In the studio where my band plays, one of the rooms where I'm recording some of my guitar parts is treated with carpet all over the walls. It's some kind of Acoustic carpet not as thick as flooring carpet. Would a treatment like this work in a home theater? The room has no echo and sounds good. I know were talking different rooms here, I just wanted to see what you guys thought. Redhouse
Acoustic Treatment Question
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No echo might be good for a studio where you can make the sound wet electronically. But a home theater needs some life to it. Seach the internet for acoustical treatment. You wll find that it's customary to completely deaden the first reflection points. The first reflection points are those areas that the sound hits and bounces ONE time before reaching your ears. Think three dimensionally and you will discover spots on the left and right walls, the floor, the ceiling and, one that is usually missed, the back wall. Some suggest a small mirror be moved around and where someone in the seating area can see the speakers, that is a first reflection point. That takes two people and a lot of patience, but gives you an idea of where to look. The first reflection points are the first areas to treat - make sure it's a broadband absorber - because the sound coming from them is very close time-wise to the direct sound from the speakers and muddles the sound and confuses the brain. Beyond those first points, a certain amount of absorption AND diffusion. It gets complicated. Google and read everything you can find. Eventually, it will start to make sense and you can formulate a plan.
BTW, carpet is NOT a broadband absorber.
Follw the link in my sig and see how I treated my walls. ONly my front cavity is "finished" while the other spots have only carpet - so far.
BTW, carpet is NOT a broadband absorber.
Follw the link in my sig and see how I treated my walls. ONly my front cavity is "finished" while the other spots have only carpet - so far.
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Red,
> Would a treatment like this work in a home theater? The room has no echo and sounds good.
> Would a treatment like this work in a home theater? The room has no echo and sounds good.
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Redhouse - Ethan's right on this and it's good that you read his material. In all fairness, you should read everything else you can find, too. As this can get complex, there are - surprise - different schools of thought. Keep posting here on AVS and you will get a sampling of the different approaches. I know a few things about acoustics and I am still not able to reconcile the different approaches. What i can tell you is to keep it simple; squeezing the last iota of "performance" out of your system/room - yes, they are tightly interrelated - can be a monumentally expensive and daunting proposition.
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Pepar,
> squeezing the last iota of "performance" ... can be a monumentally expensive and daunting proposition.
> squeezing the last iota of "performance" ... can be a monumentally expensive and daunting proposition.
The stuff I'm asking about is called, Sound System Acoustical Wall coverings.
Vertex, FR Vertex, Technique Textiles, Tecnion Fiber System. It's made by Beaulieu of America. I can't find any info on line about it. But the guy at the studio said it's very different then adding just carpet to a wall. It has some kind of backing that does the work. Anybody ever heard of this? Thanks Redhouse
Vertex, FR Vertex, Technique Textiles, Tecnion Fiber System. It's made by Beaulieu of America. I can't find any info on line about it. But the guy at the studio said it's very different then adding just carpet to a wall. It has some kind of backing that does the work. Anybody ever heard of this? Thanks Redhouse
Here's a link to what I'm asking about.
http://www.silentsource.com/fwallcoverings.html
It's a differnt company, but same product.
http://www.silentsource.com/fwallcoverings.html
It's a differnt company, but same product.
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Pepar:
> for those and many more, spending that much on power cords would be considered absurd. That's why the first thing he needs to do is educate himself. Here's a link to what I'm asking about.
> for those and many more, spending that much on power cords would be considered absurd. That's why the first thing he needs to do is educate himself. Here's a link to what I'm asking about.
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Ethan's right, Redhouse. This stuff is fairly consistant until it gets below 500Hz. After that, it drops like a stone. Look for sound absorption that is balanced across the entire audible spectrum. Hint: Carpet, even with an inch of padding on the back, won't do it.
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| Originally posted by Redhouse Here's a link to what I'm asking about. http://www.silentsource.com/fwallcoverings.html It's a differnt company, but same product. |
125 250 500 1000 2000 4000 NCR
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What if I treated the walls with the Acoustic wall-coverings and then added bass-traps to each corner? The walls would be covered in the treatment's, the ceiling is finished drywall and the floor is going to be carpet. I could get the wall coverings really cheap in the colors that I want. For bass traps I would like to have the smallest ones that could really disappear into the room and not stand out to much. The chart on the wall-covering website what am I looking at?
Ethan I read through your site, great information.
Ethan I read through your site, great information.
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If you really want to speculate about what to use where, there are free room calculators that allow you to input room dimensions and proposed coverings/treatments. It will return data that will tell you if it's too live or too dead. If your room is square or rectangular, there are calculators that will tell you where your room nodes will be. I don't know if there's one that specs bass traps, but there seems to be one for everything else. FWIW, I used ETF Acoustics software to find the best place for my dual subs. And then I used it again to adjust my parametric EQ. I have no traps and I have an in-room bass response +/- 5db from 16Hz to the 80Hz DD x-over frequency.
Another point: bass traps are never small. And the lower the frequency to be trapped, the larger they are.
| Originally posted by Redhouse What if I treated the walls with the Acoustic wall-coverings and then added bass-traps to each corner? The walls would be covered in the treatment's, the ceiling is finished drywall and the floor is going to be carpet. I could get the wall coverings really cheap in the colors that I want. For bass traps I would like to have the smallest ones that could really disappear into the room and not stand out to much. The chart on the wall-covering website what am I looking at? |
Another point: bass traps are never small. And the lower the frequency to be trapped, the larger they are.
