AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
161 - 180 of 190 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Not seeing the problem with the new color timing in Aliens.


Movies that abuse Teal/Orange can definitely look a**-ugly, like Transformers 2 or Iron Man 2, but not here imo.


The skin tones look proper, the blues respect the original atmosphere, etc. Nothing is fundamentally changed, if anything, the film looks more consistent now.


I will admit, I prefer the Steely Blue tones that is seen in parts of the original film, however the majority of Aliens had a purple-ish tone rather than a blue one, and in that case I find the new color job, which seems to emphazise the cold atmosphere, to be a vast improvement.






This scene is a perfect example. The new colors work much better and feel much more suited the films atmosphere, rather than the original, which seems neither here nor there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Always hated the original pinky-purple hue that the whole of Aliens used to have on previous formats. I was not expecting a colour re-timing, but its very welcome. It looks a lot better now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,531 Posts
If the pictures in post 161 are representative of the BD v an HD broadcast, well all I can say is I'm now down to looking forward to the individual

BD release of Alien.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
I love the little disclaimer on the back of the UK box:

"These discs contain a sequence involving strobe lights effects and could trigger a fit in susceptible viewers."

Remove a few key words and this is a pretty good description of the posts on this (and the other) thread (not that I disapprove of those posts/complaints).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbo /forum/post/19409827


Not seeing the problem with the new color timing in Aliens.


Movies that abuse Teal/Orange can definitely look a**-ugly, like Transformers 2 or Iron Man 2, but not here imo.


The skin tones look proper, the blues respect the original atmosphere, etc. Nothing is fundamentally changed, if anything, the film looks more consistent now.

They reduced it to a nearly duotone color scheme, there are no skin tones now. To say that the this respects the "original atmosphere", wtf is the original atmosphere? If they turned Holloween orange would that be because the atmosphere deemed it so? Turn scarface red because theres blood in it? Should movies that take place in the past be converted to nearly black and white because that, to you, represents the "atmosphere" of the old days? The atmosphere comes from what happens in the film, not what happens TO the film by these pseudo-colorists.


I agree about it looking more consistent, but thats because its only a few colors now and that isn't a good thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbo /forum/post/19409827


I will admit, I prefer the Steely Blue tones that is seen in parts of the original film, however the majority of Aliens had a purple-ish tone rather than a blue one, and in that case I find the new color job, which seems to emphazise the cold atmosphere, to be a vast improvement.

Its a vast improvement to you because it removed all of the tones. There is no color to balance, its almost all a single color or the other (complementary colors).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbo /forum/post/19409827


This scene is a perfect example. The new colors work much better and feel much more suited the films atmosphere, rather than the original, which seems neither here nor there.

Alright, you asked for it



Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Everyone should see these if they aren't convinced:


Here is the original you linked to:





Here is what happens when you change the gamma of the image. In normal images, when the gamma changes, the image looks like a total mess because all of the color relationships fall apart. In the bluray of Aliens, there are no relationships because there are no colors so when you adjust gamma the ENTIRE IMAGE CHANGES and matches.


Here is what happens when you adjust gamma on the broadcast, with the intact colors:





And heres what happens if you do the identical adjustment on the bluray:



See how almost nothing is out of wack on the bluray? It means there was nothing to throw out of wack.


How about adjusting gamma to give it Yellow "atmosphere":




Interesting, but obviously that doesn't really fit with the feeling. That light should be "cool", so instead of using the warm or hot colors lets just use the cool variety:



Well hot damn! A non-warm color for dark cool atmospheric lighting works!


Why is that working at all? Because its basically a single color. Here is the bluray shot colorized, meaning converted down to one single color.




How different is that from the bluray? Not very. Its basically almost a black and white image, colorized, and then adjusted to a particular complementary color set.







Now the fun part.



Here are the original shots you provided, of the bluray and the broadcast:





And heres the broadcast with a little manipulation:



Uh oh...


The processing isn't even going as far as the bluray, and the list already included (in order, these need to be in-step):


-take the original image and do a hue adjustment, selecting the entire range of colors around teal and do a +29 shift and then desaturate it slightly. So totally ruin the flesh (and all other non-teal) tones and remove the color from them.

-blend a fully teal colorized duplicate of the original image on top of it in soft light mode, meaning parts were blown out and others clipped to black.

-hue adjust of -13

-curve adjustment, blowing the highlights a little bit

-+21 saturation

-apply a gausian noise of 2-3% over the output from the previous adjustments to make it look "film grainy".


Not bad for a few minutes. Totally destructive to the image, not more natural or anything of the sort. They went further, there is even less color information in the bluray shots than in the one above even with those absurdly extreme adjustments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Its up to personal preference, that's all there is to it.


I understand your problem with it, but to me, it just looks much better in comparison to most of the old look, theres nothing else I can add to that. When I look at the blu-ray transfer, it just seems "right."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbo /forum/post/19410525


Its up to personal preference, that's all there is to it.


I understand your problem with it, but to me, it just looks much better in comparison to most of the old look, theres nothing else I can add to that. When I look at the blu-ray transfer, it just seems "right."

Thats fine, but we all should be able to agree that there are fewer colors, it is highly stylized, and it isn't more natural. You can prefer this look, for whatever reason, but you can't change the facts surrounding it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
470 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestevenson /forum/post/19410457


If they turned Holloween orange would that be because the atmosphere deemed it so?

