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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

I have an older Klipsch 5.1 HDT-500 speaker setup. Last year I was given a pair of Cerwin Vega XLS-215 speakers that I'm now using for the front in a 7.1 configuration

 

I'm looking to upgrade my setup.....

 

This is what I'm thinking:

 

Receiver: Denon x4000

Fronts (2): Cerwin Vega XLS-215

Surrounds (4): Pioneer SP-BS22

Center (1): Pioneer SP-C22

Subs (2): Dayton Audio SUB-1200

 

My main use for the setup is like 70/30 music/movies. This is in a pretty big finished basement with drywall walls and ceiling and porcelain tile floor.

 

The only things I still need to buy are the surrounds, center, and subs... and as you can see my budget isn't that high so please keep that in mind.

 

From amazon and accessories4less, the pricing is about:

 

Surrounds (4): Pioneer SP-BS22 - $86/pair

Center (1): Pioneer SP-C22 - $66/each

Subs (2): Dayton Audio SUB-1200 - $125/each

 
 
Opinions on anything I should do differently?
 

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Do you already own the X4000? If not then there is no need so spend $1200 on a receiver when you are pairing it with budget speakers. +1 to matching your front speakers, this is important for imaging. The Pioneers are fine for surrounds, but just note they are rear ported so they need some space behind them. You may want to consider a front ported speaker like the Infinity Primus P143/153.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Thanks for the replies.

 

I don't own the x4000 yet. I have a pretty short checklist of features that I want out of my receiver and the x4000 (along with others) meets the list. But, what stands out for me is two features: Audyssey XT32 and full pre-outs. I've read conflicting info about if I need to push more power to those XLS-215s so having the pre-outs is a little bit of safety for me since I can just add an amp if I want to test it out. Some people say that there's no reason to since they are so sensitive, but others say that they added an amp and it totally changed the speaker for the better.

 

I've read glowing reviews about Audyssey XT32 and am very interested in it. I can probably find a good receiver for half the price that meets my other needs, but it won't have Audyssey XT32.

 

Also... if I timbre match the fronts and center, is there a benefit for me to timbre match the surrounds as well? I have no personal preference in choosing the Pio or the CV surrounds, I'm just going off of the advice I receive and reviews I read. The only thing I'm not flexible with is replacing the front XLS-215s because they were a meaningful gift to me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhernandez  /t/1524016/advice-on-budget-surrounds-needed#post_24522544


Thanks for the replies.


I don't own the x4000 yet. I have a pretty short checklist of features that I want out of my receiver and the x4000 (along with others) meets the list. But, what stands out for me is two features: Audyssey XT32 and full pre-outs. I've read conflicting info about if I need to push more power to those XLS-215s so having the pre-outs is a little bit of safety for me since I can just add an amp if I want to test it out. Some people say that there's no reason to since they are so sensitive, but others say that they added an amp and it totally changed the speaker for the better.


I've read glowing reviews about Audyssey XT32 and am very interested in it. I can probably find a good receiver for half the price that meets my other needs, but it won't have Audyssey XT32.


Also... if I timbre match the fronts and center, is there a benefit for me to timbre match the surrounds as well? I have no personal preference in choosing the Pio or the CV surrounds, I'm just going off of the advice I receive and reviews I read. The only thing I'm not flexible with is replacing the front XLS-215s because they were a meaningful gift to me.

In my opinion, you would get better sound quality from upgrading your subs and going with an X2000 instead. It still has MultEQ XT, the second best to XT32, and while EQ does help a good bit in room, upgrading speakers makes a much bigger difference. I would get the matching center to the CVs, this is not really an option if you want proper imaging. And I would spend half as much on the receiver and go with a better sub. Those Daytons are good budget options, but you need something to keep up with the CVs, I would recommend a Power Sound Audio XV15. The better sub will make a huge difference over a better EQ. If you must get pre-outs, take a look at the Marantz SR5008, it has the same version of Audyssey and comes with pre-outs. You can find all these options refurbished at www.accessories4less.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Thank you for the follow-up. 

