AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
anyone done any comparisons between the 2. I'm in the market for a new card and im wondering if the FX is worth the extra cash. Also, I noticed that a geforce fx 5200 looked like a pretty strong card for around 90-100 dollars. Any comments on that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Is a bad choice for a Home Theatre PC for a variety of reasons:

1) it's hot

2) the fan is loud

3) it needs a lot of power


The 5200 is a great choice. It'll have all the adaptive deinterlacing you can shake a stick at, it's passively cooled, and it has every feature you could want.


The 9700 is pretty much the standard, so you'll get some more support around here. Plus the HDTV dongle is cheaper than a transcoder (but not as full featured)


Coldie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,213 Posts
Definitely the ATI 9700 pro. Hands down. I just build a system and that was my card of choice. Even over the ATI 9800 because I know that card will have driver issues for months to come, while the current drivers on the 9700 are stable. Not to mention the wealth of available information out there on 9700 powerstrip settings.


If you want the reasons why:

1. I completely agree with the above poster on fan noise....even avid gamers can't stand the fan noise on that card.

2. If you just look at the numbers, on quake/unreal, etc...they aren't even that great compared to the 9700 pro. So, basically, its not that much of an improvement in speed over the 9700..take a look at the benchmarks..nothing special
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/...rce_fx-23.html

3. One of the best software dvd players TheaterTek, works great with the ATI cards and supports them.


The only reason to go with the NVIDIA cards are for their solid work on drivers. If you play computer games, that is the main reason to go with NVIDIA...incredible drivers and support. While ATI is notorious for horrid drivers, though they are getting a little better. But for pure HTPC, its ATI 9700 pro all the way.


PS: if you wait just a couple more weeks for the 9800 to fully enter the market, the 9700 price will definitely drop.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
206 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tonic
Definitely the ATI 9700 pro. Hands down. I just build a system and that was my card of choice. Even over the ATI 9800 because I know that card will have driver issues for months to come, while the current drivers on the 9700 are stable. Not to mention the wealth of available information out there on 9700 powerstrip settings.


If you want the reasons why:

1. I completely agree with the above poster on fan noise....even avid gamers can't stand the fan noise on that card.

2. If you just look at the numbers, on quake/unreal, etc...they aren't even that great compared to the 9700 pro. So, basically, its not that much of an improvement in speed over the 9700..take a look at the benchmarks..nothing special
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/...rce_fx-23.html

3. One of the best software dvd players TheaterTek, works great with the ATI cards and supports them.


The only reason to go with the NVIDIA cards are for their solid work on drivers. If you play computer games, that is the main reason to go with NVIDIA...incredible drivers and support. While ATI is notorious for horrid drivers, though they are getting a little better. But for pure HTPC, its ATI 9700 pro all the way.


PS: if you wait just a couple more weeks for the 9800 to fully enter the market, the 9700 price will definitely drop.
Absolute bull about ATI drivers. But clearly that's the norm around here that is spreading FUD by illiterate computer users. nVidia has not had a WHQL driver since November and cannot since they currently do not meet spec. ATI releases WHQLed drivers every 6 weeks. Also there is no driver difference between the 9700 and the 9800 so yet again something you have no clue about but are proclaiming as fact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Beatles
ATI releases WHQLed drivers every 6 weeks.
You speak as if WHQL was some prediction of a drivers stability, IMHO it means very little about how robust the drivers are (and if you understood what has to be acheived to get this certification, you'd realise it how little it means)


I have an HTPC originally run with ATI Radon AIW soon after it came out and recently upgraded to Radeon 9500. I have run Windows 98, SE 2000 and XP on this machine. I got it stable under 98SE, and it is reasonably stable now with XP.


I also have 3 other computers in the house with gforce chipset graphics cards of various vintages.


I can assure you that my hard experience is that ATI's drivers are RARELY as stable as nvidia drivers, and while it is usually easy to get a rock solid build with a gforce, it is hard to get there with ATI, even today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
I have to agree. I had the ATI 8500DV simply to play some TV on my 20" Dell/Sony Monitor while I worked. That sucker crashed repeately; finally giving me a BSOD (Win XP) which trashed my drive. Yes, I loaded all the latest and greatest from ATI.


