AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My home theater is my living room and is currently a 5.1 setup. It is not ideal as the couch is against the rear wall and front speakers are mounted to the entertainment center. I have managed to calibrate the speakers for their placement though so it sounds OK. Center seat of the couch is centered on the TV. Below are pictures and a diagram of how it is currently setup.

I am thinking of upgrading to a 9 channel receiver. What could I do with those 4 extra channels to get better sound? I don't mind placing speakers in the ceiling but the side walls would be hard given the window and pass through. I could move the front speakers to the wall behind the entertainment center but would it block some of the sound.

Product Rectangle Font Parallel Plan
Wood Interior design Television Hearth Home appliance
Picture frame Property Couch Furniture Lighting
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,222 Posts
First thing I'd do is move stuff around - the space just screams for a 180° flip:
Rectangle Line Parallel Font Pattern


Move the fish tank and the bookshelves to the now-vacant wall behind the sofa. Put a pair of towers (or bookshelf speakers on stands) on either side of - but not too close to - the TV console and toe them in toward the MLP. Proceed from there. :)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah that is a no go. That is a 90 gallon fishtank and I had to reinforce the floor for it. So until the fish die it isn't going anyplace,

I also think it would become awful tight. The couch has built in recliners and when they are up the coffee tables is pretty much even with the entry way to the kitchen.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
You not going to achieve anything really by rejecting information that actually helps you for your setup.

9 channels worth it only if you can have atmos speakers both in front and behind the MLP and this means repositioning the seating. If ceiling height is 2.4m and ear level 1m then the distance from the back wall to seated ears will be 1.5m minimum

I also agree on 180 degree rotation of the setup excluding the fish tank.

If you not going to consider moving the furniture arrangement then what's the point in doing anything?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The fishtank is 1500 lbs. it needs to be in a corner near the outside walls to keep from sagging the floor. Also moving it would probably kill the stuff in it.

if flipping the room is the only way to improve the sound then I guess it stays as is and I save a lot of money.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: RayGuy

· Registered
Joined
·
15,065 Posts
The fishtank is 1500 lbs. it needs to be in a corner near the outside walls to keep from sagging the floor. Also moving it would probably kill the stuff in it.

if flipping the room is the only way to improve the sound then I guess it stays as is and I save a lot of money.
Leave the tank where it is but still flip the room. There should be enough room for that to happen. Getting the couch off the wall will significantly improve the sound quality in the room. Plus, it gives you the proper positioning to implement .4 Atmos and make the screen appear larger. Win win win.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,018 Posts
I am thinking of upgrading to a 9 channel receiver. What could I do with those 4 extra channels to get better sound?
Well, you really have to first define "better sound". Adding more speakers in a living room environment with no acoustic treatment can actually make it sound worse, because now you have even more reflections mixing with each other and making a sonic mess.

Now, if by better sound you just mean things flying overhead with new ceiling speakers and aren't worried about improving clarity, bass, etc, then that's fine.

Me, I'd spend on upgrading the existing speakers before moving on to a new receiver.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Leave the tank where it is but still flip the room. There should be enough room for that to happen. Getting the couch off the wall will significantly improve the sound quality in the room. Plus, it gives you the proper positioning to implement .4 Atmos and make the screen appear larger. Win win win.
That may be possible. I need to figure out if there is enough space to transit from the front door to the kitchen with feeling like you are in a chute. The sketch makes it look like there is more room than there really is. The couch needing power does complicate things slightly as there would now be a cord running from one wall to the center.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, you really have to first define "better sound". Adding more speakers in a living room environment with no acoustic treatment can actually make it sound worse, because now you have even more reflections mixing with each other and making a sonic mess.

Now, if by better sound you just mean things flying overhead with new ceiling speakers and aren't worried about improving clarity, bass, etc, then that's fine.

Me, I'd spend on upgrading the existing speakers before moving on to a new receiver.
Yeah it is a rather nebulous statement. I want movies to sound closer to what I would hear in the theater. I posted the same question to Reddit and there suggestion was new speakers. Arendal 1961 was what I was recommended.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sb1

· Registered
Joined
·
8,018 Posts
Yeah it is a rather nebulous statement. I want movies to sound closer to what I would hear in the theater. I posted the same question to Reddit and there suggestion was new speakers. Arendal 1961 was what I was recommended.
New base layer speakers would definitely be my recommendation before anything else if getting closer to cinema sound is what you're after. Never heard them but according to what I've read the Arendals seem to be well regarded. Can't really tell what speakers you're using now but from the looks of it the Arendals would be a massive upgrade.

Do you have a budget in mind?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
New base layer speakers would definitely be my recommendation before anything else if getting closer to cinema sound is what you're after. Never heard them but according to what I've read the Arendals seem to be well regarded. Can't really tell what speakers you're using now but from the looks of it the Arendals would be a massive upgrade.

Do you have a budget in mind?
Current speakers are Jamo A310’s. They are about 20 years old.
The Arendals would cost me about $4k to replace everything. Not sure if I really want to pay that much. About half that is what I was aiming for originally,

Current AVR is an Integra DTR 5.2. It pushes 85W per channel. I had thought about upgrading to an Integra DRX 5.4
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,018 Posts
Current speakers are Jamo A310’s. They are about 20 years old.
The Arendals would cost me about $4k to replace everything. Not sure if I really want to pay that much. About half that is what I was aiming for originally,

Current AVR is an Integra DTR 5.2. It pushes 85W per channel. I had thought about upgrading to an Integra DRX 5.4
I'd forgo the receiver upgrade for now and focus on speakers. Electronics for what you want to do, speakers for what you want to hear.

