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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all.


I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on an SVS box sub (PB12-Plus) which will run me $1450 shipped. I don't just go around dropping that much money lightly so I wanted to double check with this community regarding that purchase and make sure there isn't something else out there I've missed or if I'm "overbuying" for my room and needs. Below are the details.


Room size: 2100 cubic feet

Use: Exclusively HT. No music listening at all

Type: Cylinders aren't an option. It has to be a box.

Listening Habits: It's movies and when I'm watching it's loud (not painfully loud but I hate straining to hear).


I'm open to researching other manufacturers as well.


Thanks in advance for your assistance.


Rick
 

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Questions:


Are subwoofer aesthetics important?

Are the overall box dimensions important?

Is buying a finished sub a requirement, or could you put together a DIY sub (or kit sub)?


If any/all of those are "no"s - you might be able to purchase a lot more subwoofer for the money. SVS makes great products (in fact, bought one as a gift for my brother), but consensus opinion these days seems to be that they're not the high-value proposition they once were, given the current competition.


For equal or nearly equal money, you could have the following finished subs:


Two Epik Empires

Chase 18.T (dual 18's)

Two eD A7s-450's

eD A7-450


Or, you could purchase and finish the eD Dual 13Av.2 DIY Kit for around $1300 all-in, which is the kit version of the A7s-650, a ~$2k sub.


Or... if you have woodworking skills/tools and could do a complete DIY project, you can build an absolute monster for $1,500.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by a/v HD fan /forum/post/19518469


Questions:


Are subwoofer aesthetics important?

Are the overall box dimensions important?

Is buying a finished sub a requirement, or could you put together a DIY sub (or kit sub)?


If any/all of those are "no"s - you might be able to purchase a lot more subwoofer for the money. SVS makes great products (in fact, bought one as a gift for my brother), but consensus opinion these days seems to be that they're not the high-value proposition they once were, given the current competition.


For equal or nearly equal money, you could have the following finished subs:


Two Epik Empires

Chase 18.T (dual 18's)

Two eD A7s-450's

eD A7-450


Or, you could purchase and finish the eD Dual 13Av.2 DIY Kit for around $1300 all-in, which is the kit version of the A7s-650, a ~$2k sub.


Or... if you have woodworking skills/tools and could do a complete DIY project, you can build an absolute monster for $1,500.

+1. I completely agree.
 

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If you answered no to any of his questions you may also want to consider a 2011 JTR Captivator and a EP2500/EP4000 amp. According to the estimated output figures it would outperform most of the options listed.


Another option you should consider is the HSU VTF-15H. I was ready to purchase one until I did more research on the Captivator.


Daniel
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dachness /forum/post/19518533


If you answered no to any of his questions you may also want to consider a 2011 JTR Captivator and a EP2500/EP4000 amp. According to the estimated output figures it would outperform most of the options listed.


Another option you should consider is the HSU VTF-15H. I was ready to purchase one until I did more research on the Captivator.


Daniel

Agree - those are also good examples that would likely outperform the original SVS sub. Would a single Captivator/EP4k combo outperform dual colocated 18's from CHT or eD though? Or colocated Empires?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by a/v HD fan /forum/post/19518589


Agree - those are also good examples that would likely outperform the original SVS sub. Would a single Captivator/EP4k combo outperform dual colocated 18's from CHT or eD though? Or colocated Empires?

Here are the numbers keep in mind that HSU's numbers are CEA burst, which yield higher output than continuous testing.


Based on the numbers a Captivator would have greater output than the 18.T at 31.5hz and below. Above 31.5hz the 18.T takes the lead. I have not compared the others directly. Haven't seen their numbers.


I got estimated
 

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If your room is essentially sealed then the 2100cu-ft room volume makes it relatively easy to fill within your price range and you need not obsess so much about squeezing out the maximum SPL per dollar. Instead you might wish to consider things from a SQ standpoint... in which case you might also then consider a Rythmik or perhaps two less costly subs to help smooth out any room anomalies, etc. If you are intending to drop $1400+ on a sub solution then I agree it does require some serious thought and consideration and this thread is a good start. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
a/v HD Fan...


Aesthetics aren't a huge issue because it's in a dedicated HT room. The speakers are black and relatively plain as is the existing sub. I'm not handy enough to jump off the cliff on a full blown DIY project. I'd be more worried about the functionality than the looks.


A dual configuration is interesting. I've never done that before. Do the subs "daisy chain" off each other or would I have to run another dedicated sub line to the 2nd sub?


I will start investigating the Captivator and 18.T options.
 

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Is the room sealed? If so I would really look hard at the 18.T option. More than enough spl with the benefits of dual subs.


My thing with the captivator is it needs lots of power and is twice the price of VTF-15H when it comes amplified. Those numbers are going to drop off with a lesser amp.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick1969 /forum/post/19519359


a/v HD Fan...


Aesthetics aren't a huge issue because it's in a dedicated HT room. The speakers are black and relatively plain as is the existing sub. I'm not handy enough to jump off the cliff on a full blown DIY project. I'd be more worried about the functionality than the looks.


