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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Summary:
Attachment 168641
PF and DR.jpg
DR_Registry_Tweak.jpg


1.This guide applies under the following conditions:


Windows 7 x86

Cat 10.6

HDMi output

DXVA mode

TMT3 using AVCHD RC1 HD test video


2. As you can see, 5670/5570, 4550 and 4670 behave differently, so you may obtain a different result. The goal is to make sense of the result so that corrective measures can be taken.

3. While the objective is to achieve consistent desktop and video playback level, there may be situations where it would make sense to sacrifice correct desktop level in exchange for better video playback quality like preserving BTB/WTW.

4. The file mode playback of both 4550 and 4670 are identical to the disc mode playback of 4550. 5670/5570 is different (see 9.). Madshi renderer was not tested.

5. Pixel Format YCbCr 4:4:4: and 4:2:2 give similar results.

6. Pixel Format RGB Full gives 0-255 desktop for 4550/4670, while the other three formats compress desktop level to 16-235. 5670/5570 only outputs compressed desktop level for all four PF.

7. 4550 is well behaved, with no difference in file and disc mode playback. Choose RGB Full/Dynamic Range Full for PC Monitor and one of the other three for TV accepting video level input. If BTB/WTW is preferred for TV, sacrifice correct desktop level and select RGB Full/ DR Limited.

8. 4670 disc mode playback behaves quite differently, either by design or otherwise. For PC monitor, select RGB Full/Dynamic Range Full. But best option for TV, it would appear, is YCbCr/Dynamic Range Full, giving consistent Desktop/Video level and preserving BTB/WTW, a combination not possible with the 4550 card.

9. 5670/5570 is like a 4670 without RGB Full. No longer possible to obtain full range 0-255 output for Desktop and File Mode playback. Not recommended for PC monitor.


Finally, credit goes to

1) ter9999 for figuring out how to use the Dynamic Range feature on the 4x, see
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...497&highlight=



4550 TMT3 Disc Mode Output

1) Pixel Format : YCbCr


1.1) Dynamic Range : Limited

Renderer Level Expansion : No

Desktop Level Compression : Yes

BTB preserved? : N/A

Output Video Level : (0-255)-->(16-235)


1,2) Dynamic Range : Full

Renderer Level Expansion : Yes

Desktop Level Compression : Yes

BTB preserved? : No BTB

Output Video Level : (0-15)-->(16), (16-235)-->(16-235), (236_255)-->(235)


2) Pixel Format : RGB Limited


2.1) Dynamic Range : Limited

Render Level Expansion : No

Desktop Level Compression : Yes

BTB preserved? : N/A

Output Video Level : (0-255)-->(16-235)


2.2) Dynamic Range : Full

Render Level Expansion : Yes

Desktop Level Compression : Yes

BTB preserved? : No BTB

Output Video Level : (0-15)-->(16), (16-235)-->(16-235), (236_255)-->(235)


3) Pixel Format : RGB Full


3.1) Dynamic Range : Limited

Render Level Expansion : No

Desktop Level Compression : No

BTB preserved? : BTB

Output Video Level : (0-255)-->(0-255)


3.2) Dynamic Range : Full

Render Level Expansion : Yes

Desktop Level Compression : No

BTB preserved? : No BTB

Output Video Level : (0-15)-->(0), (16-235)-->(0-255), (236-255)-->(255)



4670 TMT3 Disc Mode Output


1) Pixel Format : YCbCr


1.1) Dynamic Range : Limited

Render Level Expansion : No

Desktop Level Compression : Yes

BTB preserved? : N/A

Output Video Level : (0-255)-->(16-235)


1.2) Dynamic Range : Full

Render Level Expansion : No

Desktop Level Compression : No

BTB preserved? : BTB

Output Video Level : (0-255)-->(0-255)


2) Pixel Format : RGB Limited


2.1) Dynamic Range : Limited

Render Level Expansion : No

Desktop Level Compression : No

BTB preserved? : BTB

Output Video Level : (0-255)-->(0-255)


2.2) Dynamic Range : Full

Render Level Expansion : Yes

Desktop Level Compression : No

BTB preserved? : No BTB

Output Video Level : (0-15)-->(0), (16-235)-->(0-255), (236-255)-->(255)


3) Pixel Format : RGB Full


3.1) Dynamic Range : Limited

Render Level Expansion : No

Desktop Level Compression : No

BTB preserved? : BTB

Output Video Level : (0-255)-->(0-255)


3.2) Dynamic Range : Full

Render Level Expansion : Yes

Desktop Level Compression : No

BTB preserved? : No BTB

Output Video Level : (0-15)-->(0), (16-235)-->(0-255), (236-255)-->(255)
 

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Ok, but if you don't tweak anything, the HD4xxx doesn't have Dynamic Range control in CCC. So in this case, which is the Dynamic Range setting used? I think it's Limited, isn't it?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 /forum/post/18203775


Default is Full Dynamic Range.

I don't think so. I have a HD4850 with no tweaks (so I don't have the dynamic range control in CCC), and I have BTB with RGB Full. Looking in your xls, that happens with Limited Dynamic Range.


