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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, sort of. I'll try to keep this short and sweet ...


I mounted my 92" diagonal (80x45) Da-Lite Hi-Power screen and Panasonic 300u over the weekend. The screen seems to be made fairly well (for the money) and I really like the CSR.


The Hi-Power certainly gives the image a lot of punch (makes it much easier to have ambient lighting) and makes colors reasonably vibrant. The negative effects on contrast and black level is minimal IMHO. My PJ is ceiling mounted, so I am on the other side of the normal, which certainly helps and is HIGHLY recommended.


However, this screen material does a few things I do not like:

  1. It tends to make SCANLINE ARTIFACT more evident, as well as ...
  2. A new artifact of VERTICLE banding I had not seen before.
  3. Poor DVD transfers' defects are really amplified.
  4. This is mostly psychological, but moving the slightest amount (like one person over) causes the brightness to fluctuate. It is plenty bright at the extreme angles (just brighter in the center of course), but it reminds me of the RPTV effect, which I HATE.[/list=1]

    HOWEVER, it does one MAJOR thing right (besides providing a lot of punch) that makes it worth while. And that is, it hides the inevitable waves and wrinkles that will come with getting a low cost screen. (This is a MODEL-B to boot.)


    So, basically, if I had to do it all over again, and was afforded the luxury of wall mounting a permanent screen, I would DEFINITELY NOT choose this material. I would go with a HCCV, and get that contrast really kicking some butt. But since I have to go with a non-tensioned pull-down, Hi-Power is really the ONLY way to go, for me.


    Sorry, it was neither short, nor sweet ... but there it is.


    :)


    -Tim
 

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Tim,


Sounds like you might be happiest adding a neutral density filter to your projector. adorama.com is a good place to check. Here is a set you could try. Just cut to fit and try the different intensities. Be aware that even the lowest one will cut your light quite a bit. I think about 50% for the one stop. If you find a setting that you like you could always get a more expensive glass filter later.


--Darin
 

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Tim,


I guess (1)-(3) in your list are simply the results of a brighter image. That means, although you may not be conscious of it yet, you may be seeing lot more details in the projected image? Obviously, (4) is the real drawback (or trade-off) of any high-gain screens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Darin and Sushi:


Thanks for the feedback.


Darin, actually I do like the brightness as it allows you to somehwhat be able to view a movie with low-to-mid ambient light levels present. I'll attach a couple of pics with lights on and lights off for comparison if anyone is interested.


Sushi:


Yes, most likely. Although #2 may NOT be a result of the brighter image. It could be the verticle banding was always there and I just did not notice it because I was viewing it on a white window shade which worked out to be about 65" diagnol. Could possibly account for the other items as well. But the vert. banding could be a LOT of things ... looks like a candidate for a seperate post to me! :)


Take care,

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
As promised, here are a couple of lights-on/lights-off comparison pics.


This one is the lights on (overhead, near full blast). Clearly not ideal, but very watchable for the most part.


-Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
And now, of course, as it was meant to be ... fully darkened room. (Other then light splash from having white walls and a huge mirror on the opposite wall ... DOH!
)


-Tim
 

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I am jazzed about your "lights on" pic because I am going for a much smaller diagonal with slightly more than 1/2 the diagonal and a Sanyo Z1.


Thanks for the efforts and the report. Obviously, nothing is perfect as your issues indicate, but still....


Mark
 

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Is you projector ceiling or table mounted? I would only consider the HP if you have a ceiling mounted projector. It sounds like your issues stem from the high gain you get from a table mounted projector.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ceiling mounted.


As I have said in many other posts recently for those that asked about the HP material, I would NEVER get the HP if the PJ was going to be table-mounted. I know that some people do, but there are too many negative issues with having it that bright with this PJ.
 

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Tim,


Both of your pictures are clearly overexposed with respect to the screen image (your camera was trying to capture the surroundings better). The whites are saturated on the screen and we cannot really appreciate the picture quality. Could you please re-post them with more than a few stops down in exposure? Or, you can just shoot the screen without the surroundings in the frame. Anyway, it does show how bright the screen is!


Also, have you experimented with temporarily covering up the mirror on the back wall to see if it improves the image at all? A big mirror surely sounds harmful...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Actually, the lights-on image is a little underexposed, as the surrounding room looked really much brighter than it appears in the picture.


But pictures are hardly a good measure of how "good" an image looks, as there are MANY factors ... including how the person's monitor who is viewing it is calibrated.


I was just trying to show how well the image showed up in a moderately lit room, that's all. The "lights-on" picture is very close to what the screen looks like (what my eyes see) when the room is partially lit. That COULD be the case on the "lights-off" picture though.


(Unless I'm misunderstanding your post.)


-Tim
 

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my 2cents says that coupling an LCD projector (with its inherent low CR and fill ratio) is probably not the perfect match for a high power screen. Also, I can imagine its high brightness makes the "need" for a high power screen a lesser one.

