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advice on colorimeter for newbie

7876 Views 49 Replies 19 Participants Last post by  ConnecTEDDD, 
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I have been a member of AVS forum for a while now, but I have to admit that the level of expertise on this Display Calibration board makes me more hesitant to post a newbie question that on most other boards on AVS Forum.


I've used a basic calibration disc before (I think it was THX) but have never had a full-blown calibration done. I've taken 10-point settings from CNET and the Forum to improve the picture of my LG 55LW5600.


In advance of purchasing a new higher-end LED/LCD late this year, I'm considering dipping my toe into taking my DIY home calibration to the next level using HCFR.


I've read through much of the information on Kal's site: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


And at least the entire section up to Part 8 (Advanced Color Management) seems like something I could manage.


So I think I want to take the plunge and get a colorimeter and I've read various posts here on the Display Calibration board (which can quickly be overwhelming for a newbie/amateur).


In particular, the comments regarding drift of colorimeters and the need to have them 'sent in for recalibration' have me concerned.


I want to purchase a colorimeter to use with HCFR 9 months from now when I have my new LED/LCD. I would like to learn and to practice by calibrating my LG 55LW5600. So my first question is: Is the drift that may occur over a 9 month period significant enough that I should hold off on buying a colorimeter until I have my new panel?


I might be interested to purchase a very low-end colorimeter to learn on fully expecting that as I bump into it's limitations, I'll step up to better equipment before my new panel arrives.

ULTRA-LOW-END: Can any of these be successfully used for a basic calibration with HCFR???


-Pantone Eye-One Display 2 ($50 used)


-Spyder3 TV ($79)


-Datacolor Spyder4Express S4X100 Display Calibration Device ($82)


-Colormunki Smile ($89)


LOW-END: Will these continue to be usable for basic calibration with HCFR over the course of 12-24 months or will they need to be recalibrated???


-Datacolor S4TV100 Spyder4TV HD for Calibrating Color on TV Display ($124)


-Calman C3 ($149)


-ColorMunki Display ($169)


PRO-SUMER: I will purchase a colorimeter of this class to calibrate my new TV at year-end. Kal says these drift over the course of a year and so should be calibrated yearly. How much does a colorimeter calibration cost?


-ColorMunki Display ($169) [For use only with HCFR, is this as good as the I!D3 below???]


X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro ($249)



I am basically debating between:


A) - Buy a 'disposable' ultra-low-end colorimeter now, use it to learn HCFR by practicing on my LG 55LW5600, then purchase a new ColorMunki Display or X-Rite Display 3 just after purchasing my new panel


B) - Buy an X-Rite Display 3 now, use it for 9 months learning to calibrate my LG 55LW5600, then have it recalibrated after purchasing my new panel.


C) - Buy an X-Rite Display 3 now and don't worry about the small inaccuracies introduced by drift over 9 months


D) - Hold off and do not buy anything until I have my new TV, then buy a 'fresh' X-Rite Display then...



Any advice for which of these plans will be better would be appreciated - it seems like anything I do will be better than using my eyes, and I am looking for the most cost-effective way to dip my toe in to the next level without yet being sure how much time and money I want to put into calibration going forward...


-fafrd
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If you are worried about drift and accuracy, then your best bet is a spectrometer such as the xrite eyeonepro (used on ebay for $250-400) or a brand new Colormunki Photo (price varies from $400-450). Now if you want to just dip your toe in, then the Colormunki display is as good as the i1Display Pro as far as accuracy, but can be a bit slower at some readings.


If I were to buy just one right now to just learn the ropes, I'd probably get either a Colormunki Display or a i1Display Pro, then if you enjoy the process and want to be sure of accuracy, you can always buy a spectrometer and use that to profile the colorimeter. I currently own an Xrite i1DisplayLT which was based on the i1Display2 as well as my Colormunki Photo. I currently just use the CM Photo for the entire calibration process and have had good success.
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I got a Colormunki display and got an awesome result using it and HCFR to calibrate my Samsung ES8000. As long as your paycheck doesn't depend on having a calibrated display, I think that this solution represents tremendous value for money.


If you don't want to learn HCFR though you will have to get a more expensive meter as the Colormunki Display only works with the useless xrite software, HCFR, and argyllcms.


As far as drift goes, I don't know if there is any information out there regarding drift rates of various meters. In any case if you are very concerned about it, you can either invest in a spectro as fairchild99 noted, or profile your meter against a spectrometer periodically (assuming you can find someone to lend you one)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376079


If you are worried about drift and accuracy, then your best bet is a spectrometer such as the xrite eyeonepro (used on ebay for $250-400) or a brand new Colormunki Photo (price varies from $400-450). Now if you want to just dip your toe in, then the Colormunki display is as good as the i1Display Pro as far as accuracy, but can be a bit slower at some readings.


