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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,
I am in need of some guidance please guys :)


Details.
Pair of sealed stereo subs for L/R front corner placement.
30-300hz as clean as possible
Not much bigger than 100 litres per sub if possible.

I have Behringer NU6000DSP so can EQ for extension but hoping corner placement will boost enough naturally.

Using Lyngdorf TDAi2170 integrated amp with RoomPerfect to integrate system.

I've chosen Acoustic Elegance for the low inductance & I know they put sound quality first having previously owned 8 of their IB15's.

TD18's or SBP15's guys ?

Thank you in advance :)
Jason
 

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i would say check out the TD15H for a 3 cubic foot sealed driver, though the TD18H should work too
.
here are several options, separated by spl simply so each response can be seen. ignore the level itself and focus on the curves.
from the top: TD15H, TD15S, SBP15, and TD18H.




 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you LTD,
Don't go giving me more options though :eek:

The TD15 & 18 do look to have nice steady roll offs but what about the overall qt of the systems,it's sound quality I'm after more than outright output.

I have very limited knowledge so please don't be afraid to spell stuff out to me in very basic terms ;)

Cheers
Jason
 

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the top line and the bottom line both are low q designs. the low q designs have that shallow type rolloff.


the 18 being the larger driver would get you more spl, so that kind of depends on how much you need.


given that you are in England, you might want to take a look at the b&c 18tbw100/18sw115. very well engineered drivers.


the sbp15 might do very well in a larger cabinet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
the top line and the bottom line both are low q designs. the low q designs have that shallow type rolloff.


the 18 being the larger driver would get you more spl, so that kind of depends on how much you need.


given that you are in England, you might want to take a look at the b&c 18tbw100/18sw115. very well engineered drivers.


the sbp15 might do very well in a larger cabinet.
Oh not more options ;)
Thank you LTD I really appreciate the help.

The b&c drivers look nice but have a high le compared to the AE woofers,my research has led me to understand that inductance is what really limits a woofer in responding to input signals.

If you don't mind,could you explain a little about low/high Q & how it effects the sound ?
 

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firing from the corner and wanting clean out to 300 Hz ?

You need to watch out for boundary null around 200Hz or so, depending on box size from a direct radiator mounted diagonally across the corner.

Consider something like Pi Corner Horn bass bin, which uses AE TD12S tuned to 35 hz, to avoid the nulls.

In any case, the AE TD12S and TD12X need less volume and may work better for you ported than a 15 or 18 sealed
 

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given that you are in England, you might want to take a look at the b&c 18tbw100/18sw115. very well engineered drivers.
Or the BMS 18N62, that you can get for 445£ here: toutlehautparleur bms-18n862-4

Specifications



18" NEODYMIUM ULTRA LOW DISTORTION WOOFER

95 dB Sensitivity 1 W / 1 m
1500 W Power handling
4” copper sandwich voice coil for low power compression
Neodymium magnet system
Double treated cone for water protection
Triple aluminum demodulating rings for ultra low distortion
Light Weight Carbon Fiber Diaphragm
Optimal for high output Subwoofers



(those are the parameters for the 8 ohms version, i have the 4 ohms version data that i got from BMS, i will post it later. The LE for the 4 ohms version, for example, is 0,51)


Other drivers you can get in Europe:
- BMS 18N862 (4Ohm/8Ohm) - 650€
- RCF LF21N451 (8Ohm) - 420€
- RCF LF21N551 (8Ohm) - 550€
- B&C 21SW115 (4Ohm) - 460€

The BMS 18N862 was tested by Ricci here, and in the forum he stated : "This is one of the best all around bass drivers I've found yet"

I'm going to build a 126L box for the BMS, you can see more details here: diy-subwoofer-newbie
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
firing from the corner and wanting clean out to 300 Hz ?

You need to watch out for boundary null around 200Hz or so, depending on box size from a direct radiator mounted diagonally across the corner.

Consider something like Pi Corner Horn bass bin, which uses AE TD12S tuned to 35 hz, to avoid the nulls.