A dual configuration is interesting. I've never done that before. Do the subs "daisy chain" off each other or would I have to run another dedicated sub line to the 2nd sub?


I will start investigating the Captivator and 18.T options.

So, finished sub, but aesthetics and/or size aren't primary concerns - roger that. If you go duals, you have a few good options from elemental designs, Epik, and Chase Home Theater that still fall within your original budget, or extremely near it (eD prices include shipping, CHT and Epik prices don't, so make sure you factor that in). The most obvious from each firm being the A7s-450, 18.T, and Empire, respectively. If you go with a single sub, you can get a beefier alternative from eD (e.g. A7-450), or the CHT 18.2, JTR Captivator (have to buy an outboard amp separately to stay within budget), or the new Hsu 15H.


All are well-thought-of manufacturers, CHT being the "newest" kid on that block, and all also have collected their fair share of followers. Honestly, I think you'd probably be pleased with the bass quality and output from any of these firms' products mentioned.


As for "daisy-chaining" the subs - yes, some work that way if you want, but it's also common to use an RCA y-splitter in your cable run to split the signal that way.


Good luck - keep us posted on how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have done more research. I guess I do have some limitations in size. The A7-450 is way too big. Can't be any taller than about 26". The submersive takes me about $600 (after shipping) over my initial price point. I'd love to see some sort of comparison between the SVS, Dual Epik Empires and Chase 18.T. I'd tend more to an all in one set up so the passive Capivator isn't making me all warm and fuzzy inside.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick1969 /forum/post/19522518


I have done more research. I guess I do have some limitations in size. The A7-450 is way too big. Can't be any taller than about 26". The submersive takes me about $600 (after shipping) over my initial price point. I'd love to see some sort of comparison between the SVS, Dual Epik Empires and Chase 18.T. I'd tend more to an all in one set up so the passive Capivator isn't making me all warm and fuzzy inside.

Okay, so size (height) matters. Keep in mind that you can position most any sub on its side, if its rectangular, if height is an issue. So an A7-450 could be configured to only be 25" high. Still, throwing out the A7-450, leaves the following:


From eD, you can fit dual A7s-450's or dual A5-350's upright, even with your height requirement, depending on if you want ported or sealed subs. $1600 for the former, $1430 for the latter, with shipping. Sealed 18's with 2600 watts, vs. ported 15's with 1000 watts. Pro's and con's there, but most (I think) would recommend the sealed subs if you can EQ them.


Chase - 18.T, $1396 plus shipping. Dual sealed 18's, 1000 watts.


Epik - Dual Empires, $1499 plus shipping. Quad 15's (dual-opposed), 1200 watts (3000w burst).


Honestly, it's going to be hard to get a scientific comparison of almost any of these subs head-to-head. Audioholics is having a subwoofer shootout soon, but I don't know if it includes any of the above-referenced subs.


Most, if not all, of the ID speaker/sub manufacturers will let you do an in-home trial and if you're not satisfied, return the product(s) for a full refund. The only caveat is that you eat the return shipping in most cases, which is not insignificant - subwoofers are big and they are heavy; shipping a couple of them is going to run a couple hundred bucks. Honestly, I think you'd be happy with any of those subs - so whoever you pick to "buy and try them first," is probably who you'll end up with and be 100% satisfied. Til you want to go quads.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Awesome info. It leads me to the next thing. Sealed vs Ported. You mentioned if I can EQ a sealed sub. I don't have a dedicated EQ for a sub. I'm sure there is another thread on this forum that would help me with this. Any help here would be great.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick1969 /forum/post/19523461


Awesome info. It leads me to the next thing. Sealed vs Ported. You mentioned if I can EQ a sealed sub. I don't have a dedicated EQ for a sub. I'm sure there is another thread on this forum that would help me with this. Any help here would be great.

Ported tend to give greater output above the tuning frequency of the port, but roll off faster below tuning. Sealed give a more gradual roll-off, but tend to need more driver area or power/wattage to reach similar levels of output.


All subs tend to benefit from EQ (all speakers, actually). If your receiver has auto-room-correction software, it *might* correct your sub properly also. An outboard EQ can assist further, if needed. See this thread for some additional info and advice:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1028464
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The suggestions in this thread of one versus two subs have me asking...one sub or two. And if two...why? What's the benefit in a 2100 cubic foot room?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick1969 /forum/post/0


The suggestions in this thread of one versus two subs have me asking...one sub or two. And if two...why? What's the benefit in a 2100 cubic foot room?

Any size room benefits from multiple subs. Evens out response.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick1969 /forum/post/19519906


Does anyone have a pic of the 18.T? Chase doesn't have an image online.

A CS-18.T has two of the cabinets with the stand alone amplifier.

 

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Discussion Starter #20
Rijax...so there are two of those cabinets or there are two cabinets in that one enclosure? Sorry for being ignorant.
 
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