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What about UPS? Same policy?
Jeff
Jeff
All attorney's read this - I'm PI**ED!!
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Is the contract binding? Has it been tested in court?
Just because they wrote it, doesn't mean they're not liable. Contact a lawyer and think about small claims court. Perhaps FedEx will just pay you rather than chance losing and have to change their T & C's.
--Les
Just because they wrote it, doesn't mean they're not liable. Contact a lawyer and think about small claims court. Perhaps FedEx will just pay you rather than chance losing and have to change their T & C's.
--Les
LG 55" C9 OLED, Yamaha RX-A660, Monoprice 5.1.2 Speakers, WMC HTPC, TiVo Bolt, X1
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My company is in a similar position as far as shipping expensive electronic equipment. In our case, we thought the extra insurance cost that FedEx wanted was way too much. So, we got a rider on our standard insurance policy to cover all possible shipping damage, up to a pre set limit. If we knew we were going to exceed the limit, we called and got a one time addition. It saved a ton of money & simplified our life, as if there was a problem, our insurance company was much more interested in keeping us happy.
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"better living thru modern expensive electronics"
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"better living thru modern expensive electronics"
tm
Hi Les,
I've been told recently, that taking Fed-Ex to small claims will, indeed, get your damage claims re-imbursed as they have no desire to waddle through the mire of court proceedings. But that doesn't address my main beef with this policy of taking people's money in payment for "Vapor Coverage" that appears to be real coverage.
Mike
I've been told recently, that taking Fed-Ex to small claims will, indeed, get your damage claims re-imbursed as they have no desire to waddle through the mire of court proceedings. But that doesn't address my main beef with this policy of taking people's money in payment for "Vapor Coverage" that appears to be real coverage.
Mike
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16,014 Posts
I would file right away in Summary Claims (small claims).
I think you (and all of us who ship FexEx) probably need
to get a microscope and read every word of that fine print
to know where we stand. The link you see on this page is
the only reference to all this I could find on FedEx's website.
http://rate.dmz.fedex.com/us/rates/g...#declaredvalue
But that link ("Declared Value and Limits of Liability") is
not even working.
Bob Wood
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~~The Sultan of Cheap~~
[This message has been edited by RobertWood (edited 04-16-2001).]
I think you (and all of us who ship FexEx) probably need
to get a microscope and read every word of that fine print
to know where we stand. The link you see on this page is
the only reference to all this I could find on FedEx's website.
http://rate.dmz.fedex.com/us/rates/g...#declaredvalue
But that link ("Declared Value and Limits of Liability") is
not even working.
Bob Wood
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~~The Sultan of Cheap~~
[This message has been edited by RobertWood (edited 04-16-2001).]
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6,092 Posts
Mike,
I agree 100%.
If they can't insure the expensive stuff for full price they shouldn't charge full insurance prices.
If they charge you in full for insurance of a $9000 dollar item, then they are insuring the $9000 item. They are in effect breaching their own contract (or "agreement") by charging you the whole amount for an item that they don't normally cover (if your item description is accurate that is). But here is the possible catch, they might not technically charge you for the insurance cost until the item is actually delivered safely. This means that if all goes well on a shipment, they charge full insurance rate on that item. But if damage occurs like in your most recent shipment, they then take a closer look at the item and then tell you it doesn't qualify for the insurance (and then might reduce their insurance charge to reflect the $500 max). Either way they win and they keep their noses clean.
This is kind of like underage gambling in Las Vegas. They don't care if you gamble if you are underage; they are happy to look the other way. But as soon as you hit the jackpot, that's when they start asking for I.D.. Think about it.
You should be able to not only take them to court for this case but for everytime they charged you for coverage they weren't in fact providing.
This could be a serious problem for them. This is a nationwide "scam" that my own company is probably a victim of as well (we make expensive custom electronics).
I will have our general council look into it and see what we plan to do.
-Mr. Wigggles
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The Mothership is now boarding.
[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 04-16-2001).]
I agree 100%.
If they can't insure the expensive stuff for full price they shouldn't charge full insurance prices.
If they charge you in full for insurance of a $9000 dollar item, then they are insuring the $9000 item. They are in effect breaching their own contract (or "agreement") by charging you the whole amount for an item that they don't normally cover (if your item description is accurate that is). But here is the possible catch, they might not technically charge you for the insurance cost until the item is actually delivered safely. This means that if all goes well on a shipment, they charge full insurance rate on that item. But if damage occurs like in your most recent shipment, they then take a closer look at the item and then tell you it doesn't qualify for the insurance (and then might reduce their insurance charge to reflect the $500 max). Either way they win and they keep their noses clean.
This is kind of like underage gambling in Las Vegas. They don't care if you gamble if you are underage; they are happy to look the other way. But as soon as you hit the jackpot, that's when they start asking for I.D.. Think about it.
