Adding a 2nd hard drive
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I didn't experiment too much with it (because doing the upgrade from Canada is a real pain) but last time I upgraded I did try quickly to swap the cables for a cable with 2 IDE connectors and tried to see if it would recognize both and that didn't seem to work. The drive controller probably doesn't support 2 drives.
Like I said, I didn't spend too much time and effort so could be wrong but it doesn't look like it supports 2 drives. Also according to current info, the XBox also supports only one drive so that would be consistent.
Let us know if you find otherwise,
Mike
Like I said, I didn't spend too much time and effort so could be wrong but it doesn't look like it supports 2 drives. Also according to current info, the XBox also supports only one drive so that would be consistent.
Let us know if you find otherwise,
Mike
No, utv will only support one drive. Tivo S1 will support two drives. I have modified my utv, with a removeable HD tray, so that I can slide in a second drive when the first one is full of archived shows, but it was a real hassle (had to download the full software to setup the second drive), so this is not a practical mod for most people.
I haven't looked to see if the drive controller would support two drives per se, it probably does but first we'd have to rewrite the software driver + we don't even understand the windowsCE filesystem on utv yet. Less than a handful of people are actively working on utv, so not much is going to happen esp. compared to say tivo community (a great avs forum) where thousands of tivo enthuasists work together to enhance their tivos. I was trying to better understand the utv rom to work towards things such as dual drives, but despite posts on half a dozen forums, no one with any disassembly experience was willing to help on utv, so I have shelved that effort for now.
I haven't looked to see if the drive controller would support two drives per se, it probably does but first we'd have to rewrite the software driver + we don't even understand the windowsCE filesystem on utv yet. Less than a handful of people are actively working on utv, so not much is going to happen esp. compared to say tivo community (a great avs forum) where thousands of tivo enthuasists work together to enhance their tivos. I was trying to better understand the utv rom to work towards things such as dual drives, but despite posts on half a dozen forums, no one with any disassembly experience was willing to help on utv, so I have shelved that effort for now.
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And this works?? Not the fact that you switched to another drive....but that you then could switch back to the first drive and retain your 'archived material'.
I would expect that the original drive's material would no longer we available to you once you've 'married' the second drive to the UTV. Going back to the first drive and 're-marrying' that drive ought to wipe the drive clean. But I may be wrong.
Please clarify.
Regards,
SteveK
| I have modified my utv, with a removeable HD tray, so that I can slide in a second drive when the first one is full of archived shows, but it was a real hassle |
I would expect that the original drive's material would no longer we available to you once you've 'married' the second drive to the UTV. Going back to the first drive and 're-marrying' that drive ought to wipe the drive clean. But I may be wrong.
Please clarify.
Regards,
SteveK
yes, it does work. i can switch between drives and the content is still accessible on both
drives. however, it was not really a practical thing to do, as i warned in my post. i think that
the drive password generated by the system is probably consistent and static for a specific
set of receiver + HD.. and so as long as the HD is being reinstalled into the same receiver,
remains accessible.
i should say though, that because i did not want to risk losing all of my sopranos shows on the
original drive that i did mirror the eeprom via a multiplexer chip (this could have also been done
by saving the image and reflashing each time the drive was swapped), just in case the current
password was stored and referenced there. this probably wasn't necessary but i didn't want
to risk losing the shows on drive 1 and so was overly cautious. i could study the eeprom
contents and try to find out if that step was necessary but would prefer to accomplish the
same thing via understanding the rom function.
drives. however, it was not really a practical thing to do, as i warned in my post. i think that
the drive password generated by the system is probably consistent and static for a specific
set of receiver + HD.. and so as long as the HD is being reinstalled into the same receiver,
remains accessible.
i should say though, that because i did not want to risk losing all of my sopranos shows on the
original drive that i did mirror the eeprom via a multiplexer chip (this could have also been done
by saving the image and reflashing each time the drive was swapped), just in case the current
password was stored and referenced there. this probably wasn't necessary but i didn't want
to risk losing the shows on drive 1 and so was overly cautious. i could study the eeprom
contents and try to find out if that step was necessary but would prefer to accomplish the
same thing via understanding the rom function.
someone could easily test whether the eeprom step is necessary if their are willing to risk
having their drive wiped.. just upgrade your hard drive.. then unplug the utv, replace the
original drive, start it up and see if the first drive remains accessible. if you backup the
contents of your eeprom before trying this, you will not have to re-download the drive
software even in the worst case (just reflash the eeprom instead).
having their drive wiped.. just upgrade your hard drive.. then unplug the utv, replace the
original drive, start it up and see if the first drive remains accessible. if you backup the
contents of your eeprom before trying this, you will not have to re-download the drive
software even in the worst case (just reflash the eeprom instead).