If I were to buy just one right now to just learn the ropes, I'd probably get either a Colormunki Display or a i1Display Pro, then if you enjoy the process and want to be sure of accuracy, you can always buy a spectrometer and use that to profile the colorimeter. I currently own an Xrite i1DisplayLT which was based on the i1Display2 as well as my Colormunki Photo. I currently just use the CM Photo for the entire calibration process and have had good success.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The only reason I have any concern regarding drift is what I read on Kal's site: "Colorimeters can (and should) be periodically recalibrated to ensure they retain their initial accuracy. This eliminates the problems associated with exposure to the elements over time that affect all colorimeters. We recommend doing this yearly. "


I just don't understand how significant this drift can be and if a prosumer like me needs to be concerned about it (and also don't know the cost involved in sending back for recalibration).


I don't think I'm too concerned about speed and only plan to use HCFR, so the Colormunki Display sounds like it would be a good option. On the other hand the i1Display Pro is only another 50%/$70...


Any idea how significant the drift we are talking about it?


Thanks again,


-fafrd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376217


I got a Colormunki display and got an awesome result using it and HCFR to calibrate my Samsung ES8000. As long as your paycheck doesn't depend on having a calibrated display, I think that this solution represents tremendous value for money.


If you don't want to learn HCFR though you will have to get a more expensive meter as the Colormunki Display only works with the useless xrite software, HCFR, and argyllcms.


As far as drift goes, I don't know if there is any information out there regarding drift rates of various meters. In any case if you are very concerned about it, you can either invest in a spectro as fairchild99 noted, or profile your meter against a spectrometer periodically (assuming you can find someone to lend you one)
Click to expand...

No, paycheck does not depend on having a calibrated display...


And since I only plan on using HCFR, it sounds like Colonmunki Display may be the way to go.


How often do you recalibrate your ES8000? Do you do anything to check the accuracy of your Colormunki in terms of drift?


I'm not very concerned about drift except what I read on Kal's site. If using a ne-year-old Colormunki to calibrate an LED/LCD without calibrating the colorimeter first can result in visibly distorted image, I'd be concerned. If the result will in any case be an order of magnitude better than what you could do with your eyeballs, I would not be so concerned.


The problem with all of the information that is out there is that it is hard to find any scale - are we talking about drift over a year in the 0.1% range, the 1% range or the 10% range???


-fafrd


p.s. when did you first purchase your Colormunki Display and how long did it take you to master the basics?
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Where are you supposed to get your colorimeter re-calibrated? I just got a C3 meter as I am a newbie as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKACAL  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376396


Where are you supposed to get your colorimeter re-calibrated? I just got a C3 meter as I am a newbie as well.
Click to expand...

Zkacal,


what made you choose the C3 over some of the less expensive and more expensive options? Have you tried your first calibration yet?


-fafrd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376353


No, paycheck does not depend on having a calibrated display...


And since I only plan on using HCFR, it sounds like Colonmunki Display may be the way to go.


How often do you recalibrate your ES8000? Do you do anything to check the accuracy of your Colormunki in terms of drift?


I'm not very concerned about drift except what I read on Kal's site. If using a ne-year-old Colormunki to calibrate an LED/LCD without calibrating the colorimeter first can result in visibly distorted image, I'd be concerned. If the result will in any case be an order of magnitude better than what you could do with your eyeballs, I would not be so concerned.


The problem with all of the information that is out there is that it is hard to find any scale - are we talking about drift over a year in the 0.1% range, the 1% range or the 10% range???


-fafrd


p.s. when did you first purchase your Colormunki Display and how long did it take you to master the basics?
Click to expand...
I actually just recently rechecked the calibration linked in my signature below, which I posted in May 2013. The results were all basically the same 7 months later so I guess the meter hasn't drifted yet, or it hasn't drifted enough to make a significant difference (all results were within like 0.2 dE of the measurements I had previously posted). I got the colormunki in maybe march of last year? Overall I was coming from zero experience whatsoever regarding calibration, so there was a lot of trial and error and a lot of reading. I would estimate that I put in around 80-100hrs total, but I got pretty OCD about the whole thing. If I had to recalibrate my display now from scratch, knowing what I know about my specific display, I think it would take me maybe 1-2hrs to get a good calibration.


In terms of meter calibration versus setting up by eye, the difference is night and day. A properly calibrated TV looks absolutely stunning in comparison to what you can do by eye.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKACAL  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376396


Where are you supposed to get your colorimeter re-calibrated? I just got a C3 meter as I am a newbie as well.
Click to expand...

+1 I also have a C3 that I received with my Calman license.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376568



Zkacal,


what made you choose the C3 over some of the less expensive and more expensive options? Have you tried your first calibration yet?