You should be able to not only take them to court for this case but for everytime they charged you for coverage they weren't in fact providing.
This could be a serious problem for them. This is a nationwide "scam" that my own company is probably a victim of as well (we make expensive custom electronics).
I will have our general council look into it and see what we plan to do.
-Mr. Wigggles
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The Mothership is now boarding.
[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 04-16-2001).]
Right, Mr wiggles,
That was my main point (about charging and accepting the charge under the premise that they were actually covering it). While you make a good analogy about the gambling, it doesn't quite fit the profile of this situation, because (at least in my simple mind) we've requested a service, they appear to have accepted said request in exchange for legal tender, then refused said protection in the event of actual occurrance that the protection was intended to cover, and only then made it obvious that it was never intended to be covered in the 1st place. This, to me, is simply fraudulent. It's like if I bought insurance to cover my body on a vacation, had an arm get chopped off during the vacation, THEN find out that arms, legs, butts, and any other body parts are not covered, when that was the coverage I had specifically asked for in the 1st place!
Mike
That was my main point (about charging and accepting the charge under the premise that they were actually covering it). While you make a good analogy about the gambling, it doesn't quite fit the profile of this situation, because (at least in my simple mind) we've requested a service, they appear to have accepted said request in exchange for legal tender, then refused said protection in the event of actual occurrance that the protection was intended to cover, and only then made it obvious that it was never intended to be covered in the 1st place. This, to me, is simply fraudulent. It's like if I bought insurance to cover my body on a vacation, had an arm get chopped off during the vacation, THEN find out that arms, legs, butts, and any other body parts are not covered, when that was the coverage I had specifically asked for in the 1st place!
Mike
I agree with Ken H that if you do any amount of shipping at all, you're better off looking for the coverage through your insurance broker. I've bought that kind of coverage for companies I've worked for before, and never had a problem with a claim. I've also worked for companies where we chose to self insure and take the risk ourselves.
My take on the shipping companies insurance programs is that since it is not their "core business", it usually tends to be poor coverage, badly administrated, and expensive. I think it's akin to the coverage that you are so graciously offered everytime you rent a car. Lousy coverage at an inflated price!!
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Steve
Visit our dedicated home theater, The City Cinema.
My take on the shipping companies insurance programs is that since it is not their "core business", it usually tends to be poor coverage, badly administrated, and expensive. I think it's akin to the coverage that you are so graciously offered everytime you rent a car. Lousy coverage at an inflated price!!
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Steve
Visit our dedicated home theater, The City Cinema.
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That is ridiculous. This needs to be on 60 minutes or 20/20. Andybody who ships anything feels he or she is insured when they fill out the declared value.
I recently sent a COD $19,125. Fed-ex collected a regular check that bounced( even though I clearly checked the box Cashier's check or Money order) I am still waiting to get my money.
No longer am I sending COD for over $5,000 and also I would need a faxed copy of the Cahier's check before the item is shipped. TOO many stolen documents and fraud out there....
Where's my money Fed-Ex...
Im calling again now..
Regards,
JOhn
I recently sent a COD $19,125. Fed-ex collected a regular check that bounced( even though I clearly checked the box Cashier's check or Money order) I am still waiting to get my money.
No longer am I sending COD for over $5,000 and also I would need a faxed copy of the Cahier's check before the item is shipped. TOO many stolen documents and fraud out there....
Where's my money Fed-Ex...
Im calling again now..
Regards,
JOhn
Quote:
John-
Don't rely on a fax copy. It's too easy to fax either a fraudulent check, or to "return" a cashiers check after they send the fax. I've got burned once this way. My policy now is, "sure, fax me a copy of the check, and I'll fax you a picture of the equipment". http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif With services like Paypal and the other escrow services, I can't find a valid reason to use COD anymore.
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Steve
Visit our dedicated home theater, The City Cinema.
| Originally posted by abigpicture: No longer am I sending COD for over $5,000 and also I would need a faxed copy of the Cahier's check before the item is shipped. TOO many stolen documents and fraud out there.... |
Don't rely on a fax copy. It's too easy to fax either a fraudulent check, or to "return" a cashiers check after they send the fax. I've got burned once this way. My policy now is, "sure, fax me a copy of the check, and I'll fax you a picture of the equipment". http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif With services like Paypal and the other escrow services, I can't find a valid reason to use COD anymore.
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Steve
Visit our dedicated home theater, The City Cinema.
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good point....Steve....
No more COD's
thanks
JOhn
No more COD's
thanks
JOhn
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UPS ground shipments are much more likely to be damaged than air shipments. I am sure there is no policy like the one Fed/ex has as I have collected on an expensive electronics claim last year. However, this is not to say that you would have had an easier time collecting from them either. UPS insurance would have covered the claim, they would have just tried to blame you so that they could get out of paying. But in the end, you would be paid. None of the major shippers are that good with insurance. Fed/ex will pay you as well. You are going to have to take them to court. Cancel your account and use another shipper. What do you have to lose? Ask the next company upfront what there policy is. Make sure you obtain the information from someone higher up the management structure so that you have someone to hold accountable. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Life has enough obstacles without being ripped off from a major company.
