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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have tried to find any information from fellow posters regarding adding a dedicated subwoofer to center channel but no joy! I have a very large room (~6,000 sq ft) and my center is Aerial Acoustics CC3 (sealed, 3 way, -2db at 55hz). I am exploring to run it full range as front L/R with either hsu uls15 or rythmik F15. I already have a dedicated sub for front L/R and 2 subs for LFE... (cant have enough of those!). Just wanted to check if anybody has tried that...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18218548

I have tried to find any information from fellow posters regarding adding a dedicated subwoofer to center channel but no joy! I have a very large room (~6,000 sq ft) and my center is Aerial Acoustics CC3 (sealed, 3 way, -2db at 55hz). I am exploring to run it full range as front L/R with either hsu uls15 or rythmik F15. I already have a dedicated sub for front L/R and 2 subs for LFE... (cant have enough of those!). Just wanted to check if anybody has tried that...

I built a passive sub/center channel speaker which I run full range and I absolutely love. Brings a wide and full sound stage to movies and music.


However if you are looking for a center/powered sub combo already built then try out Def Tech:

http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...ctid=C/L/R3000

http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...ctid=C/L/R2500

http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...ctid=C/L/R2300

http://www.definitivetech.com/Produc...ctid=C/L/R2002
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18218548

I have tried to find any information from fellow posters regarding adding a dedicated subwoofer to center channel but no joy! I have a very large room (~6,000 sq ft) and my center is Aerial Acoustics CC3 (sealed, 3 way, -2db at 55hz). I am exploring to run it full range as front L/R with either hsu uls15 or rythmik F15. I already have a dedicated sub for front L/R and 2 subs for LFE... (cant have enough of those!). Just wanted to check if anybody has tried that...

What reciever do you have or what is the reciever EQ name. like MCACC, Audyssey, or Audyssey Pro?


Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have Onkyo Pro SC 885...I wanted to see if others have experimented with running center true full range,


I am aware of and had demo def tech but consider Aerial Acoustic Center to be of very high SQ, but obviously does not go into lower octaves


Z
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
How does your passive center/sub deliver during movies...specifically the difference if you crossover at 60HZ or run full range,


much appreciated
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18219951


I have Onkyo Pro SC 885...I wanted to see if others have experimented with running center true full range,


I am aware of and had demo def tech but consider Aerial Acoustic Center to be of very high SQ, but obviously does not go into lower octaves


Z

I have a Integra DHC 9.9 and I had the Audyssey Pro done on it for my room. Pro's final setup said full for my mains and surrounds with 100 hz on the center. I have 4 subs, 3 MFW-15's and 1 Conquest. I changed my speaker settings to THX 80 hz crossovers and left the center at 100. Sub(s) were at 120 hz by Pro and I left them at that. By setting a high crossover of 80 or more on speakers allows the Pro bass management to really do it's job. The cost of having Pro done is well worth it and the audio is fantastic. In fact, I have ordered the Pro kit from Audyssey and will get the key for Pro from my installer.


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18219962


How does your passive center/sub deliver during movies...specifically the difference if you crossover at 60HZ or run full range,


much appreciated

Not sure if you are talking to me or not. But my passive sub/center really hits hard during movies when I run it at full range. It can hit down to 30hz and really fills in the gap between my left and right speakers with a wall of sound and deep bass that shakes my couch at half power.


The feeling of your center speaker alone shaking your couch during War of the Worlds is awesome at best. If I cross it over at say 60hz it tames the bass and emphasizses the highs which can be overshadowed by the bass at times during high volume levels on full range.
 

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Many years ago, when I upgraded my LFE sub from a Mirage BPS-150 to a Mirage BPS-400, I tried the 150 on my centre channel and it sounded more focused than with the bass spread to the mains or the LFE sub. I have a separate amp for the centre, so it was a simple matter of putting the sub in the line level (using the filters and crossover in the sub) from the processor to the amp. If it is not too much trouble, try it, it cannot hurt, maybe it will be better or possibly not. Probably depends as much on positioning and the room itself......


