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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
............between White and a highly reflective Gray.


Recently a call went out to see some examples, and this Thread is a direct result.


A little "pre-presentation" background.


110" diagonal Sintra panel inset into 16" deep x 110" wide by 70" tall Shadowbox. Overlaid onto the Sintra Screen is a 3' x 5' piece of Sintra S[rayed with SF v2.1 5.0 (*5 oz. Colorant to mix)


Epson 8700ub 14' throw Ceiling Mounted w/18" Drop Pole


Fairly high Ambient light from two opposing Windows 15' back from each side of Screen


"INTENSE" Floods in Can Light Fixtures almost directly overhead of the Screen Box


OK......here's a look at the Screen:




In the next six shots, the Topmost image is in the natural Sun supplied Ambient light, while the Bottom image is getting washed by the Incandescent Can/Floods:














So there it is...a White to Advanced Gray comparison....again.


A few more for good measure..........






Now as of today, the Screen itself is now complete with a coating of SF v2.1 4.0 (*5 oz. Colorant to mix)


I will follow up soon with reversed imagery showing White Sintra overlaid against the Silver Fire.


So...................comments?
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Glue. White Lightening Adhesive Caulk to be precise, applied in continuous 1/4" thick beads from Top to Bottom spaced 1" apart, then troweled out to create an almost evenly covered pad across the surface.
 

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Looking forward to the reverse imagery.
 

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the hardest thing explain to some folks would be... is with THAT much ambient light... that they are actually visually seeing the white screen itself...and it is adversly affecting what may appear brighter on the white screen... which is really incorrect... ie colors that shades TOO light and very light shades of gray that are now white.


before you do the reverse imagery... it might be affective to place the dark screen on the opposite side of the screen...so you have an idea of what the other side should look like.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd /forum/post/20856131


Cool! thanks for adding the screen pics. It was actually i who asked and i can deff see the difference in the way the pic comes out in contrast. What paint mix did you use for the gray screen??

SF v2.1 4.0 (*4 oz. Colorant to mix)


"That's what I said!"


Everything is complete....however I must wait until Wednesday to return to take some more "reverse" shots.



Got a few though, of the completed Theater just below.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue
I am convinced !!!!


Thanks MM for all yor efforts. Bought myself your recommended sprayer too.


(BTW...I hope that is a RETURN and not a SUPPLY grill just above the projector.....DUST BLOBS)
That's a AC Supply Grill. Can't be helped. However despite all the FooFaRa about Dust Blobs, for anyone adept enough to use a Screw Driver and a Can of Compressed Air, accessing the Light Path and blowing any "post Receipt" Dust Blobs out is really a LOT easier than simply re-boxing a unit back up and exchanging it.


The real truth is this....Epson is the ONLY LCD Mfg willing to just exchange a unit out of hand for such a minor occurrence. In short...they are spoiling people rotten.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan
Everything is complete....however I must wait until Wednesday to return to take some more "reverse" shots.



Got a few though, of the completed Theater just below.
And here they are.

110" diagonal SF v2.1 4.0 painted Sintra Screen




I didn't have time to reverse shoot "White over SF" yet, but I did overlay the original SF v2.1 5.0 3' x 5' panel.


That's actually "all good" because one can also see how the step down into a darker Sf can make a noticeable difference.











Kinda makes me wanna give it a big hug.....


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd
Cool! thanks for adding the screen pics. It was actually i who asked and i can deff see the difference in the way the pic comes out in contrast...
well then...

here's a couple of screenshots to chew on...

of note are the silver fire 7.0 top right and the silver 8.0 in the center




 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
115" diagonal SF 2.1 3.0


Epson 9350 @ 12.5' Throw


Scads of Light from 6- 6" 90 watt Spots and 2- Sconces


The difference between a Matte White Reference and the 3.0 surface.




Here we go....










All should note that the images taken (except the 1st) were all taken from over 20' from the Screen, so no attempt to allow the camera to compensate by using Zoom was attempted....save to frame the desired wider area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

So what sample was the projector calibrated to for gray scale?


I did no calibration on either the 8700 or 9350 for either/any series of shots. Settings were "Out of the Box". Although doing such might have given the darker Gray screens a even decidedly better advantage, no such leeway was deemed necessary due to the inherent properties and advantages the Screen formulas showed. For my part, I prefer the increased levels of Black rendition more that trying to boost whites back up to a point where they might have looked closer to what is represented on the White examples.


Colors certainly did not need any such assistance.


But I will be doing some calibration before too long.


No...the sole intended purpose was to respond to another request to see the difference between White & Gray, and naturally I did so using what I felt was the best possible method to illustrate such examples. I also might add that the shots were taken at the end of a day's work, or while working on other items, and so were not really dedicated efforts as much as time and opportunity being taking advantage of.


Quote:
What was the lighting level during calibration?

I show three levels of lighting.


Daylight Ambient

Directed Incandescent

Indirect Incandescent Ambient


Glad to see you post, Bud, and thanks for the Prompt. The first location might be difficult to retake after a Calibration because it's a location already now in heavy use and therefore might pose an inconvenience to the End User.


But the second? Well, I have a key, the house is empty for two weeks starting yesterday, so I just might decide to give it a go and show those shots taken once again after a round of calibration.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/20865148


...For my part, I prefer the increased levels of Black rendition more that trying to boost whites back up to a point where they might have looked closer to what is represented on the White examples.


Colors certainly did not need any such assistance.

Here's to the point... with that much ambient light present whether direct/indirect or daylight... on a white screen, no amount of calibration will get back the black levels to match any advanced grey screen... as black levels on a white screen are not real... they are nothing more than perceived. if you can SEE your screen, then the deepest black level you will get is the screen itself (the real color)... so if you can SEE the white of your screen... then kiss your perceived black levels GOODBYE!

 
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