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Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
Does anybody know if this new Fed-ex policy also applies to other shippers? I have been asked before at the US Post Office whether the contents of my item includes glass (or any sort of lens). I am assuming the lens of the projector would be included in this type of shipment. If they were to break, I was lead to believe that the USPS insurance policy would NOT cover this. Does this not make sense?
Does that mean that insurance through shippers only covers LOST shipments? What do they do with damaged shipments? I had a subwoofer damaged during shipping before, and I think UPS was going to send it to some sort of repair facility to see if they could just fix it and send the repaired unit back to me. What is up with that?
How was the plasma panel damaged? Was it due to too much shaking and banging around or was the shipping case actually damaged? If the case was damaged during shipping, I think you'd have a much easier time claiming your loss, but if it was poorly packaged (which I don't why it would be with such a high profile item) they may use that against you.
As for CODs, they suck pretty hard. I was shipped something COD, and picked up the item without even paying. I ended up mailing the guy the money order via mail after receiving the item, but the UPS guy just dropped off the package and left!
Does that mean that insurance through shippers only covers LOST shipments? What do they do with damaged shipments? I had a subwoofer damaged during shipping before, and I think UPS was going to send it to some sort of repair facility to see if they could just fix it and send the repaired unit back to me. What is up with that?
How was the plasma panel damaged? Was it due to too much shaking and banging around or was the shipping case actually damaged? If the case was damaged during shipping, I think you'd have a much easier time claiming your loss, but if it was poorly packaged (which I don't why it would be with such a high profile item) they may use that against you.
As for CODs, they suck pretty hard. I was shipped something COD, and picked up the item without even paying. I ended up mailing the guy the money order via mail after receiving the item, but the UPS guy just dropped off the package and left!
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Quote:
Yes Mike,
We are talking about the same thing. But my additional point was that with our fed-ex account we don't get charged days latter after the package has been delivered safely.
I am not saying that it definitely gets them out of hot water, but because they haven't recieved funding until afterwards it puts a legal wrinkle on the situation. Whereas if they get paid up front, that is as good as a handshake to insure the high dollar item.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. My Vegas annalogy was simply to point out another situation where someone looks the other way while it makes them money and only takes the process seriously when it is to their advantage.
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The Mothership is now boarding.
[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 04-16-2001).]
| Originally posted by M NEWMAN: Right, Mr wiggles, That was my main point (about charging and accepting the charge under the premise that they were actually covering it). While you make a good analogy about the gambling, it doesn't quite fit the profile of this situation, because (at least in my simple mind) we've requested a service, they appear to have accepted said request in exchange for legal tender, then refused said protection in the event of actual occurrance that the protection was intended to cover, and only then made it obvious that it was never intended to be covered in the 1st place. This, to me, is simply fraudulent. It's like if I bought insurance to cover my body on a vacation, had an arm get chopped off during the vacation, THEN find out that arms, legs, butts, and any other body parts are not covered, when that was the coverage I had specifically asked for in the 1st place! Mike |
We are talking about the same thing. But my additional point was that with our fed-ex account we don't get charged days latter after the package has been delivered safely.
I am not saying that it definitely gets them out of hot water, but because they haven't recieved funding until afterwards it puts a legal wrinkle on the situation. Whereas if they get paid up front, that is as good as a handshake to insure the high dollar item.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. My Vegas annalogy was simply to point out another situation where someone looks the other way while it makes them money and only takes the process seriously when it is to their advantage.
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The Mothership is now boarding.
[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Actually now that Fedex owns RPS, things have gotten much much worse.
This example actually happened to a friend who is in the computer business.
He shipped a high end 19 inch monitor to a customer. It never got there.
Fedex replaced the monitor with an ultra low end 17 inch piece of junk.
I believe the only company that insures for face value is the
US postal service.
This example actually happened to a friend who is in the computer business.
He shipped a high end 19 inch monitor to a customer. It never got there.
Fedex replaced the monitor with an ultra low end 17 inch piece of junk.
I believe the only company that insures for face value is the
US postal service.
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I shipped an ISCO lens USPS and when the lady behind the counter asked me what it was, I said glass. When she asked what kind of glass, I said it was a projector lens. I insured it for $1,000 without a problem.
FedEx ground is now run by the subhumans at RPS. I would go out of my way to avoid FedEx ground. I would never buy from someone who would only ship to me FedEx ground either.
FedEx ground is now run by the subhumans at RPS. I would go out of my way to avoid FedEx ground. I would never buy from someone who would only ship to me FedEx ground either.