-fafrd
Click to expand...
LOL, I knew I preferred the CalMAN software so I bought their beginners bundle that included the C3. I'm about to calibrate for the first time now. I use a swiffer broom to keep it from falling off the TV.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376592



+1 I also have a C3 that I received with my Calman license.
Click to expand...
I guess we can ask Spectra Cal tech support.
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Hwello


The cost of recalibrating or recertifying an inexpensive meter such as the C3 isn't feasible.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376577

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376353


when did you first purchase your Colormunki Display and how long did it take you to master the basics?
Click to expand...

I actually just recently rechecked the calibration linked in my signature below, which I posted in May 2013. The results were all basically the same 7 months later so I guess the meter hasn't drifted yet, or it hasn't drifted enough to make a significant difference (all results were within like 0.2 dE of the measurements I had previously posted). I got the colormunki in maybe march of last year? Overall I was coming from zero experience whatsoever regarding calibration, so there was a lot of trial and error and a lot of reading. I would estimate that I put in around 80-100hrs total, but I got pretty OCD about the whole thing. If I had to recalibrate my display now from scratch, knowing what I know about my specific display, I think it would take me maybe 1-2hrs to get a good calibration.


In terms of meter calibration versus setting up by eye, the difference is night and day. A properly calibrated TV looks absolutely stunning in comparison to what you can do by eye.
Click to expand...

That's very helpful, thanks. So it sounds like if I decide to go ahead with a Colormunki Display now and learn up on my existing LG 55LW5600, when I get my new LED/LCD near the end of the year, I should be too concerned that the Colormunki Display will have drifted so much as to result in a garbage calibration...


-fafrd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praz  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376728


Hwello


The cost of recalibrating or recertifying an inexpensive meter such as the C3 isn't feasible.
Click to expand...

Would that also apply to the Colorimunki Display or the D3? If they can be recalibrated, how is that done and how much does it cost?


thanks,


-fafrd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376739


Would that also apply to the Colorimunki Display or the D3? If they can be recalibrated, how is that done and how much does it cost?


thanks,


-fafrd
Click to expand...
the display pro, 3 is offered by CP,LS,CM an has the internal tables are fined tuned.

They could theoretically redo the tables if the precision drifts.

As far as price to check/redo the tables, I don't know. That would have to be a company policy.


As far as I know they do not support the colormunki meter.



HFCR and Argyll support the colormunki.
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I have not read much about the colormunki meter.

looks like a D3. cheaper priced. Not sure why.

I have read that the D3 is very stable and people with experience report

it has not drifted in over a year.

D3 is sealed and by all accounts accurate out of the box.


Colormunki is supported by HFCR and not a lot of time has passed since

it was added.


Instead of sending in low cost meters people get spectros or have a friend

check the accuracy with a spectro.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376833

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376739


Would that also apply to the Colorimunki Display or the D3? If they can be recalibrated, how is that done and how much does it cost?


thanks,


-fafrd
Click to expand...
the display pro, 3 is offered by CP,LS,CM an has the internal tables are fined tuned.

They could theoretically redo the tables if the precision drifts.

As far as price to check/redo the tables, I don't know. That would have to be a company policy.


As far as I know they do not support the colormunki meter.



HFCR and Argyll support the colormunki.
Click to expand...

OK, thanks. So if I understand correctly, the 'X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro' (want to make sure I have the product name correct - this is the Display Pro, 3, correct?) have internal correction tables that can be recalibrated to compensate for drift.


Who are CP, LS, CM and does this mean that the Display Pro, 3 has to be purchased through one of them?


And understand than the Colormunki can not be recalibrated by these vendors, but does the Colormunki have the same correction tables?


Is drift and this recalibration stuff something that a newbie just beginning into this stuff should be concerned about?


-fafrd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376883


I have not read much about the colormunki meter.

looks like a D3. cheaper priced. Not sure why.

I have read that the D3 is very stable and people with experience report

it has not drifted in over a year.

D3 is sealed and by all accounts accurate out of the box.


Colormunki is supported by HFCR and not a lot of time has passed since

it was added.


Instead of sending in low cost meters people get spectros or have a friend

check the accuracy with a spectro.
Click to expand...

OK, thanks. SO with a spectro you can at least check whether the colorimeter has drifted too far or not, but not correct it if it has, right?


-fafrd
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You can correct it in the calibration software you are using. HCFR has an option to import a correction matrix which you create.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/1518575/advice-on-colorimeter-for-newbie#post_24376897


OK, thanks. SO with a spectro you can at least check whether the colorimeter has drifted too far or not, but not correct it if it has, right?


-fafrd
Click to expand...
meter has an internal table that is "flashed" with correction numbers.

this is factory and CP chromapure, CM calman, LS lightspace have the ability to "reflash".

All the software has what is called offset tables created with a spectro and colormeter.

basically you read White, red, green,blue with a spectro then read again with a colormeter.

the differences in numbers is an "offset" entered into the software program.

called "profiling".

so, 1 internal tables

2, software compensation.

these are the methods to get a low cost meter to be accurate.
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