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The following is a copy of an email I received from a client

who compared the 4000 verses the 5000SC together side by side.

I thought you dila fans would like to read this. It has not been edited in any way. Just copy and paste.


Alan

I just got at home a 5000SC for a couple of hours. Wow.


. Much more punchy compared to a 4000.

. Colors more vivid, more lively.

. I have the habit with the 4000 to boost the contrast to make low level

details more visible. That's no longer necessary with the 5000: the

extended dynamics due to the 1000:1 contrast ratio brings out so many

details that I left the contrast a 128 on my Faroudja, while I usually set

it up to 180-200 with the 4000, which of course washes out the whites.

. The image is at the same time more creamy and more detailed.

. HD was gorgeous. The JVC guy told me that this is nothing compared to the

QXGA model, but at $225000, I will refuse to see it! QXGA will be my next

step in 3 to 4 years, when it becomes (relatively) affordable.

. There is still a noticeable amount of light when there is no image. But

as soon as there is an image, you don't see it anymore. After all, 1000:1

is the same ratio as film.

. I can't wait to have this puppy, especially if the Panamorph makes it a

6650 lumens like projector instead of a 5000 one!


I think I told you that I saw a big 12000 lumens Barco DLP. The 4000 was

already slightly better despite being 3 times less luminous in theory, and

I think now that the 5000 will cream any DLP, except perhaps the Cinema

DLPs with also a 1000:1 contrast ratio.



Also, the lumens ratings seam to be often exaggerated: JVC had a shoot-out

for the benefit of one of their potential customer against a 8000 lumens

Digital projection DLP 1280x1024 model, and the 5000 was as bright, and

better in terms of video quality. The 5000 I was shown was measured at 4800

lumens before calibration, and 4300 after.




------------------

Alan Gouger

Thanks for supporting AV Science.
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Thanks Alan,


I like to dream too.
 

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Dear 5000SC User (whoever you are),


Thanks for the review, and the comparison against the highest end 3 Chip DLP projectors.


How would you say that the 5000SC projector compares to the highest end CRT projectors (i.e. Sony G90) and to actual film? You mentioned that the contrast equals film, but how was the overall image quality in comparison.


Also, how big is the screen you were using. I would assume that it would need to be pretty large to handle over 4000 lumens without blinding you.


Thanks!
 

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SM,


I believe that it's in the $70K ballpark. At that price, I would hope that it would cream even the highest-end CRT projectors (finally putting THAT question to rest), but would like to hear it from someone who has had one (admittedly, probably very few of us!).
 

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OK Mark. Where does a $70K projector cream a $26K one? And how does that put anything to rest? and if it did, would that thing be merely something in your mind, and an imaginary chip on your shoulder?


Remember, they are both merely projection devices.. that's all.


The simple thing that has always peeved me is that people have screamed that 'this technology, or that' 'creams' CRT.. when in fact it doesn't, and is quite misleading. That's all. That is the ONLY thing that makes me want to come down on them like a hammer. Falseness, and emotionally pushed, at that. Delusitory at best. When it gets there, I will gladly be there... buying one.


Remember.. financially driven and oriented corporations can ONLY scream about what THEY want YOU to BUY... NOT what you already have.



These are simple facts.

------------------

goosystems.com


Ken Hotte

[email protected]


[This message has been edited by KBK (edited 07-18-2001).]
 

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Whoa there KBK!


Remember, absolute image quality is not the only important thing to everyone. Some of us like to have our Volkswagons parked in the garage, not on the living room ceiling.


Try not to blow a head gasket.


-phil
 

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Quote:
Where does a $70K projector cream a $26K one? And how does that put anything to rest?
Well, it's like the audio controversy of Digital against Analog. Todays top of the line $15000 digital gear cream $5000 analog systems, while 5 years ago the contrary was true. The important thing to note is that, regardless of the price, digital technology is getting the better over CRTs, and that at a point in the future, that will be true even at low price range.


------------------

Robert


[This message has been edited by robena (edited 07-19-2001).]
 

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Alan

Thanks it keeps the dream alive for us mortals. A QXGA upgrade in 3-4 years sounds good but I guess we who shudder at the thought of the total cost of this upgrade may also shudder at the thought of the word "DIVORCE".

