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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


Other than the progressive input, is there anything new(or upgraded) in Piano HE 3200?


For better PQ, which should do the deinterlacing, the DVD player(eg. pioneer 747) or the piano?(or HTPC?)


Thanks!!!
 

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drobskyk,


The new Piano features the Silicon Image 504 chip, rather than the 503 in the current Piano. I don't know what are the differences between these 2 chips.


Joe
 

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It doesn't look like the differences between the Silicon Image 503 and 504 are of any significance to the user. The Sil 504 has a lower power consumption, it has one PLL instead of three in the 503. It can also directly output a component signal, without the need for any external logic. In short, these are improvements that simplify and probably lower the cost of the product that's using it, but aren't going to be visible to the end user.


-- Eldad.
 

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That doesn't surprise me since Plus didn't mention anything about the new scaler chip being any different.
 

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Actually, the Plus rep mentioned it to me at HE 2002, but it seemed so insignificant that I forgot to mention it altogether in my report!


BTW, to those who weren't impressed by the Piano demo at the show, I should clarify my prior statement: NONE of the DLP's I saw appeared to be performing at its optimal level INCLUDING the Piano.


With the fancy-schmantzy screen and all the experts in attendance, what I saw at the Piano demo was in no way comparable to the superb results I achieve at home projecting onto a randomly-chosen-shade white wall.


Part of what I think takes over at these events is that when the reps realize that there's no way around the fact that there's only limited control over ambient light, they pump up the brightness setting on the pj to compensate, and the blacks and the color saturation go straight to hell. That (and the mere fact of ambient light in and of itself) would account for the observations by some that the Piano's picture was "washed out" at the show.


I can tell you that with proper light control (which basically means "total darkness") and correct settings, a washed-out picture has never been a problem with this pj.


Also (and presumably for the same reasons), my colors are far deeper and more saturated (not to mention more correctly calibrated). I can't imagine the 3200 is any different than my 3100 in this regard (since nothing in the modifications would account for it), so I can only assume it wasn't a realistic look at the new model.


Next show I'm going to volunteer my services in advance. Compensation? Another one of those nifty key chains would be nice. (I'm easily entertained.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi,


Thanks for your helpful information!


Does anyone have the chance of A-B testing the PQ difference between the component and DVI input?(i.e. Is HTPC as vital as with AE100?)


Thanks!!!
 

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HTPC's provide the needed de-interlacing and scaling required by some PJ's to produce acceptable PQ. The Piano is acknowledged to have very good de-interlacing via its SI chip (some say comparable to Faroudja). And because the Piano does not need to scale, it's PQ out of the box is already very good. The general consensus is that an HTPC (via its DVI input of course)will only minimally improve PQ...little return for the investment. It's for these reasons that I have not pursued an HTPC for my Piano.
 

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The Sil504 chip fixes the chroma bug that's in the Sil503. That is something the end user cares about.


-phil
 

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All of these improvements mean nothing without a significant increase in brightness. Even when I moved the 3100 close enough to the screen to make the actual image smaller than my 56" widescreen Toshiba RPTV, it was still far too dim, at night, with all lights out. Who cares about a front projector if the screen can only be four feet wide (and still only half as bright as an NEC LT-150 at eight feet wide).


At 800 lumens, this projector would have been a smash success. As it is, its 450 lumens look a lot more like 200. My 400 lumen Sony 400Q (an LCD) looked ten times as bright.


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by catullus
As it is, its 450 lumens look a lot more like 200.

Mike
Does this mean that a high gain screen would be beneficial?


BTW, is it possible to adjust the projection angle of Piano? I see this function in its specification table, what's then its digital keystone adjustment for?
 

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Catullus;


I have the NEC-LT150 and am very satisfied with the picture quality.

I'ts the noise factor and lack of zoom that is forcing me to change projectors. Have you seen both the ]Piano and the NEC lt-150 in operaation? Does the Piano look pixelated by comparison (svga)?


Is the Piano appreciatively dimmer than the Lt-150?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by drobskyk
BTW, is it possible to adjust the projection angle of Piano? I see this function in its specification table, what's then its digital keystone adjustment for?
The only way to change the projection angle of the Piano is to physically tilt the projector and then correct the geometry via the digital keystone adjustment. I have to raise the back of the pj (thereby tilting it down in the front) so as not to overshoot the top of the wall (the projector is mounted on a too-high table); I compensate via the keystone correction (-6), and I can discern no visual penalties as a result. Your mileage may vary.