Hi Halycon,
It was shipped with the factory packaging (pretty darn rugged) - new in box.
Mr. Wiggles, Now I understand what you're trying to say (about looking the other way, and money timing loophole), however, since we have a billable account and they continue to happily accept payment for things they never intend to pay for, should something happen, and the fact that signing on the line our intent to pay for services rendered in the near future, should constitute an iron clad transaction. Regardless of when the actual monies exchanged hands, it would seem to me that fraud has already occurred simply by the implication that coverage WILL be granted in the event of an occurence warranting re-imbursment of lost/damaged items. Look at it this way; when the police do a drug sting to nab an alledged buyer/dealer, they are able to arrest said individual just on the verbal agreement that that person will buy the sting's drugs for "x" amount of $. It's more of a guarantee in court convictions for money to actually change hands, but as far as I know, that's not a requirement for an arrest. That being said, here we have a legal transaction (as opposed to an illegal one) that has a written promise to pay (from us), that is and has been collected in return for service implied through the acceptance of legal tender. I don't give a hoot about the fine print, that transaction shouldn't even be allowed to occur without some obvious disclaimer that there will be no return for your money. Better still, since you must fill out the box contents, there should be an automatic denial for coverage of things that are not covered. Nuff rambling, some attorney jump on and correct me or side with me on this stuff
Mike
It was shipped with the factory packaging (pretty darn rugged) - new in box.
Mr. Wiggles, Now I understand what you're trying to say (about looking the other way, and money timing loophole), however, since we have a billable account and they continue to happily accept payment for things they never intend to pay for, should something happen, and the fact that signing on the line our intent to pay for services rendered in the near future, should constitute an iron clad transaction. Regardless of when the actual monies exchanged hands, it would seem to me that fraud has already occurred simply by the implication that coverage WILL be granted in the event of an occurence warranting re-imbursment of lost/damaged items. Look at it this way; when the police do a drug sting to nab an alledged buyer/dealer, they are able to arrest said individual just on the verbal agreement that that person will buy the sting's drugs for "x" amount of $. It's more of a guarantee in court convictions for money to actually change hands, but as far as I know, that's not a requirement for an arrest. That being said, here we have a legal transaction (as opposed to an illegal one) that has a written promise to pay (from us), that is and has been collected in return for service implied through the acceptance of legal tender. I don't give a hoot about the fine print, that transaction shouldn't even be allowed to occur without some obvious disclaimer that there will be no return for your money. Better still, since you must fill out the box contents, there should be an automatic denial for coverage of things that are not covered. Nuff rambling, some attorney jump on and correct me or side with me on this stuff
Mike
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Mike:
Maybe this will help.
A few months back we ordered a PowerPlant and at the same time two Richard Gray Power Company devices. We were honest with both companies and told them we wanted to try them out. We gave them our credit card (which they both charged) and shipped them to us.
We were expecting to be out of town when the shipments would arrive. So we put a large 8.5" x 11.0" sign on the front door "LEAVE PACKAGES IN THE SHED".
They shipped via UPS (both of them from different companies). They did not put them in the shed. We had two days or horrendous rain. The packages were literally falling apart when we returned.
I called both companies. They said, do not open it, put it in a bag and we'll have them come out.
It took these two companies a while but they won against UPS.
I'll bet you can win against Fed EX.
BTW, next time you talk to them let them know I'll be extra careful about using them for anything from here on out.
I hope you get your money and don't quit.
I agree with the comments of taking them to court. If you sue them, being a large company it will cost them a small fortune. Lawyers really love defending large companies ($$$$$).
Cut them no slack.
Chuck
Maybe this will help.
A few months back we ordered a PowerPlant and at the same time two Richard Gray Power Company devices. We were honest with both companies and told them we wanted to try them out. We gave them our credit card (which they both charged) and shipped them to us.
We were expecting to be out of town when the shipments would arrive. So we put a large 8.5" x 11.0" sign on the front door "LEAVE PACKAGES IN THE SHED".
They shipped via UPS (both of them from different companies). They did not put them in the shed. We had two days or horrendous rain. The packages were literally falling apart when we returned.
I called both companies. They said, do not open it, put it in a bag and we'll have them come out.
It took these two companies a while but they won against UPS.
I'll bet you can win against Fed EX.
BTW, next time you talk to them let them know I'll be extra careful about using them for anything from here on out.
I hope you get your money and don't quit.
I agree with the comments of taking them to court. If you sue them, being a large company it will cost them a small fortune. Lawyers really love defending large companies ($$$$$).
Cut them no slack.
Chuck
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I agree that they should cough up the money for your lost shipment. However, how much have you paid for all of the extra non-applicable insurance up to this point? If it is greater than or equal to the cost of your loss maybe you could get those monies back since you were never insured anyways.
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