[DrewStroikus]

This post is part rant, part request for guidance/solutions.


We're Comcast Xfinity Triple Play customers - yes we drank the cool-aid. We have three HD setups in the house (a Series 3 TiVo w/cablecard & Vizio 37", a TiVo Premiere HD w/cablecard and a Philips 50" Plasma, and an ancient Toshiba HD LCD w/Comcast HD STB (no DVR - I hate their UI)


To this questionable mix of tech we'd like to add a fourth HDTV out in our screened-in porch, but really don't want to put a table outside to hold an STB (or TiVo) - we don't need a guide nor DVR and we don't use PPV. But, we do want to access the HD programming on the upper channels. I figured it would be simple enough to run the coax, pick out and mount a decent HDTV on the wall and pick up a cablecard from Comcast - done!


But when I set about searching for an HDTV with a cablecard slot I was absolutely stunned to find that no HDTV manufacturers are producing what was once called Digital Cable Ready HDTVs - They might have ATSC/NTSC tuners, but no cablecard slots.


This is particularly stunning in light of last year's new requirements by the FCC that all cable companies allow end-user installation of cablecards and that they price them accordingly - e.g. inexpensively when compared to the cost of a STB/DVR rental.


I've done a lot of research on the subject, but I'm finding nothing that is as simple and elegant as a cablecard enabled HDTV. Remote IR blasters, HDMI over WiFi, etc. all add significant costs and with questionable results.


Am I missing something? Is there some simple new technology on the horizon I'm just not aware of? Is there a resource out there on the web for refurbished digital cable ready HDTVs?


Thanks in advance for helping find a simple solution.


- Drew

 

[DrDon]

Gotta say, I miss mine, too. Switched Digital Video pretty much put an end to cablecard TVs. That and poor sales. They cost more than regular TVs, so nobody bought them.


Thanks to SDV, even with a cablecard TV or TiVo, you still need a tuning adapter. So, you're stuck with a set-top box, anyway. Might as well hit up the cable company for another, non-DVR box. I would guess - and maybe someone knows - that there might be some form of M-card/tuning adapter all-built-in display on a drawing board, somewhere. But the added expense ..plus the monthly CableCard fees.. will have most people opting to just rent another box from the cableco. Easier and not that much more expensive.


You COULD get industrious and rig up an rf remote hopper solution along with running HDMI to your patio. That's how I do it. Cable box stays in the basement and runs about 6 TVs throughout the house via HDMI splitter/amp. Not a great option if you have many family members watching different things. But for getting digital cable to the patio, it works rather well. There are wireless HDMI solutions, too, but their range is rather short.

 

[DCResident]


I've been Googling around on this issue and just wanted to add one other really sad part of this dilemna.  My 87 year old mother in assisted living, comes from a radio era, much less experience with a set top box that you have to change input options to access.  Her TV is basically unuseable no matter how many times I try to get it set up correctectly - even on a single remote.  (Somehow she always ends up losing the input setting.  Even I have trouble reading the ridiculosuly small print on the Comcast 

 

[DrDon]

Assuming you have a newer television, I suggest disabling everything but the one input and getting her the Samsung CableCard device from Wal-Mart. Then hide the other remote. It'll turn the set on and off, but all other buttons on the remote only deal with the Samsung. Granted, it's a "Smart" box, so it's possible for her to get into menus she didn't plan on, but easy to exit out of. There aren't any other buttons that'd change the TVs mode.

 

[BiggAW]

They don't make them because no one wants them because they don't support DVR or VOD functionality, so they were rather pointless. To the OP: if you get a TiVo Roamio Plus or Pro and a couple of TiVo Mini's, you can replace everything with a single CableCard solution, cut the monthly costs way down, and sell off your old gear.

 

[DrDon]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW  /t/1419257/a-dearth-of-digital-cabl...have-all-the-cablecard-tvs-gone#post_24386269


They don't make them because no one wants them because they don't support DVR or VOD functionality, so they were rather pointless.

There's that, but the bigger issue was the price. The CableCard televisions were hundreds higher than the same TV minus the functionality. At the time, cable companies were charging $50 to "install" a CableCard. To most the hassle and the expense weren't worth it. Not when the Cable Companies would happily rent a box that'd do all of that and more for a paltry $8 a month.

 

[Beerstalker]

There was also the issue with the cable companies fighting against doing it in the first place. They didn't train any of their people on them (because they didn't want to support them in the first place) so it was a huge hassle to get them to work. Most of the time the techs and CSRs would try to blame the issues on the TV, so then people were constantly calling the TV manufacturers and the retailers complaining about their TVs being broken (which they weren't). Eventually the TV manufacturers got sick of dealing with all the calls and complaints and decided it was just easier not to offer it.

 

[Aero 1]

Dont forget the high cost of Cablelabs certification ( http://www.cablelabs.com/specs/certification/ ) that the TV manufacturers had to pay a consortium of cable companies for a product that said cable companies don't want to support but have to because of the FCC.

 

[Ratman]

1) Cablecard support in a TV is not cost justifiable by the TV manufacturer.

2) Cableco's cannot generate revenue. They make more money with STB rental fees.

 

[BiggAW]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon  /t/1419257/a-dearth-of-digital-cabl...have-all-the-cablecard-tvs-gone#post_24389007


There's that, but the bigger issue was the price. The CableCard televisions were hundreds higher than the same TV minus the functionality. At the time, cable companies were charging $50 to "install" a CableCard. To most the hassle and the expense weren't worth it. Not when the Cable Companies would happily rent a box that'd do all of that and more for a paltry $8 a month.