Ah for the life of a single rich man we can but dream.

I had to grovel enough to get my Transvision in the living area and my HD-700 in my theater.


DavidW
 

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My $7.5K G11 creams a 26K CRT in screen size and brightness.

Oops, sorry, you're talking about the $70K projector...

-Dave

 

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Yes. You guys are right. If only you could see me in person when I make these sort of comments. There is no anger or real heavy emotional content in the message. Sometimes I go back and read what I have put in a post, and realize it could easily seem too harsh, and could also be mistaken as a direct attack on an individual. My problem in this regard is that I fail to realize that the written word is interpreted, and the stance is attempted to be decoded...I tend to come across as harsh. Never is my intent. I am accused of being the most laid-back person that people around me know. And these are really, reasonable, and laid back people themselves making these comments. Most people cannot understand how I never really get upset with people.


Look at it this way. I rarely have anything like a specific message to deliver. I care only to convey methods of understanding. Interpretation is not my job.


I want to play with one of these DILA units. I would love to strip one to the bone and re-interpret every single point of it's supposed reality, and see what I could make of it. I think I could come up with at least 4, and as high as a dozen different ways to improve the image quality, in all directions and areas. I wouldn't know, until the unit was dismembered, and I had a chance to think about it for a bit. I never repeat myself, I always move on to something new. So, a DILA could at least entertain me for a few months.


I can easily do this sort of thing..but when you have this sort of capacity, the first people who try to attach themselves to you are the USERS. I run into them all the time. Want, want want,.. is all I ever get from them. Most of the time I refuse to deliver, due to their internally blinding greed of some sort. They realize I have skill, and they wish to use it to catapult themselves into glory. Strange. So, I give them what they deserve. A hard time. I want to help them clear their psychosis, not extend it's misery. Usually it nearly kills them. They refuse to understand, because it calls their entire existence into question.


The real problem in this world is that the people with the psychosis are the ones that end up in control of things, as they have the lack of real concern for their fellow man that it takes to get things done in this twisted western environment.


So, I apologize for my seemingly rude stance. It is just that all 'veils' on reality are 'off' within me.


So, getting back to the subject at hand... I have stated before, that it is very hard for me to come to a point where I can slip into the 'willing suspension of disbelief' that it takes to get 'into' a film or movie. Everything but a CRT keeps knocking me out of that space. I am just way to tightly tuned... and I question everything, even the very ground I stand on. So, I want the total immersion that only a totally customized CRT, custom screen(speaking of the right grey screen for a digital PJ, this happens with CRT as well!), custom speakers(with custom crossover designs,and custom drivers..), custom gear, custom scaler, custom room acoustics, etc., can bring. otherwise I get nothing from it. My dreams are much more interesting. This audio/video stuff is a fun distraction.


So, yeah, I would like to improve DILA units for you, and everyone else. But the problem is, that I would probably have to give away every innovation I put into it, before anyone that builds them would even take out the time to talk to me. And I would end up still sitting here, poor, as usual.


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goosystems.com


Ken Hotte

[email protected]


[This message has been edited by KBK (edited 07-19-2001).]
 

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Nice comment Dave. I see you fail to get it too.


Anyway, I hope that DILA's do well, and I am sure they will.


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goosystems.com


Ken Hotte

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Ken:


I think I do "get it". I was just amused by the word "delusitory". I think you meant "delusional". Probably rude of me to point that out. Sorry.


- Dave
 

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Ok. No offence taken, it's that old internet word thing coming back to haunt us. The extra interface isn't there to take the bite off things.


I have fun creating new words. My brother came up with a good one yesterday. I remember an old one, that friend had when he was really high.. wearing new running shoes..and he felt really light.. The word he came up with, about 23 years ago was: "Gription". A funky word if there ever was one. I created a few interesting things..one caught on like widfire. Remember the one where you have a heart shape tattoo, with an arrow through it? and instead of 'Mom' written in it... I put 'FTW' in there instead, if you know what that means. It started showing up everywhere. Anyway, that's how new words enter the language. People create them, and start using them.


