[joemannnnn]

Hey Guys,
I find myself unable to decide which new receiver to get, a Denon x41000 or the older 4520. I can get them both new at the same price. So the reason I'm here is to discuss potential speaker setups, and maybe that then helps lead to a receiver choice.

I currently run a 5.1 setup. I have a pair of Pioneer FS52 towers and the matching center, all modded by Dennis Murphy. My surrounds are (2) HTD in ceiling 6.5" speakers. My subwoofer will be a Rythmik FV15hp, as soon as it arrives. My room is in the basement, and is a theater room of sorts. It's 15'x17', and I have a 130" projector screen. Sectional couch in one corner, recliner in the other.

Now, if I go with the Atmos receiver (x4100), I guess all I would need is some surrounds added to my rear walls. Any thoughts on a surround that is smaller in size and could be mounted on the wall? My couch and recliner are right in either back corner, so rear stands are out, they would need to go on the wall, and not be too large so that people sitting in the corners aren't having to watch themselves.

The other option is to go with the 4520, and try a 7.1 setup of some sort. And that's where I need some advice. I'm not sure with my current setup where I'd get the best use of (2) more speakers. Looking forward to some input on setup ideas, and even thoughts on a 7.1 setup vs an Atmos 5.1.2 setup

 

[Transmaniacon]

First off, there is no need to spend $1200 on a receiver unless you need the features it offers. It doesn't sound like you are planning to add in-ceiling ATMOS speakers, and there isn't really any content to make use of them anyway. Additionally, if your couch and recliner are on the back wall, then you don't have space for rear surrounds. If you can move your seating a couple feet off the wall, then you would have space for some them. I think though mixing in-ceiling surrounds, with on-wall rear surrounds would be awkward sounding. You either need to stand pat with your current in-ceiling speakers, or go with 4 wall-mounted surrounds.

If you want to make an upgrade, I would get new speakers.

An ATMOS setup adds the .4, meaning 4 ceiling speakers. So an ATMOS system would be a 5.1.4 system, for example. Just to clarify.

 

[joemannnnn]

First off, there is no need to spend $1200 on a receiver unless you need the features it offers. It doesn't sound like you are planning to add in-ceiling ATMOS speakers, and there isn't really any content to make use of them anyway. Additionally, if your couch and recliner are on the back wall, then you don't have space for rear surrounds. If you can move your seating a couple feet off the wall, then you would have space for some them. I think though mixing in-ceiling surrounds, with on-wall rear surrounds would be awkward sounding. You either need to stand pat with your current in-ceiling speakers, or go with 4 wall-mounted surrounds.

If you want to make an upgrade, I would get new speakers.

An ATMOS setup adds the .4, meaning 4 ceiling speakers. So an ATMOS system would be a 5.1.4 system, for example. Just to clarify.

One of the main reasons for looking at these receivers is the jump to Audyssey XT32. After doing some atmos research, I did see there indeed is an option for 5.1.2, with the (2) ceiling speakers directly above the seating position, which I have with the HTD's. The issue is getting surrounds in, I think a smaller speaker like the NHT superzero could be corner mounted and not interfere too much. But yes, adding surrounds is a bit tricky with my setup. So is there any benefit to front highs or wides?

 

[Transmaniacon]

One of the main reasons for looking at these receivers is the jump to Audyssey XT32. After doing some atmos research, I did see there indeed is an option for 5.1.2, with the (2) ceiling speakers directly above the seating position, which I have with the HTD's. The issue is getting surrounds in, I think a smaller speaker like the NHT superzero could be corner mounted and not interfere too much. But yes, adding surrounds is a bit tricky with my setup. So is there any benefit to front highs or wides?

Yes XT32 is a good feature, but the X4000 is significantly cheaper if you don't need ATMOS. People seem to really like wides, as they make a larger sound stage, but you could experiment with different options.

The Superzero's would be a great choice, I own a pair and they are great. FYI, they are selling the last of their B-stock SZ 2.0s for $49.99 right now, this is a stupid low price they would work well for surrounds.

 

[joemannnnn]

Yes XT32 is a good feature, but the X4000 is significantly cheaper if you don't need ATMOS. People seem to really like wides, as they make a larger sound stage, but you could experiment with different options.

The Superzero's would be a great choice, I own a pair and they are great. FYI, they are selling the last of their B-stock SZ 2.0s for $49.99 right now, this is a stupid low price they would work well for surrounds.

So I was convinced I was going to buy a refurb x4000 for $660 or maybe splurge on a new one for $799. I guess I may still consider that, but the 4520 seems like such a good deal at $850 refurb or $999 new.

I like the idea of experimenting with a 7.1, and also adding a zone for my outside patio. The 4520 could handle all that, with the x4000, I'd need an amp, and then the cost is basically the same. The only alternative would be forget 7.1, and just do the other zone and go x4000

I too have a pair of Superzeros, and really do like them. I've seen the b stock and it's taken everything I have to not buy 2 or 3 of them. I have no where else to put speakers! I'm honestly thinking about putting a couple in the garage with my old receiver after I buy a new receiver. I do worry that they may be quite blemished, and not nice enough for inside

 

[Transmaniacon]

So I was convinced I was going to buy a refurb x4000 for $660 or maybe splurge on a new one for $799. I guess I may still consider that, but the 4520 seems like such a good deal at $850 refurb or $999 new.