Others can speak about screens more authoritatively than I (with my white wall). High gain, generally speaking is a compromise: more brightness but less deep blacks and relatively limited viewing angle.


Contrary to the above observations, I find the brightness level of the Piano quite adequate in a totally dark room. But of course brightness isn't my primary criterion for projectors; if it is for you, then the Piano is the wrong choice.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by PhilB
The Sil504 chip fixes the chroma bug that's in the Sil503. That is something the end user cares about.


-phil
Phil, assuming that we're talking about the same bug, how could a de-interlacer have the chroma bug? That would mean that they actually take the signal and screw it up by moving chroma lines around to the wrong places??? So far I've only heard of MPEG decoders in DVD players that had that issue due to an error in the extraction of chroma data from the 4:2:0 encoding on the DVD.


Also, there are quite a few DVD players that have been proved to NOT have the upsampling bug and DO use the 503.


By the way, it would be interesting to note that if you did have a deinterlacer inside the Piano that actually switched chroma lines, it would actually FIX the problem if your DVD player also had it... :cool:


-- Eldad.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by PhilB
The Sil504 chip fixes the chroma bug that's in the Sil503. That is something the end user cares about.
What is your source of this information? How come this has never been mentioned before in discussions about the Piano?
 

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I've never seen the upsampling bug mentioned either, in any review of the Piano, or in any discussion on AVS (which I checked via a search). Nor can I see anything of the sort in my Piano's picture. (I do see it quite distinctly on my laptop's DVD-ROM, which I noticed even before I'd ever heard of the chroma bug. As soon as I read about it, I knew the PC's player had it.)


BTW, if the light output of the Piano is inadquate to catullus, projecting at less than 56 inches in a totally dark room, then brightness is far more important to him than it is to me. As far as comparing its light output to a RPTV, that's not really a realistic comparison for most DLP front projectors, though some of course will fare better than others. (I'll resist any response to the comment about the Sony 400Q, other than to say I've seen this pj in action a lot [and came very close to buying it a few years ago], and though I can't comment on the brightness issue, nothing else about the Sony's picture would cause me to prefer it to the Piano [same for the 10HT and 11HT, other than the pixel count].)


I wonder whether catullus's Piano was defective in some way (perhaps the lamp...). If not, I suppose it's just a matter of personal preference. No projector is perfect (especially those built to a price point), and it's always a question of which tradeoffs you're willing to accept.
 

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I have to agree with bublitchki on the issue of "brightness" and its associated benefits. My Piano is not as "bright" as my 36" Sony XBR, but watching a movie on my TV is nothing like watching a movie in a theater, which the Piano replicates much more closely.


If a theater-like experience is what one is tying to acheive, I've never noticed a theater being that "bright", either. As has often been said, no projector is perfect, but taken with its particular set of limitations, the Piano performs extremely well. I don't loose detail, shadowing, or contrast with the Piano. The silky smooth picture is even better now with an upgrade to some excellent component cables.


How bright your picture is must indeed a matter of personal preference, but the group of first-timers I just had over to watch what I thought would be the first 5 minutes of "Private Ryan" just left, at the end of the credits. None of them said the picture was too dim.
 

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I am a Piano owner who wishes the PJ were just a little brighter. (Not that anyone in my family has any reservations about watching it on our 87" wide KBK digital grey screen in preference to our excellent 36" Toshiba progressive scan TV). So here's my question:


Has anyone out there used it with the Firehawk screen? If so, what other screen materials have you used with the Piano, and does the Firehawk brighten it up?
 

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Tom Carey;

Use a Dalite High Power screen; (that's High Power, not High Contrast).

Grant Smyth was the tireless advocate for this screen when using DLP with relatively low lumens, and he was right. For some strange reason people seem slow to get the point. Using a grey screen with low lumens is like watching a movie with sunglasses on.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by quietman
For some strange reason people seem slow to get the point. Using a grey screen with low lumens is like watching a movie with sunglasses on.
I can only assume that people would think the gray helps the contrast and colour saturation without taking into account the loss of brightness.
 
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