P.E.H.
 

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No one else has asked why? so I will



Why are wanting to do this?


All content below your Center Speaker properly crossover point which is around 80Hz can just go through the main subs. Lower frequencies are not localized so its 100% okay to have them run through the regular sub out.


There will be zero advantage to you trying to run a full range CC. I believe actually a more inaccurate way since you probably want to stick the sub with the CC which could be a very bad place response wise in your room for the
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 /forum/post/18220035


I have a Integra DHC 9.9 and I had the Audyssey Pro done on it for my room. Pro's final setup said full for my mains and surrounds with 100 hz on the center. I have 4 subs, 3 MFW-15's and 1 Conquest. I changed my speaker settings to THX 80 hz crossovers and left the center at 100. Sub(s) were at 120 hz by Pro and I left them at that. By setting a high crossover of 80 or more on speakers allows the Pro bass management to really do it's job. The cost of having Pro done is well worth it and the audio is fantastic. In fact, I have ordered the Pro kit from Audyssey and will get the key for Pro from my installer.


Bill

a fellow conquest owner
..This sounds counter intuitive to what I have experienced in mine and other friends setups but is an interesting approach! I assume this is despite your regular speakers ability to play successfully to 60hz or below?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts /forum/post/18220065


Not sure if you are talking to me or not. But my passive sub/center really hits hard during movies when I run it at full range. It can hit down to 30hz and really fills in the gap between my left and right speakers with a wall of sound and deep bass that shakes my couch at half power.


The feeling of your center speaker alone shaking your couch during War of the Worlds is awesome at best. If I cross it over at say 60hz it tames the bass and emphasizses the highs which can be overshadowed by the bass at times during high volume levels on full range.

As I understand it from your experience, one has to be cautious in level matching the sub and center, otherwise it enhances the sound envelope...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/18220660


No one else has asked why? so I will



Why are wanting to do this?


All content below your Center Speaker properly crossover point which is around 80Hz can just go through the main subs. Lower frequencies are not localized so its 100% okay to have them run through the regular sub out.


There will be zero advantage to you trying to run a full range CC. I believe actually a more inaccurate way since you probably want to stick the sub with the CC which could be a very bad place response wise in your room for the


No problem
Well..started with as just the subs for sub out, doubling them up made a huge difference in room response and slam. For two channel listening (like to do it with the front two speakers only), added a dedicated sub (initially connected through Proceed PRE, used HT bypass for movies) and made sound even better for movies too...palpable difference (I usually do blind testing with my friends since perhaps I want to listen to improvements
)...I really feel that the amount of info center has it may benefit substantially by a sub...and I can place it anywhere in room but prefer on front wall somehwere and it wont be under center channel!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by phannon /forum/post/18220589


Many years ago, when I upgraded my LFE sub from a Mirage BPS-150 to a Mirage BPS-400, I tried the 150 on my centre channel and it sounded more focused than with the bass spread to the mains or the LFE sub. I have a separate amp for the centre, so it was a simple matter of putting the sub in the line level (using the filters and crossover in the sub) from the processor to the amp. If it is not too much trouble, try it, it cannot hurt, maybe it will be better or possibly not. Probably depends as much on positioning and the room itself......


P.E.H.

Agreed, I am going to order one and see how it blends! I have a few spots to place it and always use SMS to fine tune the phase, crossover and volume for a flatter response before running Audessy (SMS is just used in setup to provide live feedback to tinkering, for EQ its Audessy only)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18220695


a fellow conquest owner
..This sounds counter intuitive to what I have experienced in mine and other friends setups but is an interesting approach! I assume this is despite your regular speakers ability to play successfully to 60hz or below?

Running full vs with a 80 hz crossover on mains along wiht the surrounds, the audio is the same for me. The only reason to run with high crossover is to let Audyssey Pro to have more bass to manage. Pro does an excellent job of bass management. I have used a SMS-1 and/or Anti Mode 8033 with Audyssey and it caused too much loss of clarity on the bass. Audyssey Pro does a much better job with bass as far as I am concerned. The only recommendation that Chris at Aydyssey would make is the Aydyssey Sub EQ if you wanted or needed more sub EQ outside of what Pro does. They both basically do the same thing but Sub EQ only does it for bass and nothing else where Pro covers it all.