If there had been a system that used standards to interface into a whole-home DVR, complete with VOD, I think it could have taken off. Unfortunately, that technology didn't come years later, until RVU, and only D* has actually embraced it, and in a very limited way.

 

[mtbdudex]

I Paid $2.2k for a Sony 14" slimline 42" 720p Feb-2005, been waiting for tech to hit what I feel is another 10 year solution, those "P" series from Vizio seem it for me!
Heck - is my still working CableCard HDTV a collectors item now? How much can I get for it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD
fwiw, my CableCard still works fine, after 9+ years of use only had techs come out once like 3-4 years ago, Comcast changed some setting in their side that caused it not to work, they fixed it once at my home.
1 less clutter item, and I pay ZERO on my comcast bill for it.
Once they tried to charge me for it, had that corrected.

 

[Ratman]

Heck - is my still working CableCard HDTV a collectors item now? How much can I get for it?

For a 10 year old 42" 720p TV? Cablecard ready or not... probably not much.

 

[HDMI Guy]

For a 10 year old 42" 720p TV? Cablecard ready or not... probably not much.

I would guess $25 max.

 

[DrDon]

I miss my Hitachi CableCARD LCD, though - had the power supply not fried - it would have been obsolete, by now. Bright House uses SDV and there was no way to incorporate a tuning adapter. The set would have been stuck with only the fulltime channels. And Bright House has a number of channels one would assume to be fulltime assigned to SDV. What's the point of having cable if you can't tune The Weather Channel, MTV, MSNBC, Nick and a dozen others?

 

[BiggAW]

No one wants a CableCard TV, because you have to have a box for the DVR/VOD anyways, so it's completely pointless.

 

[Ratman]

Planned obsolescence. It could have been a boon to the consumer. The cableco's never embraced the technology as there was no profit. Of course... that's just my opinion.

 

[HDMI Guy]

I miss my Hitachi CableCARD LCD, though - had the power supply not fried - it would have been obsolete, by now. Bright House uses SDV and there was no way to incorporate a tuning adapter. The set would have been stuck with only the fulltime channels. And Bright House has a number of channels one would assume to be fulltime assigned to SDV. What's the point of having cable if you can't tune The Weather Channel, MTV, MSNBC, Nick and a dozen others?

I had a TV in the kitchen with a cable card and Time Warner Cable. Time Warner kept changing the channels that were SDV but it was usually at least 3 or 4 that I wanted to watch occasionally. Wasn't too sad when it broke and I went with a new TV and a cable box. Plus the TV would freeze about 4 times a year and I had to leave it unplugged for about 5 minutes and then all was good.

 

[BiggAW]

Planned obsolescence. It could have been a boon to the consumer. The cableco's never embraced the technology as there was no profit. Of course... that's just my opinion.

CableCard works well with a DVR like TiVo, it's just totally pointless to be built directly into a TV. Heck, Comcast even does VOD through TiVo, so there has been some support of CableCard, albeit only one company going beyond the legally required minimum level of service.

 

[Ratman]

CableCard works well with a DVR like TiVo, it's just totally pointless to be built directly into a TV. Heck, Comcast even does VOD through TiVo, so there has been some support of CableCard, albeit only one company going beyond the legally required minimum level of service.

Not "pointless" IMHO for the numerous folks that would like you use a TV without paying extra for cable channels to which they subscribe.

TiVO is great for those that choose that alternative (if a DVR is a necessity). OTOH, TiVO requires purchase of the hardware, a subscription fee and you still have to rent a cablecard for a monthly fee from the provider.

Pay TiVO or pay the provider.

It would be nice that just as in the "old days", you could get a "cable ready" TV, plug it in and get what you pay for on a monthly basis. If the only thing required was a dollar or two for a cablecard... most could live with that.

 

[BiggAW]

Not "pointless" IMHO for the numerous folks that would like you use a TV without paying extra for cable channels to which they subscribe.

Well, TV these days without a DVR or VOD is completely useless. Plus, you have to pay for the CableCard, if you pay for a WHDVR client box, then you get DVR, VOD, and everything else.

TiVO is great for those that choose that alternative (if a DVR is a necessity). OTOH, TiVO requires purchase of the hardware, a subscription fee and you still have to rent a cablecard for a monthly fee from the provider.

A DVR is a necessity these days, so the competition is the MSO's DVR, like Comcast X1 vs. TiVo. TiVo is cheaper over the course of 3-4 years, and there are no monthly fees once you buy the one-time subscription fee ($500).

Pay TiVO or pay the provider.

Correct. TiVo is just better and cheaper. The downside on any MSO other than Comcast is losing VOD, and the SDV issues that TWC and BHN have.

It would be nice that just as in the "old days", you could get a "cable ready" TV, plug it in and get what you pay for on a monthly basis. If the only thing required was a dollar or two for a cablecard... most could live with that.

The world has moved beyond that. Thank god, as VCRs sucked to use but were a necessary evil to actually have anything to watch, the old analog TiVos were OK in the post-1999 world, but the picture quality sucked (as it did for VCRs or cable at all). Having HD-DVR on every TV is far better than the old days of fuzzy analog and limited or no DVRs, as was the case in the pre-1999 world before TiVo fundamentally changed TV. CableCards are typically around $7/mo depending on the provider, so it makes more sense to have one in a TiVo Roamio, and everything else distributed at no additional monthly cost to TiVo Minis.