) if they are you would need to put in new glycol and new bellows. Bad news is up until about a 2 months ago the only place for bellows was from VDC in florida and you would have to send each tube for a replacement, at 400 bucks each tube for the service. Now the good news is I had the same bellows reproduced with a better Material, and much cheaper if your willing to change them all your self.


Athanasios
 

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Frankly at 5500 hours, it will also have tube wear if it was used with typical contrast and brightness of about 55-60 each. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the green tube to need changing, chances are the R and B are good enough to use for several more thousand hours. I made an offer on this machine a couple of weeks ago, based on my assuming it needed a green tube, but he wouldn't bite.


A green tube will run $1000-1700 USD depending on how much work you want to do, in your case as a CRT newbie I'd recommend dealing with VDC to put a new green tube into your housing at the $1700 price.


As for the setup, I'd say 3-6 hours is a good 'original' setup as you're getting used to the unit and how to set it up. No way it will take 20-40 hours. Depending on how much you get into tweaking, you can easily exceed that within 6 months, or you might be completely happy with your original setup and you'll leave it alone.
 

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this part is a concern
Quote:
It is working fine but 9 months ago the lenses had fungus and sent Green lens to VDC for cleaning.Now, the green lens has a slight fungus again. I am trying to work it out with tim as to what to do.

most likely VDC just changed the Glycol without disassembling the chamber. You can't really do this since the old silicone bellow is failry porous and will trap contaminants inside it. Like Nash said, you need to buy a full set of bellows and have all 3 tubes cleaned, new bellows installed, and then add new glycol. at that point it's good for another 10 years. Of course actual tube condition is a different story altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaykup /forum/post/16913190


Why was the picture so blurry? It looked a lot like these, but a bit worse.

Do I need to mod the heck out of it to get images as clear as that.

Well no you don't need to mod the heck out of it but you should have the eletronics re-built. I am 100% certain than when VDC re-built it they simply replaced the tubes and checked overall function. They don't actually re-condition circuit boards at the component level. That along with a good set up will produce a very good image but be aware that this is a restoration project, not a plug and play machine IMO.


If you really want a "knock your socks off" look you will need to install 3 LUG high resolution tubes, re-build the electronics, and possibly add set of Frankenyokes. It's people with approximately this combination of features that are getting the real WOW out of their Marquee's
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm /forum/post/16914051


this part is a concern

most likely VDC just changed the Glycol without disassembling the chamber. You can't really do this since the old silicone bellow is failry porous and will trap contaminants inside it. Like Nash said, you need to buy a full set of bellows and have all 3 tubes cleaned, new bellows installed, and then add new glycol. at that point it's good for another 10 years. Of course actual tube condition is a different story altogether.


Well no you don't need to mod the heck out of it but you should have the eletronics re-built. I am 100% certain than when VDC re-built it they simply replaced the tubes and checked overall function. They don't actually re-condition circuit boards at the component level. That along with a good set up will produce a very good image but be aware that this is a restoration project, not a plug and play machine IMO.


If you really want a "knock your socks off" look you will need to install 3 LUG high resolution tubes, re-build the electronics, and possibly add set of Frankenyokes. It's people with approximately this combination of features that are getting the real WOW out of their Marquee's

Let me first start out by saying If you own a Marquee with VDC stamped on it, you will NOT need rebuilding in any form done to it, unless it's a tube (as Curt had mentioned).


The consistent assumptions that a Marquee needs to be rebuilt has begun to bother me, but it's not just any Marquee. because there are some out there that are really aged, and could use some upgrading. But in this case, a VDC Marquee that was claimed to have been upgraded at VDC and has less than 10,000 hours on it would need to be rebuilt. That is far from being true, and I say that as being one who has worked on them for the past 15 years, to include having first hand experience with them in the shop and in the field. In fact, I spent the entire last week out of state re-tubing a bunch of VDC Marquees.


The Marquee is a commercial grade product that has served well in the industry, and has earned the reputation of holding up in very difficult and 24/7 operations for years on end.


Now, once the Marquee was sold to VDC, it later got into the hands of Scott (tse), which has spent countless hours looking at improving on it's reputation in the industry and has done so with great results. saying at this point that it needs re-building at very low hours is ridicules to say the least.


My 9500LC Ultra has over 40K hours on it. And I have no intentions of re-building anything in it. there's absolutely need need to do so. Even the parts that were more prone to failure when it was a Christie product, are not found in the Marquee that has the VDC stamp on it.


I get to maintain a plenty of them on the east coast, to include doing board repair work from everywhere. The only re-builds that I know of would be the changes mentioned in the tech bulletins. Those would have been done with a VDC re-build, but it would most likely be entire board changes.


I've said this before and I'll repeat ir here. When the Marquee got into the hands of Scott at VDC, that was the best thing to ever happen to it. he made a great product better.


And to better understand this, you'll need to visit VDC and see what happens in Scott's lab.


Oh, and Tim can also confirm this, I also do work for a former Electrohome engineer. So I have first hand experience from a previous Electrohome Marquee engineer to now a present VDC Marquee engineer (spent time with both). Add that to my 15 years experience with the unit and the fact I still get to work on them in commercial applications, I can say without a doubt, a VDC Marquee would need nothing but tubes at this point.


The caps and such that would usually fail, leak or get weak on a Marquee, were all replaced in the VDC version of the Marquee. And so far, they have been flawless.
 

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It's not a VDC its an Electrohome from the add description. But its a 2001 so the electronics should be ok for a few more years. But id still replace the bellows and glycol if it is cloudy.


Athanasios
 

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it's a 2001 Marquee built by Christy, and with 10K hours on it or even 5K hours I recomend having the boards re-conditioned. Sure it will probably run for another 20K as-is, but for optimum performance there are many parts in there that should be replaced.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 /forum/post/16924846


The consistent assumptions that a Marquee needs to be rebuilt has begun to bother me, but it's not just any Marquee. because there are some out there that are really aged, and could use some upgrading.

so what if it bothers you, it's just your opinion and it runs contrary to what people are seeing on the screen after the machine is upgraded.

IT's become obvious Mike that you just like to hear yourself talk. Sure TSE is a great guy and had posted a ton of useful inof here, but To be trumpeting the services of VDC, a company that has consistently screwed over the home theatre community and won't even sell a bellow or high voltage anode lead, is pathetic.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Parker /forum/post/0


I've said this before and I'll repeat ir here. When the Marquee got into the hands of Scott at VDC, that was the best thing to ever happen to it. he made a great product better.

I can agree here with my 2004 VDC 8500 ultra Longbows. [email protected] looks nice, [email protected] is sharp as a tack!!! You can see the extra work on the FGM ,HDM, CLM and the VIM that allows this to happen. Those two PJ i am not changing anything on.


Athanasios
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 /forum/post/16925584


I can agree here with my 2004 VDC 8500 ultra Longbows. [email protected] looks nice, [email protected] is sharp as a tack!!! You can see the extra work on the FGM ,HDM, CLM and the VIM that allows this to happen. Those two PJ i am not changing anything on.


Athanasios

well there's exactly 13 of those in the home theatre market that I know of.
Not many people are running a 2004 or newer VDC machine.

On a side note, one of my customers just recently bought a Longbow. IT will be interesting to compare the older 8500 I upgraded for him and see how close it comes to the Longbow. I'll try and get him to post in my craptastic argument thread courtesy of MP
 
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