I sure would like to play with some DILA units. Anyway. I started talking about mating the input card resolution (specifically the pixel-to-pixel matching..as they interface between the two is wholly analog)of HTPC's to that of the DVD analog signal coming out of DVD players. This is key to getting the DVD to look good on a scaler. The line pick-up of the capture, must perfectly match that of the DVD output, otherwise posterization will occur and contrast and detail will be lost. So, the two must mate exactly in this regard. This is why some scalers look good, and the same unit can look terrible in other set-ups. A bad match on the two. A different scaler of the same brand, and DVD player of the same brand might match up perfectly. I stated that to get a way of doing this exactly is the key to good looking scalers, or capture cards on HTPC's. I did not have to impart this understanding publicly, but I did. I could of kept it to myself, and tried to make money off that understanding. But, who cares? It appears to be catching on like wildfire, as understandings go.

Soon, you will find that scalers and HTPC's begin to get something like the program 'powerstrip' for their INPUT sections, as this is critical to getting the most out of these units. Here we go with a new one.


Also, right now I am listening to the Madonna tune "bedtime Story", on the Galaxy Ambient music channel. I think she has finally started to grow up, and get real. I always thought she was a total pain of a person.. but I might start to cut her some slack, if she keeps it up. She's got a lot of work to do in these directions, if she wants to make up for all the damage she has done.


------------------

goosystems.com


Ken Hotte

[email protected]


[This message has been edited by KBK (edited 07-19-2001).]
 

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I don't want to be a part of the detour this discussion took and I'm not taking sides.


I think it would be more ethical if people who make their living from home theater products or accessories, would say so in their signature. I don't mean it should be written like a dsiclaimer, just matter of factly "I am so and so, the <blank> at <blank> corporation". That would let people make up their own minds as to who is objective and who may not be. Their are already a few people who do this. It would be nice if everyone did.


My 2 cents.
 

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I'm looking forward to seeing the 5000SC soon.


I doubt that it's really a fair comparison with the G90 because of the cost differential, and the huge difference in light output.


The 5000SC is a prime candidate for events, boardrooms and other high light, big screen, business applications that the old Datacannons and 3-chip DLP FPTVs are used in.


One thing that the original reviewer mis-stated is having 6650 lumens with the Panamorph lens.

Anamorphic lenses do not create light. It's just that with a 4:3 panel showing widescreen material the letterbox bars are left unused which normally reduces the overall light output for widescreen material.


So the Panamorph lens can potentially use the whole 4:3 screen for displaying 16:9 material, providing all of the light output for 16:9 material, and the PII can do this for 2.35:1 movies as well. This reduces light loss due to letterbox formatting for widescreen material on 4:3 panels.


Having a full 4300 lumens would be able to light up a pretty big screen.


-Dean.

 

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Hi Ken,


I saw the "totally immersive" Sony G90 home theater demonstration at Infocomm...it was right next to the D-ILA demonstration.


The G90 demo was damn impressive. That is a beautiful projector and one that I would be very proud to own. The picture was just so pleasing on the eyes that you couldn't help but relax when watching it. Unfortunately, the demonstration had to be done in almost complete darkness, and the screen size was very, VERY small for the audience that they had. Once seated, you were NOT expected to move until the presentation was over, and the presentations were "scheduled". You could only watch if you were seated when the lights went down.


In the next booth over, there was a demonstration of both the 5000SC and the QXGA D-ILA projectors. Both projectors were using a massive 24 FOOT WIDE Stewart screen. Huge! The room had enough ambient light for people to go in and out all during the day. No "scheduling" of a demo.


Yet, the image quality was phenomenal on both the "SC" and the "Q"...they were the talk of the show. There is also something breathtaking about seeing a little machine light up a screen that big.


To be fair, the price difference is still fairly substantial ($225K and $70K for the D-ILAs, $30K for the G90), but I think that anyone who was still wondering if digital was going to surpass CRT anytime soon had that question answered at the show.



Mark Hunter

I wrote some software for automating, modifying and calibrating D-ILA proojectors called Dilard.


[This message has been edited by milori (edited 07-19-2001).]
 
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