It seems to me that a grey (dark enhancing) screen a-la Firehawk or HCCV would probably be a better match.

Am I correct in my assumptions?

I'm planning to buy a High Power screen to go with my 7200 only because of its high CR and relatively low brightness compared to LCD projectors...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I would mostly agree, although with the 300u you have exceptional contrast and unbelievably good shadow detail for this level of PJ, and LCD to boot. It is better in this regard, than the higher-priced HS10 for example.


As I said, if it were not for the "wave-hiding" feature of the Hi-Power, I would *NOT* have purchased it. And if I had to table-mount the PJ I wouldn't even consider it.


Since it is ceiling mounted and I am viewing on the other side of the normal, I'd estimate the gain is not much more than a 1.2 equivelant. Others I'm sure have posted on the apparent amount of gain after ceiling mounting that is more accurate.
 

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timoteo,


You mention that if the projector was table mounted you wouldn't consider the high power material. What disadvantages other than being too bright would the high power have? Couldn't these disadvantages be overcome with a filter to cut down light output?


I'm considering the high power to eliminate waves and figure that any excess brighness can be eliminated using a filter. I'll also have some extra brightness if I wish to introduce ambient light. One big concern I have is the variability outside the optimum viewing cone and creating a suitable picure for people both inside and outside the cone. Worse case scenario is I change seating and ceiling mount I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Brando:


Well, the "being too bright" category of disadvantage has a few sub-categories that I personally could not live with really:


1) Hot-spotting

2) Greater impact on shadow detail and black level -- one of my main priorities. This would be a real shame on a projector as "gifted" in this area as the 300u.

3)


>>>"Couldn't these disadvantages be overcome with a filter to cut down light output?"
 

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I'm sorry, did anyone post the screen gain for the Hi Power screen in topic? I too am looking at screens for the Pan 300 and was looking at both the HCCV and the regular CV from Da-lite as well as the Draper 1300 (1.1 gain) and 2500 (2.1 gain) screens.


My understanding is that the panasonic will typically be running at low power (to keep noise low) which reduces brightness to 400 ANSI. Therefore, a higher gain screen might be a good match to pump up the otherwise diminished brightness/colors etc. My question is whether 2.1 gain is just insanely bright.


Gray vs. White - since panasonic shows decent contrast and shadows, the white screens may be a good match. The HCCV everyone loves is a moderately gray screen and I wonder if its necessary given the 800:1 contrast ratio and the potential for lowering brightness from an already modest 400 ANSI.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by timoteo
Brando:


Well, the "being too bright" category of disadvantage has a few sub-categories that I personally could not live with really:


1) Hot-spotting
I think just about everybody with a Hi-Power would agree that the hot-spotting is less than just about any other screen. Maybe you are talking about the variation that happens if the viewer moves, but this is different than hot-spotting, which is different levels of brightness in the image with the viewer staying in one spot.


I've said this before, but those people considering the Hi-Power with a ceiling mount should remember that their reflections that end up coming from the viewer's general direction wash out the image more than they would with a Matte White screen. I wouldn't recommend that configuration unless your walls are very dark.


With table mount you can spend $25 on neutral density filter material and use that to get the gain down to closer to 1.0 and then take the filter off when ambient light is around.


I'll be ceiling mounting my HT1000 soon and trying it with my Hi-Power and my HCMW. My first impression is that I will probably use the HCMW most of the time when the HT1000 is near the ceiling. This will require tensioning the HCMW to reduce the waves, though.


Tim,


It sounds like you like the brightness, but don't like some of the side effects of that. This is why I think you might end up liking it with the neutral density filter at times.


--Darin
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Darin:


Please post your results/comparison when you do this ... that will be really interesting to hear about.


How would one go about making a decent filter ... do you know of any posts here or elsewhere that explain how to do this. I'm somewhat (not completely) "handy-man"-challenged mind you. I did mount my PJ and screen by myself, but that might not be saying much. ;)


-Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hmmmm ... that would keep dust off the lens a lot of the time as well, Darin. Gets more tempting by the minute. I'm just wondering the best way to attach it?
 

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Quote:
Actually, the lights-on image is a little underexposed, as the surrounding room looked really much brighter than it appears in the picture.
Tim, I understand that. I was talking strictly about the optimal exposure with respect to the brightness of the screen image, which is obviously very bright as compared with the rest of the room. At least the lights-off image should look significantly better if you shoot so that the room surroundings look almost completely dark.



At any rate, the benefits of the High Power fabric, at least in theory, include (1) a brighter, more vivid image especially when projecting on a larger screen. For example, just going from 92" to 120" diagonal, the brightness will decrease by more than 40%, with accompanying loss of color saturation etc. (2) a better tolerance for ambient light, when and only when properly configured.


In order to maximize these benefits, you really need to have the projector close to the viewers' eye level.
 
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