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I enjoy the pic from JVC NX7 .
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Just got a new Epson TW9400 which is a very nice improvement over the outgoing 9300 mainly when it comes to HDR.
Just finished calibration and it seems I am not be very lucky with the panel as it cannot be calibrated to gamma 2.4 no matter what, I have to settle on 2.2 which is OK ish. Anyway LCD clearly has its limitations.
So just switching from an OLED in the cave it is a stark difference even though this is some of the best HDR I've seen on a PJ so far but the lower end of the dynamic range leaves a lot on the table.

My ideal scenario would be an improved version of the current JVC N series with the contrast of the old generation (at least 130K:1. That would make me move however it seems manufacturers seem to be chasing higher lumen output these days and going backwards with black levels. So not sure what's next really as I am not happy with any current PJ tech.

I want OLED quality on the big screen :) I want my old X9500 with better HDR. That would make me happy.
Did you ever see your 9500 with proper dynamic tone mapping?

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Did you ever see your 9500 with proper dynamic tone mapping?

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sure have still didn't cut it for me but that was a while ago.
 

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Just got a new Epson TW9400 which is a very nice improvement over the outgoing 9300 mainly when it comes to HDR.
Just finished calibration and it seems I am not be very lucky with the panel as it cannot be calibrated to gamma 2.4 no matter what, I have to settle on 2.2 which is OK ish. Anyway LCD clearly has its limitations.
So just switching from an OLED in the cave it is a stark difference even though this is some of the best HDR I've seen on a PJ so far but the lower end of the dynamic range leaves a lot on the table.

My ideal scenario would be an improved version of the current JVC N series with the contrast of the old generation (at least 130K:1. That would make me move however it seems manufacturers seem to be chasing higher lumen output these days and going backwards with black levels. So not sure what's next really as I am not happy with any current PJ tech.

I want OLED quality on the big screen :) I want my old X9500 with better HDR. That would make me happy.
A 9500 and adding a DTM system sounds like what you should do.
 

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A 9500 and adding a DTM system sounds like what you should do.
yeah I should, SDR was stellar, and an absolute blast however HDR was lacking. I don't like DTM, I like the real thing the way the creator intended.
 

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I gotta say this 9400 is miles ahead of the X9500 in HDR yet it lacks the dynamic range so it renders it pretty much a no good all rounder, the 9500 was the king of contrast but lacked the HDR capabilities. Should we able to combine them we would have an absolute winner everyone would be drooling all over. Will it happen? Unlikely. I said the same thing when I had the LS10K and a JVC, did it happen? Sure it did not. Did OLED blow my mind? Sure it did, can I get it in a size I like? Sure I can't. Back to square one . After years and years of testing and spending no solution satisfies all ( I should say its a rabbit hole forever, infinite, black hole, consumer business...) Could have been done? Sure yeah.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I gotta say this 9400 is miles ahead of the X9500 in HDR yet it lacks the dynamic range so it renders it pretty much a no good all rounder, the 9500 was the king of contrast but lacked the HDR capabilities. Should we able to combine them we would have an absolute winner everyone would be drooling all over. Will it happen? Unlikely. I said the same thing when I had the LS10K and a JVC, did it happen? Sure it did not. Did OLED blow my mind? Sure it did, can I get it in a size I like? Sure I can't. Back to square one . After years and years of testing and spending no solution satisfies all ( I should say its a rabbit hole forever, infinite, black hole, consumer business...) Could have been done? Sure yeah.
Are you comparing the built in static curves?

Did you ever use Arve curves on the 9500?

You say the Epson lacks dynamic range but is better In HDR? How so?

You don't like DTM?

Odd. I don't get it. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

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yeah I should, SDR was stellar, and an absolute blast however HDR was lacking. I don't like DTM, I like the real thing the way the creator intended.
What device are you watching HDR on that is not doing DTM?
 

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I gotta say this 9400 is miles ahead of the X9500 in HDR yet it lacks the dynamic range so it renders it pretty much a no good all rounder, the 9500 was the king of contrast but lacked the HDR capabilities. Should we able to combine them we would have an absolute winner everyone would be drooling all over. Will it happen? Unlikely. I said the same thing when I had the LS10K and a JVC, did it happen? Sure it did not. Did OLED blow my mind? Sure it did, can I get it in a size I like? Sure I can't. Back to square one . After years and years of testing and spending no solution satisfies all ( I should say its a rabbit hole forever, infinite, black hole, consumer business...) Could have been done? Sure yeah.
And the 9400 is miles behind the current JVC's, a 9500 paired with a Lumagen or a 9500 paired with an Envy.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
And the 9400 is miles behind the current JVC's, a 9500 paired with a Lumagen or a 9500 paired with an Envy.
He definitely has a madvr PC with full current DTM ability, so I am a little confused on why he seems to like a static curve more.