Careful with that kind of talk! DP Dean Cudney did tweak the colors on the THX DVD version of Halloween, with cool blues during the nighttime stalking scenes and warm yellows during the "Autumn" afternoons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentai /forum/post/19411184


Careful with that kind of talk! DP Dean Cudney did tweak the colors on the THX DVD version of Halloween, with cool blues during the nighttime stalking scenes and warm yellows during the "Autumn" afternoons.

rofl
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,948 Posts
The colors in the hdtv cap looks more wrong. It has the usual color tweak for a video transfer, were they push the colors more neutral.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,262 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestevenson /forum/post/19410609


Thats fine, but we all should be able to agree that there are fewer colors, it is highly stylized, and it isn't more natural. You can prefer this look, for whatever reason, but you can't change the facts surrounding it.

I'm leaning more on the side of The King Of The World himself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,969 Posts
I would like to formally apologize to stevestevenson and take back most of what I said about the first Alien movie. I rewatched parts of it last night, and damn you were right. It's teal and orange all over. I don't know how I didn't notice this the first time.


It's still not quite as bad as Aliens, because at least there are still some other colors than just teal and orange, but it's definitely part of this annoying fad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,883 Posts
I'm just not a fan of films getting revised this way. IMO the Alien DTheater tape looked good. If you look at some of the Star Wars revisions the added CGI in places just looks like it is just what it is, an out of place distraction.


I can say the same about this rather severe color change. I see it in Blade Runner where the added green in the Final Cut just eliminates some of the rather subtle and quite gorgeous colors in the Directors Cut.


Anyway, it is too late for Alien etc now, it's lost for good most likely.


Art
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,438 Posts
So the intense initial praise is now being drowned out by the claims that the BD color timing has "practically ruined" Alien and Aliens, and now Alien is "lost for good."


Things have changed around here, it seems. It used to be all the over-reaction was to say how almost every new BD has been ruined, even before it came out.


Now it looks like the trend will be how screenshots will leak out, it will be the most gorgeous output ever known to man.... and then DNR/EE/contrast boosting/color timing/other issue du jour will have ruined the director's intent and all audience enjoyment of what could have been and should have been the best presentation of a major movie classic.... ever.

Interesting evolution from "it's all bad" to "it's great, nah, never mind, it's bad, too." Still, I do believe a lot more thought (one could argue "over-thought") is put into the examination of the films on this site. It seems other sites tend do just the opposite, and praise every BD manufactured.


Let's just say, IMO, the "truth for me" has often been in the middle of these two extremes.
The early reviews are still interesting, and the heads up of the playback-ability with certain hardware is still very valuable information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,438 Posts
I can't remember everyone's take on Ocean's 11 (although being this site, it must have been ruined, one way or another
) but I remember it being praised in quite a few other circles for its video quality. I still have that HD DVD, and still like that title. THAT, however, was an orange movie!


Going to try to see if any of my buddies picked up the Alien set, and ask them to borrow one of them (or watch it with them) and see what the uproar is about.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,616 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILJG /forum/post/19415484


I can't remember everyone's take on Ocean's 11 (although being this site, it must have been ruined, one way or another
) but I remember it being praised in quite a few other circles for its video quality. I still have that HD DVD, and still like that title. THAT, however, was an orange movie!


Going to try to see if any of my buddies picked up the Alien set, and ask them to borrow one of them (or watch it with them) and see what the uproar is about.

All 3 Oceans look exactly how they looked in the cinema, people with a problem forget that
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
These gripes do feel pretty insane to me. Yes, the color timing has been changed, but one's preference for the color of a movie is quite subjective. Overall, Alien and Aliens looks absolutely fantastic, with exceptional detail and even a nice sheen of grain. Previous home versions of Aliens were absolutely atrocious and I am glad to have this new BD. I, for one, welcome our new teal/orange overlords if they can guarantee that all new BDs will have the picture quality of Alien or Aliens.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,616 Posts
I just wish that this was an archival edition like Blade Runner with all versions/cuts/looks off all the movies.

But if they did that, then what would they sell us next time around?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,883 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILJG /forum/post/19415465


So the intense initial praise is now being drowned out by the claims that the BD color timing has "practically ruined" Alien and Aliens, and now Alien is "lost for good."


Things have changed around here, it seems. It used to be all the over-reaction was to say how almost every new BD has been ruined, even before it came out.


Now it looks like the trend will be how screenshots will leak out, it will be the most gorgeous output ever known to man.... and then DNR/EE/contrast boosting/color timing/other issue du jour will have ruined the director's intent and all audience enjoyment of what could have been and should have been the best presentation of a major movie classic.... ever.

Interesting evolution from "it's all bad" to "it's great, nah, never mind, it's bad, too." Still, I do believe a lot more thought (one could argue "over-thought") is put into the examination of the films on this site. It seems other sites tend do just the opposite, and praise every BD manufactured.


Let's just say, IMO, the "truth for me" has often been in the middle of these two extremes.
The early reviews are still interesting, and the heads up of the playback-ability with certain hardware is still very valuable information.



Having previous interations, like the DTheater version, makes a difference. Reviews based on the image without knowing that at some point it may have actually looked better are at a disadvantage.


The screen cap comparisons can be real "objective " eye openers.




Art
 
161 - 180 of 190 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top