AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 69 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
With the virus out roaming the streets my unused lunch money is adding up and I'm itching to stimulate the economy. Hoping you'll weigh in with suggestions...last year I pulled my music listening off the home theater set-up and am currently listening through Martin Logan bookshelf speakers (LX16) and an old Denon AVR1400 I had in storage. I bought a Uturn Orbit and a Schitt Mani and have built up a small vinyl collection. Bass was a little lacking so I ran a cable to my HSU VTF-2 MK4 (on the home theater system) but it's way too much and I don't want to mess with the sub settings. I have that dialed in for TV and movies. My initial thought was to buy an SVS SB2000 Pro for the music system and then later, if I want to upgrade the sound, buy a 2 channel receiver instead of the Denon AVR. However, now I'm wondering if I should just save up more money and buy floor speakers instead of the sub and receiver. Might be able to use the floor speakers on my home theater too. Thoughts? My goal is sound quality. Mostly I listen to classic rock and some new stuff...then blues and soul. A budget of $1200ish. This whole system got built because a buddy bought me an album and I didn't have a turntable. I can't justify spending too much. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,572 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: Ryan Statz

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,185 Posts
Buy floor standing speakers, nothing is more important than speakers. If you use the bookshelf, don't think any amp/receiver will make it have more bass or bottom. It's the speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,944 Posts
Buy floor standing speakers, nothing is more important than speakers. If you use the bookshelf, don't think any amp/receiver will make it have more bass or bottom. It's the speakers.
I agree with alan, buy floor standing speakers. Speakers make a thousand times more difference than electronics. That is why those in the know recommend spending about 75% of your budget on speakers. Also there are excellent subwoofers available for considerably less than the SVS SB2000 Pro, like the Rythmik mentioned above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
True...maybe the question is this...can bookshelf speakers and a sub sound as good/better than full speakers for the same money? If so than I'd go that route and later upgrade the receiver, which might tweek the sound up a level and give me another feature, like streaming.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,944 Posts
True...maybe the question is this...can bookshelf speakers and a sub sound as good/better than full speakers for the same money? If so than I'd go that route and later upgrade the receiver, which might tweek the sound up a level and give me another feature, like streaming.
You are all ready using bookshelf speakers and your HSU subwoofer, apparently you are not completely satisfied. There are some good floor standing speakers within your budget, (or a little more).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
To be fair, I'm sure I could be satisfied with the HSU but I have it ported and tuned for the home theater. I don't want to be adjusting back and forth for music and movies. For movies I like the feel of that rumbling bass but for music I just want a fuller sound. Big rumbling bass in that setting is just a distraction...well, for me it is. Votes for floor speakers are out to an early lead...suggestions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
I recently added an integrated amp which I use in same room as my avr. I am happy with the difference in sound I am noticing between integrated amp and avr. Im not smart enough to know why...but its different/better in fullness. now, I also agree its speakers 1st. but find speakers that sound fuller with gear you have. or you may never solve problem. all gear doesnt sound the same.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,185 Posts
True...maybe the question is this...can bookshelf speakers and a sub sound as good/better than full speakers for the same money? If so than I'd go that route and later upgrade the receiver, which might tweek the sound up a level and give me another feature, like streaming.
NO!!!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,185 Posts
I agree with alan, buy floor standing speakers. Speakers make a thousand times more difference than electronics. That is why those in the know recommend spending about 75% of your budget on speakers. Also there are excellent subwoofers available for considerably less than the SVS SB2000 Pro, like the Rythmik mentioned above.
I don't know SVS, but I love my Rythmik. Not only it sounds so good, love the looks. I put a piece of glass top and make a pretty end table.


Yes, the speakers define the system, everything else is to bring the best out of the speakers.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,282 Posts
Buy floor standing speakers, nothing is more important than speakers. If you use the bookshelf, don't think any amp/receiver will make it have more bass or bottom. It's the speakers.
A solid pair of bookshelf speakers + a good sub from HSU, Rythmik or PSA will outclass towers/floorstanders on their own. If his budget is $1200, he's not going to be able to get a good pair of towers, and have no room in his budget for a sub. He can get a lot more speaker with bookshelves at his budget.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,185 Posts
A solid pair of bookshelf speakers + a good sub from HSU, Rythmik or PSA will outclass towers/floorstanders on their own. If his budget is $1200, he's not going to be able to get a good pair of towers, and have no room in his budget for a sub. He can get a lot more speaker with bookshelves at his budget.
Buy used. I did, particularly some that are 10 to 15 years old.


