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Advice for amp selection for 2x Marty Cube Subs

1494 Views 18 Replies 3 Participants Last post by johnson636, Jun 19, 2021

DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · Jun 18, 2021

Would a NX3000d Behringer amp be powerful enough to run 2x PA460 drivers? Or would I be better off getting a nx6000d?

Sorry, amps and power go over my head.

Behringer NX3000D Power Amplifier 3000W with DSP - DJ City
PA460-8 18" Pro Woofer 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio
Behringer NX6000D Power Amplifier 6000W with DSP - DJ City

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

brettus

· #2 · Jun 18, 2021 (Edited)

They recommend the 3000dsp (I think) with the VBSS builds.
Just as an FYI I bought my PA-460's through Parts Express on Ebay Aus going back to mid year 2018 and for both delivered were $425 Aus. Unsure if there will be any stock for a while as they keep getting pushed back but if price holds relatively true that's $480ish Aus through ebay for the two or $640 Aus through Parts Express directly...
I would have thought that WES Australia would stock them but only UM18-22's ($637 each now) seem to be the most potent 18" unless you want the 21" Kraken at $874.50! Again, they (UM18-22) are a fair bit cheaper through WES than through the Loudspeaker kit even though I believe they are the same entity...
I'm in North Qld so prices may have been dearer for me as opposed to a major city.

Reactions: 1

DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 18, 2021

brettus said:
They recommend the 3000dsp (I think) with the VBSS builds.
Just as an FYI I bought my PA-460's through Parts Express on Ebay Aus going back to mid year 2018 and for both delivered were $425 Aus. Unsure if there will be any stock for a while as they keep getting pushed back but if price holds relatively true that's $480ish Aus through ebay for the two or $640 Aus through Parts Express directly...
I would have thought that WES Australia would stock them but only UM18-22's ($637 each now) seem to be the most potent 18" unless you want the 21" Kraken at $874.50! Again, they (UM18-22) are a fair bit cheaper through WES than through the Loudspeaker kit even though I believe they are the same entity...
I'm in North Qld so prices may have been dearer for me as opposed to a major city.

theloudspeakerkit.com.au has the PA460s in stock atm for $400.

PA460-8 18" Pro Woofer 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio

PA460-8 18" Pro Woofer 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio - Dayton Audio PA Series Pro Woofers are a great upgrade for musical instrument or sound reinforcement cabinets, and also excel in custom-built speaker systems.

www.theloudspeakerkit.com

www.theloudspeakerkit.com

I'm probably gonna grab two of them because they're local, cheap and give good performance apparently. But I'm just unsure whether the NU3000d is suitable to power 2x of them or not.

johnson636

· #4 · Jun 18, 2021

theloudspeakerkit.com.au has the PA460s in stock atm for $400.

$400 for a PA460

The PA460 is a wonderful driver and well worth the $99 we pay over here in the US, but $400...No way! I'd recommend looking for another driver for that price. Can you source the Lavoce driver where you are?

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DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 18, 2021

johnson636 said:
$400 for a PA460

The PA460 is a wonderful driver and well worth the $99 we pay over here in the US, but $400...No way! I'd recommend looking for another driver for that price. Can you source the Lavoce driver where you are?

$400 AUD. Thats about $240 usd.
we have tax and import fees so its about right.
This is getting a bit off topic though. Nobody has been able to give me an answer to my original question yet with on which amp is suitable.

johnson636

· #6 · Jun 18, 2021

Either of the amps you're asking about will work. IMO, the NX6000D is way overkill for two PA460. Heck, the NX3000D is overkill for only 2 PA460s. Do you plan on adding more in the future? If you use WINISD to model the PA460 using the volume of the marty cube, it will shed more light on the combo's capabilities.

DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 18, 2021

johnson636 said:
Either of the amps you're asking about will work. IMO, the NX6000D is way overkill for two PA460. Heck, the NX3000D is overkill for only 2 PA460s. Do you plan on adding more in the future? If you use WINISD to model the PA460 using the volume of the marty cube, it will shed more light on the combo's capabilities.

thanks for that! Nah 2x subs is going to be perfectly suitable for the room size.
I Havent modelled them in WinIsd. i was under the impression that the marty cubes have alread been tried and tested, and I could just build them off the cut list provided.

johnson636

· #8 · Jun 18, 2021 (Edited)

Seems like you have a bit of reading to do. You shouldn't just take an enclosure, slap a diver in it and apply power. Especially a ported enclosure. You need to ensure the amount of power you plan to supply to the driver doesn't damage it. You ensure that by modeling the driver using the volume of the enclosure and the power you intend to use. If the model exceeds the driver's xmax, you keep decreasing the power until you are within the driver's limits.

Reactions: 1

DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 19, 2021 (Edited)

johnson636 said:
Seems like you have a bit of reading to do. You shouldn't just take an enclosure, slap a diver in it and apply power. Especially a ported enclosure. You need to ensure the amount of power you plan to supply to the driver doesn't damage it. You ensure that by modeling the driver using the volume of the enclosure and the power you intend to use. If the model exceeds the driver's xmax, you keep decreasing the power until you are within the driver's limits.

ive done 275 pages of reading over a month. 😉
Not sure if you know anything about those subs or not but that’s what they were designed for from everything I’ve read. For people like me to choose a driver, build the box and not worry about the design work. Theres a whole forum of people using specific drivers in the marty cube. The Pa460 being one of them… unless of course my understanding is incorrect!
The forum is a little older now so the amp models used are discontinued but they still have a dsp and you can limit power on the newer models afaik.

johnson636

· #10 · Jun 19, 2021

DYL3MMA said:
The Pa460 being one of them… unless of course my understanding is incorrect!

Yes, it is. I'm not sure where you read the Marty subs were designed around the PA460. As I've stated, you can use the PA460 in the marty cube, or any ported enclosure for that matter, but the only way to know how much power to apply to the driver in a given enclosure without damage is to model it. You must take into consideration volume and tune of the enclosure in order to apply the appropriate amount of power to the driver. Example - Initially, the Full Marty (In which I've built two) and Mini Marty were designed around, but not limited to, the UM18-22 and SI HT18. Now you can use the PA460 in that enclosure, but you better not send the same power to it as you would the UM18 and HT18. How much power can you safely apply to the PA460 in the Full and mini Marty? Well, you'd use winisd to model it

You may want to have a look in the VBSS thread. All the leg work has already been done. Oh, by the way, I have 8 vbss's

DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jun 19, 2021

johnson636 said:
Yes, it is. I'm not sure where you read the Marty subs were designed around the PA460. As I've stated, you can use the PA460 in the marty cube, or any ported enclosure for that matter, but the only way to know how much power to apply to the driver in a given enclosure without damage is to model it. You must take into consideration volume and tune of the enclosure in order to apply the appropriate amount of power to the driver. Example - Initially, the Full Marty (In which I've built two) and Mini Marty were designed around, but not limited to, the UM18-22 and SI HT18. Now you can use the PA460 in that enclosure, but you better not send the same power to it as you would the UM18 and HT18. How much power can you safely apply to the PA460 in the Full and mini Marty? Well, you'd use winisd to model it You may want to have a look in the VBSS thread. All the leg work has already been done. Oh, by the way, I have 8 vbss's

oh I see! Ok im happy to be corrected. So we’re not talking about the tune, we’re talking strictly about power limits here.
ill download WINISP and have a play with values.

johnson636

· #12 · Jun 19, 2021

Here's a great tutorial on WINISD.

johnson636

· #13 · Jun 19, 2021

Again, if you'd rather build an enclosure that has been designed and tested with the PA460, then the VBSS is the way to go. It has a fantastic thread discussing the different tunes to choose, dsp files, and modeling graphs illustrating how the driver will behave with a given amount of applied power.

DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jun 19, 2021

johnson636 said:
Again, if you'd rather build an enclosure that has been designed and tested with the PA460, then the VBSS is the way to go. It has a fantastic thread discussing the different tunes to choose, dsp files, and modeling graphs illustrating how the driver will behave with a given amount of applied power.

Sure! Does the VBSS have a cube option thats a similar size? im not locked into the Mcube yet, but ive modelled it in my 3D software for a cut list. I can tweak it to suit tho.

brettus

· #15 · Jun 19, 2021

DYL3MMA said:
theloudspeakerkit.com.au has the PA460s in stock atm for $400.

PA460-8 18" Pro Woofer 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio

PA460-8 18" Pro Woofer 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio - Dayton Audio PA Series Pro Woofers are a great upgrade for musical instrument or sound reinforcement cabinets, and also excel in custom-built speaker systems.

www.theloudspeakerkit.com

I'm probably gonna grab two of them because they're local, cheap and give good performance apparently. But I'm just unsure whether the NU3000d is suitable to power 2x of them or not.

Yes $400 each from the loudspeaker kit... As I said in my original reply, I paid $425 Aus delivered for 2 of them and not each.
If you have to build them now then pay the extra $400, otherwise I'd wait but either way read up on ported enclosure building and room correction.
To answer your last question as long as you keep the internal volume the same (port volume also) regardless of its shape and it will be fine.

Reactions: 1

DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jun 19, 2021

brettus said:
Yes $400 each from the loudspeaker kit... As I said in my original reply, I paid $425 Aus delivered for 2 of them and not each.
If you have to build them now then pay the extra $400, otherwise I'd wait but either way read up on ported enclosure building and room correction.
To answer your last question as long as you keep the internal volume the same (port volume also) regardless of its shape and it will be fine.

2018 is 3 years ago though… might be waiting a while (or forever) for them to return to those prices, no?…
thanks for the info though, Ill keep that in mind when I do the cab design.

johnson636

· #17 · Jun 19, 2021

DYL3MMA said:
Sure! Does the VBSS have a cube option thats a similar size? im not locked into the Mcube yet, but ive modelled it in my 3D software for a cut list. I can tweak it to suit tho.

Seems as though we may be using different definitions for "Model". Around here, to "model" a driver and enclosure means using a software, such as WINSID, to determine optimal volume of an enclosure, tune of an enclosure, maximum power to send to a driver while staying within xmax/excursion limits, port velocity, etc. Also, names like Marty, VBSS, Hammer, are just catchy names given to the enclosure by whomever designed it...they're still just ported enclosures. The design is based on specific dimensions, volume and tune (in the case of a ported sub). If you desire to use the driver the designer used for modeling the enclosure, but you need different dimensions to fit your needs, no biggie. Change the dimensions to fit and keep the volume the same

A driver doesn't care about dimensions and names, as long as it can be mounted and safely operated in the enclosure, you and the driver will be happy

DYL3MMA

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jun 19, 2021

johnson636 said:
Seems as though we may be using different definitions for "Model". Around here, to "model" a driver and enclosure means using a software, such as WINSID, to determine optimal volume of an enclosure, tune of an enclosure, maximum power to send to a driver while staying within xmax/excursion limits, port velocity, etc. Also, names like Marty, VBSS, Hammer, are just catchy names given to the enclosure by whomever designed it...they're still just ported enclosures. The design is based on specific dimensions, volume and tune (in the case of a ported sub). If you desire to use the driver the designer used for modeling the enclosure, but you need different dimensions to fit your needs, no biggie. Change the dimensions to fit and keep the volume the same A driver doesn't care about dimensions and names, as long as it can be mounted and safely operated in the enclosure, you and the driver will be happy

no i understand the difference. i was just pointing out that Ive modelled the physical box in my 3d software to create a cut list but haven’t actually gone ahead with anything yet

Reactions: 1

johnson636

· #19 · Jun 19, 2021

Don't forget to post lots of pics

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