In any case, the AE TD12S and TD12X need less volume and may work better for you ported than a 15 or 18 sealed
Thanks Jack,
I am a simple man & probably best I stick to a nice simple sealed bass system to give myself half a chance ;)
 

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Oh not more options ;)
Thank you LTD I really appreciate the help.
The b&c drivers look nice but have a high le compared to the AE woofers,my research has led me to understand that inductance is what really limits a woofer in responding to input signals.

voice coil magazine tested the 18sw115 and 18tbw100 drivers. below is the tbw100.
measured at 104db at 1m, the driver has about 1% thd.
i'm not sure if it gets much better than that.






at this point, the suggestions made are all very good and results will depend far more on implementation than driver choice.
 

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Thanks Neo,
The driver your using looks interesting & I'll follow your build thread,it's still double the inductance of the AE drivers though.
I dont think it matters, as the values are already so low: SPB15 = 0,3; TD18+=0, 41; [email protected]=0,51.
Besides, the LMS Ultra is considered one of the best drivers, and as a LE = 3,57mh.

I considered the AE TD18, but the cost would be much higher due to taxes and shipping, and if any problem existed, i would have to send the driver back to the USA.

The BMS, B&C, RFC, etc are easily available in Europe, are reasonably cheap, and it would be easier to solve any problem if needed.

The suggested B&C 18 TBW100, for example, is available for 230€ here: http://www.toutlehautparleur.com/b-c-18tbw100-8ohm-1.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
how much output are you looking for? I take it this for a dedicated music system & replacing the (quad?) peerless setup? what will you be pairing them with?
Hi Matt,
Yeah,your correct mate,the Peerless woofers sounded fine until I started using my DIY BMR speakers & they just didn't blend well at all,lowering the crossover helped but I only currently have 4 BMR's per speaker & as I like to play fairly loud it wasn't ideal.

According to the supplier of the BMR's they have a very fast settling time & require careful matching to woofers.

A bit of googling as to what influences woofer "speed" led me to info on inductance, I knew Low inductance is a strong point of AE drivers & having had the 8 IB15"s they seemed to be an obvious go to.
 

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be careful about mixing concepts, jason.

stored energy is related to resonances and settling time.

inductance is an electo-magnetic property related to various distortions.

it sounds like you may actually be looking for the former more than the latter.

a csd plot may begin to reveal some of the differences that you seek. those are very rare, so it is going to be a challenge.
 

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Hi Matt,
Yeah,your correct mate,the Peerless woofers sounded fine until I started using my DIY BMR speakers & they just didn't blend well at all,lowering the crossover helped but I only currently have 4 BMR's per speaker & as I like to play fairly loud it wasn't ideal.

According to the supplier of the BMR's they have a very fast settling time & require careful matching to woofers.
What is the setup exactly? I don't recall the BMRs tbh. I wonder whether you need to take finer control over the way they integrate with your woofers to really make it work. I know you like the lyngdorf kit but we're talking an active xo here not just bass management.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
be careful about mixing concepts, jason.

stored energy is related to resonances and settling time.

inductance is an electo-magnetic property related to various distortions.

it sounds like you may actually be looking for the former more than the latter.

a csd plot may begin to reveal some of the differences that you seek. those are very rare, so it is going to be a challenge.
Hey LTD,you are again correct,thank you for mentioning
the stored energy thing,that was one of the things highlighted by the BMR driver supplier,he actually advised using pro bass drivers with cloth surrounds.

I'm now leaning towards blatantly copying Neo with the BMS 18 ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
What is the setup exactly? I don't recall the BMRs tbh. I wonder whether you need to take finer control over the way they integrate with your woofers to really make it work. I know you like the lyngdorf kit but we're talking an active xo here not just bass management.
Hey Matt,
When I went to demo the BMR's the guy was using only a mid range Yamaha avr to crossover between BMR's & his subs & it sounded superb,once he knew what woofers I was using he described how they sounded against the BMR's without even hearing it !

I think I'm gonna give the BMS a shot :cool:
 
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