Also, Somy said that with HD4XXX card, it always use 16-235 (no expansion) and let renderer to handle expansion.


So are your sure that Full Dynamic Range is the default setting for HD4XXX?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yep, it is. you can easily test it by playing with the button.


I don't have a 4850 so cannot confirm your finding. But do be worried if every card is different. This is ATI afterall.


Best regard.
 

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I'm fxcking tired with ATI, all graphics card behave differently.

Couldn't they just describe what will happen when change those settings?

I'm tired, and I will not do more tests.

My card, HD5770 always gives 16/235 in both RGB modes, and YCrCb gives wrong colour. I guess I'll stick to RGB 4:4:4 for now and rely ffdshow to do dirty jobs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 /forum/post/18204206


Oops. The DR tick box.

Do you mean the "Enable Dynamic Contrast" tick box in the Avivo Video Section?


- If it's so, it has no effect with madVR renderer as the renderer overrides it. Anyway, I have it unticked.

- If it's not, I don't have any DR tick box in my settings. Where is that in CCC?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberlolo /forum/post/18208590


Do you mean the "Enable Dynamic Contrast" tick box in the Avivo Video Section?


- If it's so, it has no effect with madVR renderer as the renderer overrides it. Anyway, I have it unticked.

- If it's not, I don't have any DR tick box in my settings. Where is that in CCC?

Don't try to add DR for HD4XXX card, the design is totally different and the behavior is totally different.

I have both HD4850 and HD5770, they're so different in terms of output.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by somy /forum/post/18208596


Don't try to add DR for HD4XXX card, the design is totally different and the behavior is totally different.

I have both HD4850 and HD5770, they're so different in terms of output.

Ok, but then, as with HD4XXX, the DR cannot be changed, what's it's internal value?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberlolo /forum/post/18208590


Do you mean the "Enable Dynamic Contrast" tick box in the Avivo Video Section?


- If it's so, it has no effect with madVR renderer as the renderer overrides it. Anyway, I have it unticked.

- If it's not, I don't have any DR tick box in my settings. Where is that in CCC?

I thought you read ter9999's post?

http://www.sat-china.com/bbs/attachm...1a5a39a95b.jpg
 

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I get terrible black crush using RGB Full on my 4670 (Win7, CAT9.11's) when watching SD TV. Switching to RGB Limited gives a much better picture with far more black level detail. The desktop is more 'washed out', but TV is perfect to my eyes. This doesn't help with 1080P MKV's played back through MPC-HC though, so I apply an SD->HD shader to fix this. Results are generally very good.


YCbCr 4:4:4 also exhibits the black crush problem, but at least on the CAT 9.11's, also has a bug whereby I get an intermittent flashing white line down the right-hand side of the screen as soon as I select it. Switching back to RGB Full/RGB Limited fixes the problem.


I'm not in any rush to upgrade to 10.x CAT's unless they offer substantial improvements (do they?).
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Try Cat 10.2.


Sotti is getting great result using YCbCr with his 5x card. Consistent desktop/video level plus BTB/WTW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by somy /forum/post/18208596


Don't try to add DR for HD4XXX card, the design is totally different and the behavior is totally different.

I have both HD4850 and HD5770, they're so different in terms of output.

The default DR setting for 4x is unticked (not enabled). It has the same effect as DR 0-255 (renderer level expansion), except, as you probably found out by now, EVR/CP (and I suspect madshi's as well) does not seem to be affected.


DR setting has to be enabled to work on EVR/CP. Once enabled, this will supercede MPC's renderer level selection.


File mode playback should be well behaved and consistent for all 4x cards, that is to say, Dynamic Range controls renderer level expansion and Pixel Format controls desktop level compression, with renderer output subject to desktop compression.


Disc mode playback, especially those of BD using protected path and custom renderer, is another matter entirely. My guess is ATI is moving towards independent DR and Pixel Format for disc mode playback for 5x cards, but getting mixed results for the 4x cards because of the older architecture.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 /forum/post/18209002


The default DR setting for 4x is unticked (not enabled). It has the same effect as DR 0-255 (renderer level expansion), except, as you probably found out by now, EVR/CP (and I suspect madshi's as well) does not seem to be affected.


DR setting has to be enabled to work on EVR/CP. Once enabled, this will supercede MPC's renderer level selection.


File mode playback should be well behaved and consistent for all 4x cards, that is to say, Dynamic Range controls renderer level expansion and Pixel Format controls desktop level compression, with renderer output subject to desktop compression.


Disc mode playback, especially those of BD using protected path and custom renderer, is another matter entirely. My guess is ATI is moving towards independent DR and Pixel Format for disc mode playback for 5x cards, but getting mixed results for the 4x cards because of the older architecture.

I've noticed the settings there only affect PowerDVD. WRT MPC-HC, it seems to me that even DXVA is enabled, it doesn't take effect.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by somy /forum/post/18209083


I've noticed the settings there only affect PowerDVD. WRT MPC-HC, it seems to me that even DXVA is enabled, it doesn't take effect.

Can anybody confirm if the Dynamic Range setting affects MPC-HC using madvR, please?
 
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