 

Dropping down from the x4000 to the SR5008 is acceptable for me in terms of feature set. The biggest difference that will impact me is the Audyssey XT vs Audyssey XT32, and there is a $270 savings with shipping included. Is the XT32 really that non-beneficial for me?

 

The Power Sound Audio XV15 looks pretty awesome but is a $550 jump from the pair of Dayton SUB-1200s.

 

Sorry for the questions, just looking to do this the best I can with my limited funds.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhernandez  /t/1524016/advice-on-budget-surrounds-needed#post_24522899


Thank you for the follow-up. 


Dropping down from the x4000 to the SR5008 is acceptable for me in terms of feature set. The biggest difference that will impact me is the Audyssey XT vs Audyssey XT32, and there is a $270 savings with shipping included. Is the XT32 really that non-beneficial for me?


The Power Sound Audio XV15 looks pretty awesome but is a $550 jump from the pair of Dayton SUB-1200s.


Sorry for the questions, just looking to do this the best I can with my limited funds.

I think you are just putting too much importance in the wrong areas. Receivers, just like electronics in general, change very rapidly. To me, you should buy what you need right now. If in the future you decide you need pre-outs, then just buy a new receiver, because there will be another dozen other improvements you get with the newest technology. You can't future proof this purchase, so buying things you may need at a later point means that money could be spent on things to benefit you now.


You have to look at it this way, you spend less for a lower version of Audyssey, but gain a much much better sub woofer. The overall sound is much better with the better sub, because spending the money on your speakers is where you see a change. I would be willing to bet it is pretty difficult for most people to discern between Audyssey MultEQ XT and XT32.


I would still recommend the Denon X2000, and then go with a better sub woofer. Keep in mind when it comes to power, you need double the power to see a 3dB increase. So you would need a 200 watt/ch amp to make your speakers only 3dB louder. I would wager you are maybe using 20 watts at most with those CVs, so you can see the amount of headroom you already have.


Just my $0.02
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhernandez  /t/1524016/advice-on-budget-surrounds-needed#post_24522899


Thank you for the follow-up. 


Dropping down from the x4000 to the SR5008 is acceptable for me in terms of feature set. The biggest difference that will impact me is the Audyssey XT vs Audyssey XT32, and there is a $270 savings with shipping included. Is the XT32 really that non-beneficial for me?


The Power Sound Audio XV15 looks pretty awesome but is a $550 jump from the pair of Dayton SUB-1200s.


Sorry for the questions, just looking to do this the best I can with my limited funds.
You are devoting way too much money to the AVR. Generally you only want to spend 25%-30% of your budget on receiver and the rest on speakers. Good audio performance comes from speakers not Receivers. Cheap speakers with an expensive receiver will still sound cheap. Just cause you have Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 it will not improve your cheapo speakers sound to be a million bucks
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That makes sense.


Assuming I upgrade the sub and choose a cheaper receiver.... Is it beneficial to spend as much as I can on a single sub or pick a cheaper one and get two?


This is a pretty big room... Approx 20x40, with the movie seating right in the middle. But the area where music will be primarily listened to from is basically along the back wall, 20ft from the front wall.


Also, will the CV center and surrounds be adequate or should I just get the CV center and choose different surrounds? I've read a lot of reviews on the Pioneer bs22s being great surrounds, and haven't found much on the CVs.


Please keep in mind that my current setup is a cheapo Klipsch 5.1 and the XLS-215 pair. So, it's far from optimal, but I enjoy it! I just want to enjoy it a little more.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhernandez  /t/1524016/advice-on-budget-surrounds-needed#post_24523969


That makes sense.


Assuming I upgrade the sub and choose a cheaper receiver.... Is it beneficial to spend as much as I can on a single sub or pick a cheaper one and get two?