Pepar, thank you for all your input. Where would I find a free room calculator?
I can have a week to go to decide to either go with a Pro to install the acoustic treatment and spend a lot, or take the advice of many others and try the DIY treatment route. I love the wall-covering look, it's clean and the color choices are great. If you look at my other post "Redhouse Theater Rebuild" you will see more about the room. I also can't avoid placing a seat and a person in one corner. Thanks Again Redhouse
I can have a week to go to decide to either go with a Pro to install the acoustic treatment and spend a lot, or take the advice of many others and try the DIY treatment route. I love the wall-covering look, it's clean and the color choices are great. If you look at my other post "Redhouse Theater Rebuild" you will see more about the room. I also can't avoid placing a seat and a person in one corner. Thanks Again Redhouse
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It's always time vs. money, isn't it? 
Here's the room node calculator I use. And here's a reverb time calculator that is helpful in understanding just what it's doing. I understand completely HT design that is in part driven by aesthetics. The carpet I glued on the wall - an extremely difficult and messy task - complete with american chestnut chair rail, was originally meant for looks and acoustics untill I learned that carpet is not a good acoustical treatment. As I was not completely covering the walls, I went with it anyway. I expect to add diffusion, so I believe I can undo any undesirable efects from it. And it looks mah-velous! To achieve REAL absorption, I purchased Johns Manville Linacoustic from a local HVAC distributor which I used to line the cavity behind my false wall. I could "get away" with this material because it is not seen. For absorption at the other first reflection points - the ones that will be seen - I purchased - also from a local HVAC distributor - Owens Corning SelectSound Black . Even though this is more "finished" than the Linacoustic, it still requires building it into a frame and covering with acoustically transparent cloth - Guilford of Maine (GOM), in my case. In large part, my design has been guided by an extremely helpful chap at THX who directed me to the materials and kept me on course on how to use them.
Sit the mother-in-law in the corner seat.
| Originally posted by Redhouse Pepar, thank you for all your input. Where would I find a free room calculator? I can have a week to go to decide to either go with a Pro to install the acoustic treatment and spend a lot, or take the advice of many others and try the DIY treatment route. I love the wall-covering look, it's clean and the color choices are great. If you look at my other post "Redhouse Theater Rebuild" you will see more about the room. I also can't avoid placing a seat and a person in one corner. Thanks Again Redhouse |
Here's the room node calculator I use. And here's a reverb time calculator that is helpful in understanding just what it's doing. I understand completely HT design that is in part driven by aesthetics. The carpet I glued on the wall - an extremely difficult and messy task - complete with american chestnut chair rail, was originally meant for looks and acoustics untill I learned that carpet is not a good acoustical treatment. As I was not completely covering the walls, I went with it anyway. I expect to add diffusion, so I believe I can undo any undesirable efects from it. And it looks mah-velous! To achieve REAL absorption, I purchased Johns Manville Linacoustic from a local HVAC distributor which I used to line the cavity behind my false wall. I could "get away" with this material because it is not seen. For absorption at the other first reflection points - the ones that will be seen - I purchased - also from a local HVAC distributor - Owens Corning SelectSound Black . Even though this is more "finished" than the Linacoustic, it still requires building it into a frame and covering with acoustically transparent cloth - Guilford of Maine (GOM), in my case. In large part, my design has been guided by an extremely helpful chap at THX who directed me to the materials and kept me on course on how to use them.
Sit the mother-in-law in the corner seat.
I need some advice, I have the riser for the second row, which is as big as I could go if I wanted more then one row. The thing is, by having to rows I end up placing the back row right at the back wall and one side wall. From what I have been reading, this will sound like crap. What can I do to treat the back wall and the one side wall so that sitting in the back row will sound good. The surrounds are going to be mounted up above the seating pointing down a little. Am I screwed or will I be OK? I'm redoing the room within my budget, which didn't allow me to rip out and build from scratch. so I'm left with retro fitting what I have, to some how achieve a awesome movie and music experience. Thanks Redhouse
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What are your room dimensions? Do you absolutely need to be scrunched against side and rear walls? It's just bad. I noticed that your screen is tight against a wall, too. And this is preventing your speakers from being mounted left and right of the screen. Just a lot of "issues" with this setup . . .
| Originally posted by Redhouse I need some advice, I have the riser for the second row, which is as big as I could go if I wanted more then one row. The thing is, by having to rows I end up placing the back row right at the back wall and one side wall. From what I have been reading, this will sound like crap. What can I do to treat the back wall and the one side wall so that sitting in the back row will sound good. The surrounds are going to be mounted up above the seating pointing down a little. Am I screwed or will I be OK? I'm redoing the room within my budget, which didn't allow me to rip out and build from scratch. so I'm left with retro fitting what I have, to some how achieve a awesome movie and music experience. Thanks Redhouse |
The part of the room where the screen and everything is, is 14x25. The wall where the screen sits is the biggest wall in size, the screen takes up the whole wall with 114 inch screen. The wall next to the screen is there with nothing I can do about it. The room runs the foundation walls. Same thing in the back. The hall next to the screen leads to a bathroom and utility room. Off the side of the back is the "L" 12x12 with 2 doors and a stairway leading up. The theater is in the biggest part of the basement. I want to find a way to make this work. When the house was built we had them sound proof the basement, knowing we wanted to do a dedicated theater down there. But with the way the house is the basement has an odd shape. I know it's not the perfect room for a dedicated theater, but it's what I have to work with. Redhouse
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