I thought that after upgrading, if you put the old drive back into the UTV, it would immediately be reformatted (I did this but unplugged the data cable in order to re-use the drive in my PC). Are you saying that it doesn’t actually erase what was previously stored on it, so that after it downloads the O/S, that all the previously recorded shows on that drive are still intact?
- RODNEY
- RODNEY
no, your shows would be lost if the drive is reformatted. i am saying that if you restore the original
drive AND eprom the original drive can be put back into the system after your upgrade and still
be accessible. there is a question of whether the eeprom step is necessary.. if you know for certain
that the original drive is reformatted when put back into the system, then it is a necessary step.
have you tried this?.. or have you just heard somewhere that the original drive may be
reformatted if put back into the receiver?
drive AND eprom the original drive can be put back into the system after your upgrade and still
be accessible. there is a question of whether the eeprom step is necessary.. if you know for certain
that the original drive is reformatted when put back into the system, then it is a necessary step.
have you tried this?.. or have you just heard somewhere that the original drive may be
reformatted if put back into the receiver?
Yes, I have tried this. After installing a new 120GB drive, when I put the original 40GB back in, the UTV immediately went into a format. Of course I used the Noobie trick of unplugging the cable to let it finish w/o setting a new password. My guess is that the disk drive password would have to be recoded in the UTV EEPROM in order to swap drives w/o causing a reformat.
- RODNEY
- RODNEY
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So, the actual answer is NO, it does not work just to mod a UTV with a removeable HD tray and you're able to swap HDs. The "real hassle" you mentioned in your original post was the need to copy the eeprom and swap that, as well.
Just want to clarify the actual mods to give everyone the full picture.
Regards,
SteveK
| I have modified my utv, with a removeable HD tray, so that I can slide in a second drive when the first one is full of archived shows, but it was a real hassle |
| And this works?? |
| yes, it does work.......i should say though......that i did mirror the eeprom via a multiplexer chip |
Just want to clarify the actual mods to give everyone the full picture.
Regards,
SteveK
the actual answer is YES.
i don't want to get into a long semantical argument over this.. i never claimed it was easy or
practical, but it certainly does work. once the mod is done, if i want to swap drives, i simply
unplug the receiver, pull out the current drive tray, slide in drive#2, flip a switch (to switch
to eeprom#2), plug the receiver in and watch tv - exactly what i claimed. if that seems like it
is more trouble than it is worth, then by all means don't try it. i, think it is pretty slick
though and was well worth doing.
i don't want to get into a long semantical argument over this.. i never claimed it was easy or
practical, but it certainly does work. once the mod is done, if i want to swap drives, i simply
unplug the receiver, pull out the current drive tray, slide in drive#2, flip a switch (to switch
to eeprom#2), plug the receiver in and watch tv - exactly what i claimed. if that seems like it
is more trouble than it is worth, then by all means don't try it. i, think it is pretty slick
though and was well worth doing.
Just because the origional drive was unlocked, does not mean it was formatted. Unlocking the drive and formatting the drive are two different things. Did anyone verify the drive was wiped before setting it up on their PC? It's possible the data was still there, just not accessable on the PC. It would then be wiped when the drive is partitioned and reformatted in the PC.
There is a possible scenerio here that makes it possible to do a drive swap without messing with the EEprom:
1) There is a possibility UTV only uses one password. That password is encoded when a drive that has never been in the UTV is inserted. This would explain why the drive is reformatted when put in the first time and reformatted if it has been reused in a PC.
2) Because there may be only one password, swapping drives that have been used only in a UTV may be possible. The only requirement is that the software be downloaded for each new drive.
3) If that is the case, once you have two or more drives set up, you should, in theory, be able to swap them as you wish without losing the data.