This is a pretty big room... Approx 20x40, with the movie seating right in the middle. But the area where music will be primarily listened to from is basically along the back wall, 20ft from the front wall.


Also, will the CV center and surrounds be adequate or should I just get the CV center and choose different surrounds? I've read a lot of reviews on the Pioneer bs22s being great surrounds, and haven't found much on the CVs.


Please keep in mind that my current setup is a cheapo Klipsch 5.1 and the XLS-215 pair. So, it's far from optimal, but I enjoy it! I just want to enjoy it a little more.

You don't need to match the surrounds, the Pioneers will work fine and are affordable. The front three however is important to match. That is a very big room, you will likely need two capable subs to fill that space since subs need to pressurize the entire connected volume. You might benefit from locating the subs close to the seating position; what would be your budget for the subs after the BS22s and receiver?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhernandez  /t/1524016/advice-on-budget-surrounds-needed#post_24523969


That makes sense.


Assuming I upgrade the sub and choose a cheaper receiver.... Is it beneficial to spend as much as I can on a single sub or pick a cheaper one and get two?


This is a pretty big room... Approx 20x40, with the movie seating right in the middle. But the area where music will be primarily listened to from is basically along the back wall, 20ft from the front wall.


Also, will the CV center and surrounds be adequate or should I just get the CV center and choose different surrounds? I've read a lot of reviews on the Pioneer bs22s being great surrounds, and haven't found much on the CVs.


Please keep in mind that my current setup is a cheapo Klipsch 5.1 and the XLS-215 pair. So, it's far from optimal, but I enjoy it! I just want to enjoy it a little more.
First and foremost assuming you have 8ft ceilings, your room is 6400 cu. ft. That is HUGE!!! You will need a beefy subwoofer/subwoofers Cheaper subwoofers aren't really an option right now given your room size.


Minimumly right now I will say that for a Center Channel the only one you should get is the Cerwin Vega XLS-6c (as stated above). Matching the front 3 speakers is paramount importance with any home theater.


This is a new company with formal outside reviews but 2 of these for $660 might be a decent set-up Reaction Audio BPS 212 Powered Subwoofer .

Premier Acoustic PA-150 Subwoofers are occassionally sold as $300 per subwoofer and they are a great buy then, even if you got on for $400 it would. Now this won't have much output below 30hz but it will have some massive output above that.
 

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One option for you is to use your old Klipsch speakers as your surrounds for the time being. That will allow you to put more towards the center channel and a good sub (look at HSU, SVS, Rythmic). Take the advice you were given regarding spending less on the receiver. As soon as you get that Audyssey XT32, all set up and happy, a new, and way better version will come out! BESIDES, THE ABILITIES OF THESE DIGITAL ROOM "FIXERS" IS WAY OVERSOLD, IMO. Nothing will replace the advantages of good sub placement and a careful selection of crossover point, gain, and phase. Not to mention room treatments.


Frankly, I don't see any advantage to the Pio surrounds route. Spend the money elsewhere for now, and then replace the Klipsch with CVs when finances allow.
 

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You can also try the "phantom" center approach. I've been using it for a while and it is fine by me. The one key thing - your primary listening needs to be centered. If you are on the sides then I don't recommend.
 

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Last summer, I went from a pioneer 1020k receiver to a 1222k receiver, which was about double the MSRP. My speakers and sub stayed the same, so I was able to make a good comparison in sound. My take: exactly the same performance/sound for the speakers and sub I had. Granted, if I pushed the 1222k with my current speakers, it would probably hold up better because of the higher wattage, class D amp, but I think I would have been just as happy standing pat. Anyway, I also upgraded my sub to an SVS sub (pb-1000) last year, the difference in sound after that was jaw-dropping. I was blown away by the improved clarity and low-end. I liked it so much that I took advantage of SVS's one-year upgrade policy and now own a pb-2000. I highly recommend getting a sub from a good company. Like a previous post mentioned, SVS, HSU, Rythmik, or PSA are all great options.
 
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