I recently purchased an Asus Ti4200 at the recommendation of some folks here because of the video chip. I was not disappointed; my 60" Sony TV is now readable with the monitor screen. Not one reboot, crash or BSOD since then. The PC has worked continuously since I put the card in and not one hiccup.


You aren't goind to make very many friends either attacking people with derogatory remarks about their knowledge of PCs simply bcause you disagree.


Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,751 Posts
Guys, the GeForce FX reduces frequency on both memory and core when not doing 3D. The fan then rotates slower, making less noise. A passive heatpipe cooling solution like the Zalman HP80A has even been lreleased for the FX.


Why are you so quick to put down the FX?


And the Radeon 9700uses a lot of power too, and generates lots of heat also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
pauldirte: you asked about a comparison, not about some opinions about drivers, so here's a good article that compares the two:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1779


Looks to me like they give a good comparison.


And as an aside: Are you planning on doing 3D stuff on your PC? If not, the 9700 Pro and the FX both will be serious overkill in my opinion. Like others have said, a 8500 or something like that would probably be a better investment then. And if you're planning on using it for HTPC purposes, you should know that the 9700 Pro is more quiet than the FX, but it still isn't THAT quiet (i have a 9700 Pro in another PC, and it makes noise.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,213 Posts
"Absolute bull about ATI drivers."


Whoa there big boy...did you buy stock in ATI or something? This is a civilized forum, not some some rant board for you youngsters with a foul mouth...err hand.


At any rate, I'm glad others voiced their opinions about their extensive problems with ATI drivers. It doesn't take a genius to quickly see how frequently people have problems with their ATI drivers. Nevertheless, I did recommend the ATI 9700 anyways.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
206 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tonic
"Absolute bull about ATI drivers."


Whoa there big boy...did you buy stock in ATI or something? This is a civilized forum, not some some rant board for you youngsters with a foul mouth...err hand.


At any rate, I'm glad others voiced their opinions about their extensive problems with ATI drivers. It doesn't take a genius to quickly see how frequently people have problems with their ATI drivers. Nevertheless, I did recommend the ATI 9700 anyways.
Frankly people have problems with the drivers on THIS forum since computer knowledge here is totally abysmal. Then these computer illiterate "folks" shoot from the hip about something they haven't a clue about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
Beatles, I would greatly appreciate it, if you could continue this discussion without the insults and attitude.


On topic, I agree with Gertjan. Unless the thread starter intends to do some 3D stuff, Radeon 9700, and GeForceFX 5800 sounds like a overkill.


FWIW, I currently use Radeon 9700 with a Zalman ZM80A-HP, and it doesn't make a sound. :D I play some PC games. FPS such as UT2003, Quake3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
ATI has greatly improved the stability and reliability of their drivers since they moved to a unified driver structure. Before that they had plenty of issues, reflected not only in this forum but any other you care to name.


Like any forum there is a mixture of experienced and novice users - that's what forums are all about - the exchange of knowledge. Given that it's free means it's not always right. But generally someone will correct any misinformation posted.


Given the number of projects that have sprung out of this forum alone, I would hardly say the knowledge on this forum is "totally abysmal". Since you are obviously far ahead of us all, I look forward to you enlightening us all with your wit and knowledge.


Ian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
850 Posts
There was a thread awhile back when the 9700 Pro was coming out where Mike Parker commented on its quality. Supposedly, the 9700 Pro is better than its lower cousins (the 7500, 8500, 9000 and even the 9500).


He never said it officially, but his comment was in the phrase of 'in another league', I believe. Take it with a grain of salt :).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
A couple of things:


I recommend a GeForceFX 5200. It's an awsome card for $100 with every feature on the planet.


The GeForceFX5800 counts some video operations as 3D, so the fan can kick up during DVD playback.


NVidia has WHQL'd drivers since November. They've WHQL probably 15-20 drivers in that timeframe.


They haven't had a general release since November. That should be fixed in the next week or so.


Coldie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,260 Posts
Since the 9700 series uses the same core and almost the same board design as the 9500 series, image quality should be identical. Compared to 9000 and below though, that's a different story altogether.


Drivers wise, ATI is just about right up there with nvidia with their Catalyst unified drivers. I've owned 3 Radeons and my dad's using a GF4MX440, and I haven't had much of a problem with any of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
wow, thanks for all the input. couple things though.