But that's me. Also, if you did decide to focus on speakers, Arendals aren't the cheapest. There could be less costly options that would perform just as well in your particular room. Your listening environment isn't really tailored for great sound (most functioning family rooms really aren't), and that can help even the playing field when it comes to expensive vs cheaper speakers.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'd forgo the receiver upgrade for now and focus on speakers. Electronics for what you want to do, speakers for what you want to hear.

But that's me. Also, if you did decide to focus on speakers, Arendals aren't the cheapest. There could be less costly options that would perform just as well in your particular room. Your listening environment isn't really tailored for great sound (most functioning family rooms really aren't), and that can help even the playing field when it comes to expensive vs cheaper speakers.
Well the new Reciever would do a couple things I want to do - HDMI switching, Bluetooth and Air Play.

I guess I will be doing a phased upgrade. A little at a time to keep the cost reasonable. Spread it all out over maybe a year
 
  • Like
Reactions: sb1

· Registered
Joined
·
8,018 Posts
Well the new Reciever would do a couple things I want to do - HDMI switching, Bluetooth and Air Play.

I guess I will be doing a phased upgrade. A little at a time to keep the cost reasonable. Spread it all out over maybe a year
Phased upgrades are pretty much how the vast majority of us did it and are still doing it years later. This stuff's expensive. A little here, a little there. Before you know it you have a great setup. Clark W. Griswold taught us all that getting there is half the fun.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Phased upgrades are pretty much how the vast majority of us did it and are still doing it years later. This stuff's expensive. A little here, a little there. Before you know it you have a great setup. Clark W. Griswold taught us all that getting there is half the fun.
I am more used to doing it all in one shot or maybe two…
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
read this for speaker placement. having good placement is just as important to achieving a cinematic experience.


if you really want to improve things. I hope you consider all possible options before making a decision.
Enjoy!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
read this for speaker placement. having good placement is just as important to achieving a cinematic experience.


if you really want to improve things. I hope you consider all possible options before making a decision.
Enjoy!
Since I can't have speakers behind the couch I appear to be stuck at 5.1. My rear speakers are within the prescribed arc (they are about 105 degrees behind). I will have to double check the elevation but I believe they are close. The fronts are too close to each other . I may move them to the wall. That will put them behind the plane of the screen / center but the receiver should be able to correct for that.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,385 Posts
The fishtank is 1500 lbs. it needs to be in a corner near the outside walls to keep from sagging the floor. Also moving it would probably kill the stuff in it.

if flipping the room is the only way to improve the sound then I guess it stays as is and I save a lot of money.
If I may help with your fish tank concerns. I kept and bred Tanganyikan/malawi cichlids for 30 years. Had 125,90,75, all on main floor over the years. Your tank can't be 1500 because my 125 weighed 1300-1400. It was also full of about 200 lbs of rock. I currently have a king size waterbed in place. No issues ever. And that wall your couch is on now looks like load bearing wall.
The suggestion to flip is a sound one. It solves many of your placement issues and allows a proper setup of 5.1, 7.1, 5.1.2, 5.1.4. Give it some thought before saying no. Best of luck.
Regards Rich
 

· Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
If I may help with your fish tank concerns. I kept and bred Tanganyikan/malawi cichlids for 30 years. Had 125,90,75, all on main floor over the years. Your tank can't be 1500 because my 125 weighed 1300-1400. It was also full of about 200 lbs of rock. I currently have a king size waterbed in place. No issues ever. And that wall your couch is on now looks like load bearing wall.
The suggestion to flip is a sound one. It solves many of your placement issues and allows a proper setup of 5.1, 7.1, 5.1.2, 5.1.4. Give it some thought before saying no. Best of luck.
Regards Rich
You are right it is 1050 lbs not 1500. I flipped a number. A waterbed is a totally different issue as it covers a much larger area. The fishtank is under 8 sq ft. That works out to over 130 lbs per sq ft. Normal floor design is 40 psf. So the fishtank is over 3 times the design load. Thus the reason for load bearing and reinforcement. The load bearing matters for the floor under not above. In this case the concrete foundation walls. Yes couch is on a load bearing wall as the fishtank is along the same wall. The wall where the TV is is part of the stairwell. It has a double floor joist. The 2x3's under it are not exactly straight so I don't fully trust them. By the way I have a PhD in Mech Engr so I know about distributing loads.

I asked several people who have been in the house and the response has been a universal no. Pretty much it may work better for surround sound but it would be worse for everything else, Also it would mess up with the ability to move between the rest of the house and the kitchen. I tried marking out where the couch would have to go and it just doesn’t work.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,385 Posts
You are right it is 1050 lbs not 1500. I flipped a number. A waterbed is a totally different issue as it covers a much larger area. The fishtank is under 8 sq ft. That works out to over 130 lbs per sq ft. Normal floor design is 40 psf. So the fishtank is over 3 times the design load. Thus the reason for load bearing and reinforcement. The load bearing matters for the floor under not above. In this case the concrete foundation walls. Yes couch is on a load bearing wall as the fishtank is along the same wall. The wall where the TV is, is not. It has a double hoist for the stairs but that is it.

I asked several people who have been in the house and the response has been a universal no. Pretty much it may work better for surround sound but it would be worse for everything else, Also it would mess up with the ability to move between the rest of the house and the kitchen. I tried marking out where the couch would have to go and it just doesn’t work.
Don't know who those people are but I hope you all weren't crammed into one area thinking on it. You might have fallen through. 40psf is over the entirety of the floor. That would include the whole level. And unless any reenforcement you did is tied directly to the beams it is useless and provides not benifit.
This will explain better then I if your interested.

And if it matters being in the construction industry for many years I've asked this of structural engineers more then a few times.
Best of luck in your upgrades.
Regards Rich
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top