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Discussion Starter #33
yeah I should, SDR was stellar, and an absolute blast however HDR was lacking. I don't like DTM, I like the real thing the way the creator intended.
Well I can tell you now a static curve is not the way the creator Intended if you don't have a 1000nits display.

Comparing DTM vs static tone mapping on the spears and munsil uhd benchmark vs the same footage 100nit grade will show you in 5 seconds why. Only DTM will look very close to the 100nit grade nearly identical meaning it's properly scaling the overall image to your brightness level.

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I see my DTM comment shocked the world:)
Let me clarify, what I mean is I like a display such as an OLED to display the movie accurately without mapping whenever possible. Of course its not possible on a PJ hence it does need it and I prefer it that way.

With that out of the way seeing the 9400 doing pretty well with HDR I think the next logical step up will be a JVC N however I would love something like that with laser which I was holding out for but it seems its not happening any time soon.

So for now I just need to figure out why Madvr is actually dimming the image when DTM is on instead of brightening it.

Also it seems to me that EPSON have done something weird with the gamma on the 9400 to be able to achieve the better brightness as it cannot be calibrated beyond 2.1-2.2 max, the lower end of the scale goes up to 2.4 but anything above 70% white cannot be pushed over 2.15 ish this is in line with the avforums review as well.
 

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A 9500 and adding a DTM system sounds like what you should do.
yep I wish I still had it. Can you get me one in Europe? I can't see any for sale.
 

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I see my DTM comment shocked the world:)
Let me clarify, what I mean is I like a display such as an OLED to display the movie accurately without mapping whenever possible. Of course its not possible on a PJ hence it does need it and I prefer it that way.

With that out of the way seeing the 9400 doing pretty well with HDR I think the next logical step up will be a JVC N however I would love something like that with laser which I was holding out for but it seems its not happening any time soon.

So for now I just need to figure out why Madvr is actually dimming the image when DTM is on instead of brightening it.

Also it seems to me that EPSON have done something weird with the gamma on the 9400 to be able to achieve the better brightness as it cannot be calibrated beyond 2.1-2.2 max, the lower end of the scale goes up to 2.4 but anything above 70% white cannot be pushed over 2.15 ish this is in line with the avforums review as well.
That was my whole point. OLED does tone mapping. The difference is the OLED has increased dynamic range (higher contrast) and added brightness over a projector. So it is not DTM that you do not like. You just want a display with higher contrast and higher brightness. The RS3000 I have gets me a whole lot closer to the image of an OLED than the 9400 does.
 

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That was my whole point. OLED does tone mapping. The difference is the OLED has increased dynamic range (higher contrast) and added brightness over a projector. So it is not DTM that you do not like. You just want a display with higher contrast and higher brightness. The RS3000 I have gets me a whole lot closer to the image of an OLED than the 9400 does.
Yes agree, accept I had a C7 which as far as I understand does not do mapping.
If I can get something close to the 9500's contrast and great DTM I am in. I just simply can't tolerate greyish blacks I found, it snaps me out of immersion regardless of screen size. Also I don't want e-shift anymore and lamps either. making it a tough one.

I got the 9400 to get me through while I make up my mind and/or something new pops up out of nowhere. Really like the new Sammy UST but I suspect the black aren't great on that either.
 

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Yes agree, accept I had a C7 which as far as I understand does not do mapping.
If I can get something close to the 9500's contrast and great DTM I am in. I just simply can't tolerate greyish blacks I found, it snaps me out of immersion regardless of screen size. Also I don't want e-shift anymore and lamps either. making it a tough one.

I got the 9400 to get me through while I make up my mind and/or something new pops up out of nowhere. Really like the new Sammy UST but I suspect the black aren't great on that either.
The RS3000 has 100,000:1 native contrast. That projector with laser is probably close to what you are looking for. if when we get a laser version of the RS3000 and if it has improved contrast, then it should make you pretty happy. It would be like an RS4500 with five times the native contrast of the 4500, but with less light output.
 

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The RS3000 has 100,000:1 native contrast. That projector with laser is probably close to what you are looking for. if when we get a laser version of the RS3000 and if it has improved contrast, then it should make you pretty happy. It would be like an RS4500 with five times the native contrast of the 4500, but with less light output.
hmm yes probably. I had the pleasure of testing out the 3000 when it came out and it impressed me but I saw the difference in contrast compared to my late 9500 so I stuck with it. Also tested the 4500 multiple times and stuck with my 9500 yet again. However given there is just nothing else out there in that league probably your are right and even so an RS2000 would do the trick as the contrast difference was literally undetectable when I saw them side by side and I am not sure I could justify the extra $$$ even so it has a beautiful lens.
 
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