AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm thinking about building another diy sub. I built a dual 13w7 last time. Sq is great and output is sick. I'm looking to build something even sicker with two drivers if possible.


Probably 15'' drivers. I want it to be as small as possible. Are the lms drivers the best money can buy?


I will use this for music so sq is very important. I'm not familiar with how a dual opposed sub works. Do they require less cabinet volume. I like the fact that you can make the enclosure alot shorter than putting one driver stacked on top of the other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,937 Posts
The lms drivers are the best. Good luck finding some though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,771 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff76 /forum/post/16852048


How would the sound splinter rl-s 15'' compare to the lms 15''. Anybody have any build experience with the rl-s series?


How is the sqon the rl-s

Well, the TSP's are awful. If it wasn't so SPL geared (look at that QTS!), it'd probably be ok. Although SS does say the TSP's are a bit "weird"


Just a heads up...Sealed, two 13W7's will likely outperform a single 15" TC5400/LMS Ultra. You better step it up to 18" or twin 15's if you want a performance gain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,347 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff76 /forum/post/16851178


I'm thinking about building another diy sub. I built a dual 13w7 last time. Sq is great and output is sick. I'm looking to build something even sicker with two drivers if possible.


Probably 15'' drivers. I want it to be as small as possible. Are the lms drivers the best money can buy?


I will use this for music so sq is very important. I'm not familiar with how a dual opposed sub works. Do they require less cabinet volume. I like the fact that you can make the enclosure alot shorter than putting one driver stacked on top of the other.

just in case you aren't aware, subwoofers generally have four dimensions:


1. efficiency (maximum spl)


2. size


3. frequency depth


4. cost


the first three are components of "hoffman's iron law". the 4th is not attributable to anyone, but matters to most.


optimizing across four variables in any setting is not trivial. for example, if i were to say, holding all else constant, what is the dollar cost that you would be willing to pay for 1db added efficiency or -0.1 cubic foot enclosure size is beyond most's capacity to answer.


you mention "as small as possible". surely you don't mean without regard to efficiency, frequency depth, or cost.


since subwoofers excite the sound of the room as much as anything, you can often cheat on efficiency by finding the placement that provides for optimally loud (or possibly optimally smooth) response.


so that is a lot of wind in order to say to that "general theory of subwoofer design" does not yet exist. papers by sean olive, floyd toole, earl geddes, et al show various benefits, of various designs, and various placements. i even wrote a short and humble paper on subwoofer performance which is linked up in my signature.


moreover, there are an increasing number of folks who see sub-bass and mid-bass as two distinctions. the lower characterised by high power, high mass, long-excursion, low efficiency, drivers, while the other is characterised by medium power, low mass, short-excursion, very highly magnetically damped, very efficient drivers.


so that is a lot wind too!


i suppose what i am saying is that there is a lot to consider, the problem is multi-dimensional, and there is no readily applicable solution that provides optimal results in all circumstances.


more information on what you are trying to achieve is required before honest rec's can be offered.


then, if that is not enough, your room may have modes that creates significant ringing/resonances that make your bass sound flabby even if your drivers are tight as a drum.


additionally, isolating your subwoofer from the room via a vibration free bass may be helpful.


so much to consider.


hopefully, all this can be brought together soon, but for now, it hasn't been.


good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,607 Posts
At the most recent GTG, the 18" LMS 5400 was in a sealed box that was, I think, 1 layer thick, and the driver was very impressive. The stroke was phenomenal and the output was really good in such a small enclosure. The box was actually rocking back and forth. I think that if the box was double thick and extra heavy, this driver in a sealed alignment would be hard to beat- 1 on 1 by any driver in the same size box. I liked the XXX, but the box needs to be a lot larger to function correctly.


Good luck,


Robert
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,995 Posts
An excellent idea for a sealed sub, dual opposed 15's. As others have stated the LMS drivers were qute the performer. Music being your major priority i assume, dipole bass may be the best bet for you, with a low tuned ported sub for the sub 30hz range. See Linkwitz on the topic. A pair of high QTS pro 15's or 18's in a suitable H frame should have excellent SQ. IB bass is about as clean as it gets, but difficult to impliment. I helped a friend with an IB system for critical music......two arrays of 4 RSS390HF's per side next to a free standing pair of modified Magnepans.....all i can say is WOW.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,347 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasyachkin /forum/post/16852966


i would say:


best sub for music - WORX/Beehive


best sub for home theater - XXX


best sub for combination music/HT - LMS


best sub for being a retard - Jackhammer

want to dispute jbl w1500h (sealed), one in each corner for optimal combination music/ht?


if so, go ahead.


:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,547 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff76 /forum/post/16851178


I'm not familiar with how a dual opposed sub works. Do they require less cabinet volume. I like the fact that you can make the enclosure alot shorter than putting one driver stacked on top of the other.

I don't know exactly how to explain all the benefits of dual opposing subs (Bosso or Mark Seaton, some help here) but the main benefit I know of is that it keeps the enclosure steady with the drivers working in opposite directions in phase with each other.

If you were to place a glass of water on top of your dual JL sub it would shake and possibly fall off with heavy bass material as the force of the drivers are working in the same direction. If you were to place those drivers in the same enclosure but have them opposed the glass of water would shake a heck of alot less since the force of the drivers are working in opposite directions.


Mark Seatons Submersive subs are about the hottest selling subs on this forum and they use dual opposed 15" drivers. Bossobass does the same thing and even though I have not heard his subs they look like they sound great



I would suppose that by keeping the enclosure as inert as possible by opposing the drivers then the drivers could be more efficient. If the driver pushes and the box moves back then some of the energy of the driver is lost, if the box does not move either way then the better.


Hopefully this made sense, I know I already confused my-self
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yah, i'm definitly not deprived. The jls have more than enough output and sound great. It will be hard to better them.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio /forum/post/16853361


As far as drivers are concerned why not wait awhile and see if the LMS 15 or better yet 18 becomes available again. You already have a great set-up with your JL's so it is not like your deprived.


Maybe for a project in the meantime make a dual opposing enclosure for your JL's so you can compare which you like better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,558 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles /forum/post/16852142


At the most recent GTG, the 18" LMS 5400 was in a sealed box that was, I think, 1 layer thick, and the driver was very impressive. The stroke was phenomenal and the output was really good in such a small enclosure. The box was actually rocking back and forth. I think that if the box was double thick and extra heavy, this driver in a sealed alignment would be hard to beat- 1 on 1 by any driver in the same size box. I liked the XXX, but the box needs to be a lot larger to function correctly.


Good luck,


Robert

Yep. The LMS is tough to beat. The box that I had at the GTG is 21.5" on all sides if I remember right, but murdered every other sub there that was anywhere close to the same size in all around performance IMO. I would like to see a pair of AV15h's in the same size box compared to an LMS18. The XXX has more powerful sub 35hz bass, but it needs a bigger box. However in an 8cu ft net sealed box the XXX 18 has in room extension down to the 16-20hz range without needing EQ boost at all, which is pretty cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasyachkin /forum/post/16852966


i would say:


best sub for music - WORX/Beehive


best sub for home theater - XXX


best sub for combination music/HT - LMS


best sub for being a retard - Jackhammer

+1


With the addition of some of JBL's higher end offerings (2269H/1500AL), perhaps the AE TD series, Aura's and a few others for the music category. Anyone heard of the Alumapro M16?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,326 Posts
A lot of recommendations for a lot of very good drivers, but "best" is a matter of selecting the correct trade-offs for your specific application. Best for you may not be best for me. I would add distortion to the list mentioned above. Example, I run a pair of Peerless '500's. 99% music. I don't play very loud an prefer low Q sealed boxes. They are tuned for my room. Best for me, but a great many on this list would consider then totally too weak. Yet another may consider a pair of 60L boxes too big.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ok let me give some specifics.


I have dual jl 13 w7s powered by a qsc 4050 hd, eq is a velodyne sms-1. This sub has poped some nails from vibrating the sheetrock and rattled one of my deer mounts off the wall. It has great output, and sq is good too. I'm not worried about crazy output at 10hz.


It has to sound good with music and home theatre. More concerned with 20hz and up output.


I want to build a sub to top my current one. Two drivers, small sealed enclosure. My enclosure now is not even 5 cf. It can be a little bigger but i don't want an huge enclosure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,607 Posts
What db levels are you getting with the current setup at listening position?
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top