No, I don't think bookshelf have the bottom like the floor stander. I don't mean just bass, it's the bottom, the sub cannot do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,282 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: CruelInventions

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I recently added an integrated amp which I use in same room as my avr. I am happy with the difference in sound I am noticing between integrated amp and avr. Im not smart enough to know why...but its different/better in fullness. now, I also agree its speakers 1st. but find speakers that sound fuller with gear you have. or you may never solve problem. all gear doesnt sound the same.

Cool, thanks. I talked to a local shop when I upgraded to the Schitt Mani and he said after a good phono preamp the next upgrade was to a dedicated 2 channel amp. Mostly just because
your money buys better quality if it's not spread out over all the functions a home theater needs. However, when he suggested the amp next, I wasn't considering adding a sub or new speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
True...maybe the question is this...can bookshelf speakers and a sub sound as good/better than full speakers for the same money? If so than I'd go that route and later upgrade the receiver, which might tweek the sound up a level and give me another feature, like streaming.
Bookshelf speakers and a sub can be much, much better than floor standing speakers. BUT, you need to have the smaller speakers crossed over at about 80hz and MUST have good room correction, being Anthem room correction or Dirac Live.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,185 Posts
I don't think a bookshelf with sub can be equal to a bigger floor stander. I have two pairs of bookshelf and I have floor standers, I also have 2 subs. It's NOT the same. Particularly for movies, you need something to handle more power, a bookshelf just won't cut it.

Particular in this case, the choice is between a better amp or a floor stander, there should be NO debate that putting the money on a better floor stander is the best bang for the buck.

Put it in another way, if bookshelf+sub is as good, then people just spend 1/3 the money on a bookshelf and just get sub and it's all done. NOT.

I looked at quite a few brands, to every line in the brand, the bookshelf is like 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the floor stander in the same line. You really think people are that stupid to keep buying floor standers where all you need to do is pay 1/3 to buy the bookshelf and get a sub and be done with.

You really think a bookshelf can give you the wall shaking volume for tv and movies.....I am not talking about low frequency, I am just talking about the loudness of the sound........a 4" to 6" little speaker?

I have both bookshelf and floor standers. AND I have good sub.............. They are NOT the same.


As for my personal experience, I use the system to watch tv/movies 99/9% at the time in 2 channels mode. I keep my sub very low, even if I turn off the sub, it really doesn't make much difference. With a bookshelf, you really have to work on the placement of the sub and speakers to get the right frequency crossover between the sub and the speakers. You sure you can optimize it? Or just get a floorstander and be done with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: glangford and torii

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
I don't think a bookshelf with sub can be equal to a bigger floor stander. I have two pairs of bookshelf and I have floor standers, I also have 2 subs. It's NOT the same. Particularly for movies, you need something to handle more power, a bookshelf just won't cut it.

Particular in this case, the choice is between a better amp or a floor stander, there should be NO debate that putting the money on a better floor stander is the best bang for the buck.

Put it in another way, if bookshelf+sub is as good, then people just spend 1/3 the money on a bookshelf and just get sub and it's all done. NOT.

I looked at quite a few brands, to every line in the brand, the bookshelf is like 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the floor stander in the same line. You really think people are that stupid to keep buying floor standers where all you need to do is pay 1/3 to buy the bookshelf and get a sub and be done with.

You really think a bookshelf can give you the wall shaking volume for tv and movies.....I am not talking about low frequency, I am just talking about the loudness of the sound........a 4" to 6" little speaker?

I have both bookshelf and floor standers. AND I have good sub.............. They are NOT the same.


As for my personal experience, I use the system to watch tv/movies 99/9% at the time in 2 channels mode. I keep my sub very low, even if I turn off the sub, it really doesn't make much difference. With a bookshelf, you really have to work on the placement of the sub and speakers to get the right frequency crossover between the sub and the speakers. You sure you can optimize it? Or just get a floorstander and be done with it.
Yes, the blending of the speakers and subwoofers can be very seamless, with the mentioned room correction. And can bookshelf speakers be played louder without distortion above 80hz than tower speakers can playing full range? Absolutely!
Never underestimate the power of good room correction, but everyone that hasn't experienced it does, it's too bad. And usually the subwoofer is in optimal position not where your speakers are, so with tower speakers you get what you get for bass response, unless you have the freedom to move the speakers to wherever the best bass response is.
Unfortunately, that's not going to be where you get the best from the mids and highs.
Personally, high end headphones and room correction are my greatest audio discoveries in the last 25 years.
And yes, I do think people are stupid for paying 2 to 3 times more for a tower speaker, instead of the bookshelf speaker from the same line plus subs and room correction.
Unless, you have a very large area to fill and need the extra sensitivity that comes with towers.
And also, it's usually the bookshelf in the line that has the best sound quality from having a more rigid cabinet. This can provide better imaging and clarity.
People usually keep buying the towers because they can't believe that bigger isn't better, are stuck in the past, or for bragging rights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,282 Posts
I don't think a bookshelf with sub can be equal to a bigger floor stander.
That's because it's better than a floorstander.