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18219962


How does your passive center/sub deliver during movies...specifically the difference if you crossover at 60HZ or run full range,


much appreciated

I have centre set to small xo at 60-70hz depending what month it is ... and there is sub associated with centre channel.


You can tell the difference in a lot of movies where there is freq below teh centre's capability.


Here the arguement maybe that if speaker is set to small and xo' at a certain point then the receiver should re-route it to the sub.


In my case that scenario did not produce good results so i stuck with centre + centre sub.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18220728


No problem
Well..started with as just the subs for sub out, doubling them up made a huge difference in room response and slam. For two channel listening (like to do it with the front two speakers only), added a dedicated sub (initially connected through Proceed PRE, used HT bypass for movies) and made sound even better for movies too...palpable difference (I usually do blind testing with my friends since perhaps I want to listen to improvements
)...I really feel that the amount of info center has it may benefit substantially by a sub...and I can place it anywhere in room but prefer on front wall somehwere and it wont be under center channel!

Only very few high-end processors can separate bass on a channel level. It is usually not necessary and beneficial to do what you are planning. LFE is not localizable, thus it does not matter where it stems from, be it center or right or left.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie /forum/post/18223166


Only very few high-end processors can separate bass on a channel level. It is usually not necessary and beneficial to do what you are planning. LFE is not localizable, thus it does not matter where it stems from, be it center or right or left.

Could you clarify your comment about separate bass on a channel level? If you run channel full range, any decent ssp will not be dumping all info of that channel down to the last HZ? or full range speakers (in my case center +sub) is an inferior option to a central low freq summing sub with center channel at 80? I believe the whole idea of bass management was developed to account for lack of speakers being able to do full range...for the back 4 spkrs, its ok but front three is where most of the fun is and in my opinion do benefit a lot from being full range with a more effortless sound stage (my experience is with front L/R full range),


Again, interested to hear your opinion on this...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18220708


As I understand it from your experience, one has to be cautious in level matching the sub and center, otherwise it enhances the sound envelope...

I apologize for not describing my experience better in my previous post. What I was trying to say is that when running my center/sub combo on full range the mid bass can interfere with dialogue at higher volume levels during action sequences and especially during music heavy on the low end.


However when I cross the speaker over at say 60hz the sound stage is still wide and deep. But also much clearer without the midbass slam during action sequences drowning out or overpowering the dialogue at high listening levels. Closer to the best of both worlds without giving up the wide, detailed sound stage that a large center such as this can bring.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18223377


I believe the whole idea of bass management was developed to account for lack of speakers being able to do full range...

This is not true. Bass management makes sense because it allows the listener to place the woofers where they perform optimally for a specific room with a specific listening position. The listener can place the satellites where they need to be for directional and imaging effects while designing the low-frequency portion of the system separately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmaximus /forum/post/18223377


for the back 4 spkrs, its ok but front three is where most of the fun is and in my opinion do benefit a lot from being full range with a more effortless sound stage (my experience is with front L/R full range)

Bass management is not only OK for the front 3, but is also advisable. This is the only way one can get good bass in a room.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie /forum/post/18227246


This is not true. Bass management makes sense because it allows the listener to place the woofers where they perform optimally for a specific room with a specific listening position. The listener can place the satellites where they need to be for directional and imaging effects while designing the low-frequency portion of the system separately.




Bass management is not only OK for the front 3, but is also advisable. This is the only way one can get good bass in a room.

Guess we disagree on both points then! I am sure you have read how the whole story of movie sound encoding goes and its translation for home theater...no argument on the separate LFE but see it very differently than you re low freq info per channel and best way to reproduce. Again, on your last point, its more a function of your speakers, room interactions etc...highly doubt the ONLY way
 
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