Aerial SW12 placement questions

Jerry:


Well I might be wrong but it seemed to sound better in the back right corner to me and my wife.


I use my wife to help to diffuse my tendancy to talk myself ino things <g>.


But with that said it seems to me that if it sounds better in one location than another then there must be some truth to the placement arguement.


When I say that the rest of the sound track seemed better am I off here? I guess I just don't understand how that can happen. Not a big deal that I don't understand it but I'm just trying to learn it.


Also, played with the phase. It always stays on 0+ no matter what I do.


The damping switch seemed to make a big difference.,


Since I don't have a book, what is happening with the + and - damaing factors.


The EQ switches are in the UP or 12:00 position. The low pass at 70 and the level at +2 on the back of the unit.


Do these settings sound close to yours?


Thanks again for the generous help.


Chuck

ZOWEEEEEEEEEEE! What did I tell you! YIPEEEEEEEE! And I luv my Aerial three subs - they're all stayiing in my room!


You mentioned that when you were lookin' for low freqency info, only then could you tell where the SW12 came in. I assume you mean that you listened without the Aerial sub, then listened to the same track again with the Aerial sub, and WOWEEEEE, you realized all the info and vibrations added by the sub. Nifty, isn't it! The imaging, detail and body prickin' heart thumpin' bass increases disproportionately if you add more Aerial subs.


I have had a number of Audiophiles over listening to my setup including Aerial subs. Forum member Shaun Pressley has been over two months ago, with two Aerial subs both in front left corner (I wanted added LFE extension), and last week with three Aerial subs (the third going in front right corner), and Shaun volunterred what I had "heard" already from a few friends, that before he could at times if he thought about it "localized" the front left corner Aerials a bit, whereas now with the third Aerial sub in the right front corner he couldn't. Although I sort of liked the added extension with the second Aerial sub next to the first one in the front left corner, if I only had two of them, I think I would forgo the extra 3 dB extension (by having two Aerial subs in the same corner) and place them in opposite corner for smoothness). Of course, only my preference, from months of listening and experimenting in my room.


Your friend saying little info below 100 Hz shows his ignorance of the importance of the last several octaves. There's a lot of stuff down there.


"Since the frequencies are low placement is not an issue." Hardly. Now the Aerials are so musical that perhaps placement is not absolutely as crucial as with some other less musical subs. But placement is always crucial.

Placement in a corner will normally get you added extension due to coupling with more room walls and boundaries. Place the Aerial sub in your normal listening position, and then go around the room, with your head at about normal listening height, and listen for where the bass sounds best (measure with a Radio Shack sound level meter, and listen, and where the bass measures loudest but still sounds wonderful and clean to you) and this will give you places to try placing the Aerial sub.


Now I would say if you're already tired of moving the sub around and listening (heck, I'm tired of talking about it) just spring the bucks, get two, and put them in the opposing front room corners. I'm just kidding, because each room and system is different and what works for me may not work for you. (Typical legal disclaimer - what else do you expect from a lawyer???)


The Aerial stands provide additional mass and vibration control (see Barry Kohan of Bright Star Audio special guest thread at the AV Science Tweaks forum several weeks ago for discussion of vibrational damping under speakers and subwoofers improving performance) which will improve the sub sound some, especially with wood floors in particular. Get them! Their neat lookin, too.


THe surround corner nearby may be fine for placement. But a front corner may be better - especially when you are asking the Aerial sub to reproduce low bass on music, or music soundtracks for DVD, etc. The Aerial sub is so good that you have to really listen to localize low bass - but as your ear/brain improves, it is possible on occassion to localize from one Aerial sub.


You say you will probably get another Aerial sub. Good for you!

And as I suggested, for now, leave the Velodyne's out of the equation and just get familiar with the Aerial. If you add a second Aerial sub, do the same, and try both Aerial subs in the same corner vs one in each front corner, among other configurations which can drive you crazy and your arms tired and weak. Once you settle on your two Aerial sub configuration, then try connecting your Velodyne subs, for LFE only, and place them in the corner next to one of the Aerial subs. Of course, as you add subs to the mix, you will need to readjust the subs volume!


By the way, using my five Vandy subs (high pass filtered bass only 50 Hz 6 dB) and three Aerial subs (high pass filtered bass and LFE), I've adjusted the volume level on all of them so that the Vandy subs alone are about 4 dB higher in loudness (this only applies to non-LFE since Vandys don't play LFE Stuff way I have them setup); Vandy and Aerial subs combined for non-LFE stuff remain 4 dB higher (with rear Aerial sub volume set at 1/4 and front Aerial remote volume set at -10 which is all way down); for LFE stuff and most music and non-LFE, now that I have three Aerial subs, I usually leave the front Aerial volume at -5, which translates to about a 7 dB higher overall Vandy and Aerial sub level than the corresponding Aerial speaker, again prior to LFE in Aerial subs only. (Previously with two Aerial subs I was setting the front Aerial volume at -5, but it just was too overwhelming with my ears actually starting to ring and hurt from the reality of the explosions.)