1) To the people talking about the FX. You say how loud it is and how its not that great compared to the 9700 among other things. Im wondering, do you own a FX or are you just restating what other people have said. The FX has only been out a little bit and im trying to find someone that has used it or, even better both the 9700 and FX, and get their opinion on them


2) I was looking at the high end cards because

a) playing games on a 200" screen is cool, and even cooler with a sweet VC.

b) my brother is always bragging about his 13 something 3dmark from his TI4600, a lame reason to spend the xtra cash i know, but its still a small part of it.

and c) when your 23, you want the best ****, im just acting my age.


now, if i do tone down my testerone a bit and go with a more sensible card, the 9500 and 5200 are both great. theres alot of 9500 owners and info about it but because the 5200 is so new, i cant find may people that have it. I have been looking at the 5200, i too think it has alot to offer for around $100 (i think the lowers on pricewatch was $86, WOW) Does anyone own this card, and if so, would you care to comment.


thanks for all the input, please please, stick to what you know about the cards. Ive read all the reviews and other forums and i cant really tell who has the card and who is going off what other people say.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
I was under the impression that for VMR the 9700 was indeed in a different league... is this not so?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
pauldirte -


I have a Radeon 9700 Pro, but i do not use it for HT purposes. I cannot comment on the picture quality compared to other cards. I use it for gaming. And it's pretty darn sweet for that, it's really fast. I do not have a box of fast (and expensive) video cards that i can use to swap out the cards and do comparisons unfortunately, so i cannot give you my own experience as to how this card compares to other cards.


Fortunately that's what reviews, like the one that i recommended to you at http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1779 , are for. I believe that that review on Anandtach gives a thorough and balanced comparison of the two cards. They do not try to make a judgement i think, but rather a fair comparison.


As for the noise - the Anandtech review includes two video clips that let you hear the difference in noise for yourself. Go to the "Cooling the beast" page of the article, and you'll find the links to the clips there. For your convenience, here's the extract from the page that talks about this:

Quote:
To give you an idea of how loud the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra can get we've recorded two videos several inches away from a GeForce FX 5800 Ultra and a Radeon 9700 Pro for comparison purposes. The FX 5800 Ultra video starts out in 2D mode and then we start up a game, triggering an increase in clock and fan speed which you'll definitely be able to hear. Remember that these videos were made very close to the actual source of the sound, so it's much like putting your ear up to either one of these cards.


ATI Radeon 9700 Pro in action (AVI) - http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...review/ati.zip


NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 Ultra in action (AVI) - http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...iew/nvidia.zip


To further extend the comparison, the GeForce FX 5800 weighed in at 77 dBA on our sound meter with the fan spun all the way up vs. 64 dBA on the Radeon 9700 Pro. With the fan in its "slow" mode the card was still louder than the Radeon 9700 Pro but not nearly as bad.
G
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
I've used all of the cards you are talking about. (9700, 9500, Fx5800, Fx5200) and more.


If you are looking for game performance, the Fx5200 won't make you happy. It will be just about as fast (slightly faster) than the 4200. It's just hella cheap.


If you want to spank your brother around, get a 5800 and water cool it. They can work well up to 600MHz if you get a fast bin part. Water cooling will stop the noise concern (slap a 6" 2500rpm fan on it) and you will have the fastest card out there (for a month or so)


Water cooling is a nice solution for a HTPC, it's just that added bit of pain in the butt, so most people don't do it.


I'm going to stick up for Nvidia drivers here and say: If you want to run top end games fast and reliable, experience says use an NVidia card. Check out the NVidia/EA deal today. People use Nvidia cards to develop their games, so they tend to run better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
For one - you can make the ATI card silent with the Zalman heatsink (No Fan) Only costs $25 to do.


For two- whoever has an ATI 9500 or 9700 and is having problems with the drivers- do tell us what the problem is so we can recreate it. Blatent "Ati driver's suck" attitude is really vague and uncalled for when you have no idea what you are talking about... Especially when 99% of the time it is not the driver's fault.


For image quality


ATI has Nvidia beat hands down. I have used both and it is quite noticable. We have both at work and everyone wants an ATI card. Not to mention that DVD quality and gaming in AA and AF on the Radeon is the best I have ever seen both on a monitor and a projector.
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top