To test this, someone needs to record some programs, try doing the drive swap, record some programs, then swapping the orgional drive back in (without have done the trick of pulling the IDE cable) and see if the data is still there. Then try swapping back. If this scenerio holds, it should work. In this case, you could conceivably have unlimited drive storage.
Even if the drive is not immediately accessable and the software is downloaded again, it is possible the shows may still be there as the file partition may still be recognized and no formatting may take place. Until someone directly swaps the drive, then swaps it back there is no way to know for sure if swapping the EEprom is necessary. Pulling the IDE cable on the origional drive to unlock it may make the password unreadable by the UTV, which is why it can't just be put right back in and accessed. If someone does this and the software downloads again, check to be certain there are no shows on the drive before assuming the drive has been wiped.
There is a possible scenerio here that makes it possible to do a drive swap without messing with the EEprom:
1) There is a possibility UTV only uses one password. That password is encoded when a drive that has never been in the UTV is inserted. This would explain why the drive is reformatted when put in the first time and reformatted if it has been reused in a PC.
2) Because there may be only one password, swapping drives that have been used only in a UTV may be possible. The only requirement is that the software be downloaded for each new drive.
3) If that is the case, once you have two or more drives set up, you should, in theory, be able to swap them as you wish without losing the data.
To test this, someone needs to record some programs, try doing the drive swap, record some programs, then swapping the orgional drive back in (without have done the trick of pulling the IDE cable) and see if the data is still there. Then try swapping back. If this scenerio holds, it should work. In this case, you could conceivably have unlimited drive storage.
Even if the drive is not immediately accessable and the software is downloaded again, it is possible the shows may still be there as the file partition may still be recognized and no formatting may take place. Until someone directly swaps the drive, then swaps it back there is no way to know for sure if swapping the EEprom is necessary. Pulling the IDE cable on the origional drive to unlock it may make the password unreadable by the UTV, which is why it can't just be put right back in and accessed. If someone does this and the software downloads again, check to be certain there are no shows on the drive before assuming the drive has been wiped.
iredato,
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...uh....maybe not in so many words, but yes you did. I'm not looking for a p$ssing match on this, but by your own words in your first post....
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...sounds pretty easy. There's no mention of eproms or senior proms. 
Only after some folks (myself included) questioned whether it (using a removeable HD tray to swap drives) worked did you start explaining about swapping eproms. That's fine. I agree with you that it is pretty neat.
Just realize that for many readers on this forum, just upgrading a disk drive is traumatic enough. Let alone having to pull chips, etc.
I appreciate that now you've set the record straight on what was involved to make such a disk swap possible.
Regards,
SteveK
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| i never claimed it was easy |
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| I have modified my utv, with a removeable HD tray, so that I can slide in a second drive when the first one is full of archived shows, but it was a real hassle (had to download the full software to setup the second drive), so this is not a practical mod for most people. |
Only after some folks (myself included) questioned whether it (using a removeable HD tray to swap drives) worked did you start explaining about swapping eproms. That's fine. I agree with you that it is pretty neat.
Just realize that for many readers on this forum, just upgrading a disk drive is traumatic enough. Let alone having to pull chips, etc.
I appreciate that now you've set the record straight on what was involved to make such a disk swap possible.
Regards,
SteveK
The question is, though, whether it's necessary. If it turns out you can just swap UTV formatted hard drives in and out of the same unit without blowing out what's on them or having to mess around with the boards, that would be huge for everyone. It would be nice to explore this further. The only way to really find out its to try it. Someone who is about to perform the upgrade and doesn't mind possibly downloading the software 3 times (once for the new drive, possibly twice for the old drive, and possibly 3 times if the stuff on the old drive gets wiped and you swap back to the new drive.). If this works, this could be a great thing for all users.
NetworkTV - maybe someone will try and let us know for certain. The risk, as you say is that they may have to download the OS up to 3 or 4 times to know for sure. What would be even better is if we studied the rom memory to see if the unique identifier that marries a given drive can be bypassed.. if so, then we could swap any number of drives in and out of a given receiver. And setting up a drive would become easier too - you wouldn't need to do the long OS download.. copying the OS files from the old drive to the new one would be sufficient prep for it to work in an ultimate receiver. Anyone care to study this.. preferably someone who is not intimidated by binhex data + has disassembly skills...?
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