I hope you enjoy all of these ideas. Now go play!!!!!

I work at home and must admit that I am having trouble working today. Playing The Fifth Element Was soooo intense last night I can't wait to fool with this thing some more.


I belive all of the posts here, just trying to understand a couple of things.


Why is it a good idea to basically load up a corner of a room?


I found that by placing one Velodyne under my desk (at the rear of the room) facing the oposing wall and the other velodyne firing straight ahead that they did in fact sound cleaner. According to most of the things I have read this should cause a problem but it doesn't . These two woofers are at a 45 degree angle to one another and so some of the data that is fired out crosses the path of each sub.


You would think this would not work but it sounds about the best.


We wanted to get the best possible sound from the existing Velodynes before we started with the Aerials.


I am hopeful that I can put the SW12's outside of the 10T's.


If I put the SW12's in one corner and run interconnects will I have signal problems on the length of the cable run?


Can't wait till later.



Chuck



>>>A friend has told me two things that I am trying to resolve. They are:


1: There is very little information below 100 hz. So, the contribution that a sub makes is marginal at best.<<<



There's a great deal fo info <100hz, and today, with DVD/LD audio improvements...there's more and more info all the way down to the 18-24hz

range.



>>>and


2: Since the frequencies are low placement is not an issue.


When I moved the SW12 to the back right corner of my room the sound seemed better.<<<



Half right.


Typically, frequencies under 75-80hz cannot be localized by human hearing(unless in the complete absence of higher freqs). Therefore, you can place the subwoofer anywhere in the room and you should be UNable to *hear* where the bass is coming from.


However, bass response at the listening positions will be determined to a great degree by the location of the subwoofer. So optimzing the location of the unit is very important.




>>>We played the first 10 or 15 minutes of The Fifth Element. It shook my room. I mean that literally. But, it was not disconcerting. You "felt" the space ship as it passed in front of you. When the tailgate drops down at the temple in Egypt and you hear a heavy metal thud, it fits the picture.<<<


Exactly!


Quite often, I think folks think clean/loud/low bass is going to overwhelm the soundtrack and just be *boomy*. I feel clean bass simply

draws you into the film more though. Instead of watching a moving picture...it's almost like a virtual reality experience at times.


When a T-Rex stomps, and the whole room shudders...your hair stand on end,your pulse rises,and it just makes the whole experience so much better!



TV


[This message has been edited by TV (edited May 18, 2000).]



>>>Why is it a good idea to basically load up a corner of a room?


I found that by placing one Velodyne under my desk (at the rear of the room) facing the oposing wall and the other velodyne firing straight ahead that they did in fact sound cleaner. According to most of the things I have read this should cause a problem but it doesn't . These two woofers are at a 45 degree angle to one another and so some of the data that is fired out crosses the path of each sub.


You would think this would not work but it sounds about the best.


We wanted to get the best possible sound from the existing Velodynes before we started with the Aerials.


I am hopeful that I can put the SW12's outside of the 10T's.<<<


Headroom and response dictate subwoofer performace for HT. So, you place the unit to optimize each aspect.


HEADROOM:


Easy. Each boundary will reinforce the acoustical output of any speaker.The exact amount of reinforcement will depend...but I think you

could expect approx 4 to 4.5dB of *gain* from each boundary involved.


So a corner will typically add 12-14dB of *gain* to the output of a subwoofer....and that's a very good thing!


RESPONSE:


Not easy. Bass response problems are mainly due to a lack of room mode density as the frequencies fall. As the frequencies drop , the modes become more and more widely spaced...as such...it becomes more and more important to *excite* every possible mode in the room to insure the smoothest possible response over a variety of listening positions.


Corner loading has the additional advantage of exciting the greatest possible number of room modes. Any alternative subwoofer location won't.


A corner nearest the key seats,without any adjacent boundaries near it typically works very well in most common room layouts. If the corners are unavailable, then you can try the old *acoustical inversion* trick.


This *trick* works when you count on the acoustical energy of a subwoofer "inverting"(or reversing) itself perfectly in a given room environment. Does this happen? Nope. But it almost always happens

well enough to be quite useful to HT enthusiasts.


A couple of tips when doing this...


1)try to place the subwoofer as close to ear level as possible(in the key seat)

2)use a WIDE variety of source material. You don't want to simply put the subwoofer in the location that provides the loudest 30-40hz bass for instance. You want to put the subwoofer in the location that provides the SMOOTHEST bass. Thus, you need to use source material that spans the WHOLE frequency range of the woof.(usually 20-80hz).




Linelevel cable runs can be very long as long as the cable is well shielded. I use 40 feet of generic VIDEL cable for my subwoofer run(total cost of about $25?)...and it works without flaw.


TV