Particularly for movies, you need something to handle more power, a bookshelf just won't cut it.
No you don't, and yes it will - my current bookshelves + sub say otherwise.

You really think people are that stupid to keep buying floor standers where all you need to do is pay 1/3 to buy the bookshelf and get a sub and be done with.
The people who are constantly told that you need a floorstander or have it stuck in their heads that a pair of floorstanders on their own will outperform a very good pair of bookshelf speakers + a sub would keep buying floorstanders.

You really think a bookshelf can give you the wall shaking volume for tv and movies.....I am not talking about low frequency, I am just talking about the loudness of the sound........a 4" to 6" little speaker?
A) You don't need wall-shaking volume for TV and movies. If you need the volume to be that loud to hear anything, you need to go get a hearing test. B) Bookshelf speakers get plenty loud, and C) Some bookshelf speakers - like the Monitor Audio Silver 100 - have 8" drivers.

I keep my sub very low, even if I turn off the sub, it really doesn't make much difference.
I'm guessing that's because you either don't have your towers set as small or you have your crossover settings down to a point that renders the subwoofer moot. Having your sub turned down low probably doesn't help, either. If you set them as small with an 80Hz crossover, and the correct sub gain level you'd notice a difference.

With a bookshelf, you really have to work on the placement of the sub and speakers to get the right frequency crossover between the sub and the speakers.
No you don't. It's very easy to find a spot for your subwoofer. Also, you'd still need to figure that out for your towers if you don't have a sub - bass is bass, and it's not going to do you any good placing your towers in a massive null.

You sure you can optimize it? Or just get a floorstander and be done with it.
That's what room correction is for - whether you go through something like Audyssey or manually with a Umik + REW.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,185 Posts
I'll spend the money on a bigger speaker any time of the day than to insist on bookshelf, then spend money on room correction and a sub. OP's budget is $1200, I'll buy a floor stander any time of the day over bookshelf. Why? I have two book shelves as shown in the picture. One is Kef the other is Monitor Audio Silver series. I walked the mile to say this. That's the reason I just bought another pair of floor stander lately.

I sure would not waste money on room correction with the limited budget. For music, you don't even need to buy a sub, just put all the money into one good pair of used floor stander and you'll get quite high quality speakers that DON'T need room correction and sub. What is the point of insisting on a bookshelf and have to waste money to cover the deficiency?

Those bookshelves speakers in the picture are only for me to use as fuse when I first bring up a new amp I designed and built. I don't want to blow my real speakers.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
I'll spend the money on a bigger speaker any time of the day than to insist on bookshelf, then spend money on room correction and a sub. OP's budget is $1200, I'll buy a floor stander any time of the day over bookshelf. Why? I have two book shelves as shown in the picture. One is Kef the other is Monitor Audio Silver series. I walked the mile to say this. That's the reason I just bought another pair of floor stander lately.

I sure would not waste money on room correction with the limited budget. For music, you don't even need to buy a sub, just put all the money into one good pair of used floor stander and you'll get quite high quality speakers that DON'T need room correction and sub. What is the point of insisting on a bookshelf and have to waste money to cover the deficiency?

Those bookshelves speakers in the picture are only for me to use as fuse when I first bring up a new amp I designed and built. I don't want to blow my real speakers.
It's not wasting money on room correction with a limited budget.
Room correction and room treatments can be the biggest improvement in sound quality you can make.
Why buy bookshelf speakers and have to waste money on a sub to cover the deficiency?
Because the bass that I get from my calibrated, 1000 watts rms, dsp controlled, sealed 12" sub will destroy your towers for powerful, clear, and articulate bass.
You really need to go hear a properly calibrated system and hear the room correction being turned off and on, it'll be a huge eye opener for you. You'll really regret not hearing the difference sooner.
 
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Top