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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My reciever can do 7.1 (onkyo 805) - But not enough sources have 7.1 and my room is limited in placement.


Basically I am stuck haveing to put my rears (paradigm studio 20's) on stands to the rear and close to the seating position. To offset them localizing I was thinking of adding a lower level pair of ADP's (di-polar speakers) and placing them higher on the wall in the rear. Basically making a 5.1 but having the rears each have 2 speakers so its a 5.1 with 7 speakers.


First, is this a decent idea?


Second do I need 2 external stereo amps or can it be done with one set being powered directly by the receiever and the second being done by an external amp?
 

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If you're room limits you to 5.1 due to size than do 5.1. Depending on how close to the back of the room you sit determines whether dipoles or monopoles would be better, IMHO.


I only do a 5.1 system with direct radiating speakers and prefer it over di-poles. You can try both kinds of speakers and use what sounds best to you. It seems like di-poles would be a good choice for you. Shame though, as the 20s are awesome speakers.



In your hypothetical example, I don't think it would be a good idea to put a set of speakers above another set. The processing isn't set up for that. If you did it though you would need at least one outboard amp, otherwise the "2nd" set of sides would be powered by the surround rear amps.


Secondly, how would you calibrate a sytem like that? The outboard amp would need to have independent level controls to first match the volume of the other side speakers. Then let your auto set-up function take it from there. Sounds like a hassle to me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher /forum/post/15509193


My reciever can do 7.1 (onkyo 805) - But not enough sources have 7.1 and my room is limited in placement.


Basically I am stuck haveing to put my rears (paradigm studio 20's) on stands to the rear and close to the seating position. To offset them localizing I was thinking of adding a lower level pair of ADP's (di-polar speakers) and placing them higher on the wall in the rear. Basically making a 5.1 but having the rears each have 2 speakers so its a 5.1 with 7 speakers.


First, is this a decent idea?


Second do I need 2 external stereo amps or can it be done with one set being powered directly by the receiever and the second being done by an external amp?

First of all, let's get the terminology straight. The surround speakers in a 5.1 setup should not be called "rears", particularly for the purposes of this discussion. They are simply "surrounds" or "side surrounds". "Side surrounds" is an almost necessary terminology when discussing 7.1 (or the "5.1 with 4 surround speakers" you are proposing, even).


If you are going to use 7 speakers, then why not try and use them in a "7.1" setup? Not a "5.1 with 4 surround speakers" setup. Your logic is not entirely sound. The whole reason people add a 6th and 7th channel is to accomplish almost exactly what you are seeking; a more expansive and enveloping surround soundstage. Now, if a 7.1 setup is not really feasible for you, and you are seeking a more diffuse 5.1 soundstage, then maybe you just need to use dipole/bipoles for your 2 surround speakers. However, that would not be MY solution. If it were me, I would definitely use the 20s for my surround speakers in a 5.1 setup.


Do you have some diagrams of your room posted in another thread (I seem to remember that you might)? If not, can you provide something? That would be helpful. If you are dead set on using 7 speakers, and based upon the needs you are describing, I would recommend just spreading your side surrounds as wide as possible, even if they ARE to the rear and placing the other 2 speakers you are proposing closer together and if possible, further to the rear. Perhaps even right next to one another in the center of the rear. Be aware that many people with 7.1 setups use dipole/bipole speakers as their side surrounds, though, with direct radiators as the rears.


And why would you need ANY external amps? Your receiver is equipped for 7 channels of amplification. If you want the same exact info to be sent to the side surround and rear surround speakers when listening to 5.1 material, this is easily doable. But why? I would be tempted to at the very least TRY to apply DPLIIx to 5.1 material with the setup you are proposing just to see what it sounds like.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I do have a picture but it is a little inaccurate.


The place I have the right back speaker (surround I guess) is above the bed in the diagram but I have not put it there because I am scared to build a shelf for it. Instead it is next to the bed leaving just 4 or so feat between the speakers and the listening area.


Would I benefit more from getting a single Dipole and hanging it higher and finding some way to run 6.1?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher /forum/post/15510054


I do have a picture but it is a little inaccurate.


The place I have the right back speaker (surround I guess) is above the bed in the diagram but I have not put it there because I am scared to build a shelf for it. Instead it is next to the bed leaving just 4 or so feat between the speakers and the listening area.

I don't understand. So, what is wrong with the diagram is that the right surround speaker is actually symmetrically placed relative to the left surround speaker and main listening position? What do you mean by "........leaving just 4 or so feat between the speakers and the listening area"?


Your room and placement is just not going to be ideal. Not much you can do about that. So, given what you have to work with, try and place the surround speakers in the rear so that they are equidistant from a line drawn straight back from your main listening position to the back wall. You can place the right one assymetrically, further away from that midpoint, to widen the soundstage, but it seems your bed is an issue. But your receiver's speaker distance and level calibration will be able to compensate for the different distances and acoustics if you do this. The surround field will be a bit lopsided, but you may not notice it too much.


But, no matter what, your setup WILL be a compromise. What you want to do is use the BEST compromise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher /forum/post/15510054


Would I benefit more from getting a single Dipole and hanging it higher and finding some way to run 6.1?

Probably not. Not with the "side surrounds" located that far rearward in the first place.


Have you even tried the 5.1 setup yet or not? That would be the first thing to do. See what you think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes i would like to place it a bit further out but i need to decide if i can build shelves for the speakers or not. They are a good size and hard to put up especially considering they are said to perform better further from a wall.


Maybe I can point the left "surround" into a difusor on the wall?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher /forum/post/15510517


Yes i would like to place it a bit further out but i need to decide if i can build shelves for the speakers or not. They are a good size and hard to put up especially considering they are said to perform better further from a wall.

You may have to place them near a wall. That's just your situation. Not much you can do about it. If you want to leave the speakers on stands, I really do not understand what the problem is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher /forum/post/15510517


Maybe I can point the left "surround" into a difusor on the wall?

Why? You seem to think that you need diffuse sound. You don't. You have direct radiating speakers. Use them as such. If you do not want to point them at your listening spot, then point them directly at the opposite wall (where your TV is).



I still do not see what you are concerned about. And have you tried this proposed setup or not?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No I am trying to find either a stand or some way to build a shelf but saw the other thread and it seems like everyone thinks having them close behind you is a pretty bad idea.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher /forum/post/15511236


................it seems like everyone thinks having them close behind you is a pretty bad idea.

What do you mean by this? Close to one another? Or close to your listening spot? Either way, it is all relative. The speakers 20' behind you and 5' apart is different from 5' behind you and 5' apart.


How far apart are your front speakers? How far is the distance from your primary listening spot to your back wall? Why can you not simply place the surround speakers on stands, directly opposite your front speakers, at the same distance apart, and pointed directly at them? I don't see what the issue is.
 
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