I like the idea of experimenting with a 7.1, and also adding a zone for my outside patio. The 4520 could handle all that, with the x4000, I'd need an amp, and then the cost is basically the same. The only alternative would be forget 7.1, and just do the other zone and go x4000

I too have a pair of Superzeros, and really do like them. I've seen the b stock and it's taken everything I have to not buy 2 or 3 of them. I have no where else to put speakers! I'm honestly thinking about putting a couple in the garage with my old receiver after I buy a new receiver. I do worry that they may be quite blemished, and not nice enough for inside

If you need the extra channels, then the 4520 makes sense.

I bought some B-stock SZs back when they were $60 each, and they are in fantastic shape. The only issue is the back panel isn't 100% flush with the side panel, so theres about a 1/16" overhand on one side. It's not something you notice unless you look for it, and at half price compared to new, I can live with that.

 

[zieglj01]

You can always use touch up paint

 

[joemannnnn]

If you need the extra channels, then the 4520 makes sense.

I bought some B-stock SZs back when they were $60 each, and they are in fantastic shape. The only issue is the back panel isn't 100% flush with the side panel, so theres about a 1/16" overhand on one side. It's not something you notice unless you look for it, and at half price compared to new, I can live with that.

I can't find the email from a few weeks ago when NHT announced the B stock sale, but I remember them not being too high on the looks of these. This is what the web says:
"We found some of these hiding in the warehouse. Perfect sonics but all have some cabinet flaws. No leaks or dents, but many have scratches or other laminate problems. Not so pretty, but they sound terrific."

I may still buy 2 and throw them in the garage if they are rough looking. If they're nice, perhaps I can work them into a 7.1 setup inside. My only other options is some energy micros that I have. They are tiny and work for surrounds I guess, but maybe I'll try and sell those on craigslist and get some superzeros.

The other speakers I'd love to try are the HVL-1's, but they are larger. Those would almost need to be a replacement for my Pioneer front 3. They are too nice for the garage, too big for corner surrounds, and too big for my living room mantle that I have the superzeros on. I just don't know that the HVL-1 will be that much nicer than my modded Pioneer towers.

 

[Transmaniacon]

Yeah I would say that is a lateral move, from the modded Pioneers to the Wavecrests.

 

[zieglj01]

Since you have the AA Pioneer modded speakers - a good option for
the surrounds is the SuperZero's

New in stock on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/NHT-SuperZero...&qid=1426707579&sr=8-1&keywords=nht+superzero

 

[Kini62]

You should really look into Transmaniacon's suggestion to move the seating off the back wall and out of the corners. Being on the back wall AND in corners you are going to have issues with bass, most likely booming and bloated sounding as the corners are areas where bass tends to "accumulate".

That and moving the seating up a few feet will much better suit the use of rear surrounds.

 

[joemannnnn]

After a lot of thinking, I'm starting to lean towards the older 4520. While I agree with moving my sectional up a few feet, out of the corner, not sure that the surrounds will be my best bet since I have the HTD's in the ceiling now as surrounds. I don't love it, but it works.

How do people like front high? I could potentially put some superzeros up high, on either side of the projector screen, that would be easy, and no need to try and find a way to run new speaker wire to the back of the room.

Also, I did bite the bullet and order (2) b stock for $49 ea. As I mentioned before, I already have (2) superzeros in a living room 2.1 setup, and I do really like them. If the b-stock are decent looking, I'm sure theyd be fine in a front high position.

Any concerns mixing a superzero front high with the pioneers as the front (3)?

 

[Transmaniacon]

After a lot of thinking, I'm starting to lean towards the older 4520. While I agree with moving my sectional up a few feet, out of the corner, not sure that the surrounds will be my best bet since I have the HTD's in the ceiling now as surrounds. I don't love it, but it works.

How do people like front high? I could potentially put some superzeros up high, on either side of the projector screen, that would be easy, and no need to try and find a way to run new speaker wire to the back of the room.

Also, I did bite the bullet and order (2) b stock for $49 ea. As I mentioned before, I already have (2) superzeros in a living room 2.1 setup, and I do really like them. If the b-stock are decent looking, I'm sure theyd be fine in a front high position.

Any concerns mixing a superzero front high with the pioneers as the front (3)?

I think they will be fine for surround duty. Aside from a little overhang on the bottom back edge of my speakers, they are in mint condition. The finish is blemish free and I actually thought they sent new speakers until I found that little edge when moving them one day. I'd imagine up high in your room any imperfection will be difficult to notice.

 

[joemannnnn]

Thanks for the input so far everyone. NHT already shipped the Bstock superzeros yesterday.

So now I need to try and firm up my receiver choice and speaker setup. Do I go with the better deal, 4520 and a 7.1 setup, or the x4100 and the 5.1.2 atmos setup? I'd appreciate any input. If I went 4520, where would you recommend putting 2 speakers? My surrounds are in the ceiling, does that hurt utilizing 2 in the front high? Do I just start moving towards atmos and put the superzeros in the back corners and use my ceiling speakers for atmos?

 

[Transmaniacon]

ATMOS is a ways off, there are only a small handful of movies that even support it, and that's if it even takes off. Most consumers won't be able to utilize it anyway. I would go with the X4000 personally, it has additional preouts for another zone, and a you can get a cheap two-channel amp if you need it.