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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's time to clear the air and ask for the support of true DIY'ers. It matters not what route you take to get there, this is an issue that affects those such as myself who give exceptional amounts of time and effort to others, only to be accused of "promoting" in a vague and obstensive way.


My recent thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3&page=1&pp=30


...........was closed down on the pretext that I was promoting something as if for sale. What a complete crock. Please, I invite anyone with even a slightly unbiased mind to read that thread, and then determine for yourself if I ever suggested even remotely that someone buy something from me, or that I was setting up a situation where I was to profit from anyone on AVS.


It isn't there, only a few accusations by the regular dissenters, to which I had to respond to.


The DIY level of results I showed were more than startling, they gave notice that the upcoming "Ambient Light" Black screen solutions are not the only way to achieve results many can accept without spending $3000.00. But nowhere did I state such, it was others who piped in with the opinion that that was my goal to do so. My intent was to show that properly matched PJ choices could, when combined with Light Fusion coated with MMud-SE, deliver ambient light performance that was far better than what has come before IN A DIY APPLICATION.


So what of that? Are we all not trying to deliver up DIY solutions that rival or surpass many manufactured screens? Is the purpose of the DIY forum solely to encourage mediocre results? If great results impact the "Selling" intentions of others, am I or anyone the guilty of promoting?


There is most definitely something wrong when our DIY Forum gets assailed by those who have nothing to do themselves with DIY projects. Only through the posted efforts of the true DIY advocates that abound on here will a general consensus be presented and hopefully acknowledged by the Forum moderators. Those who do in fact have motive to keep DIY'ers grounded in the mundane need to leave DIY alone and focus their attention elseware...we where selling is conspiculously tolerated.


If I've helped you out, contributed to your project, and you've been in anyway observant of the drubbing I continually take for my efforts, then speak up! Review my last thread. Venture you opinion, pro or con.

Keep it civil, but tell it like it is and how you see things.


DIY'ers who actually focus on a application, get it done, and are satisfied often come on and then disappear into bliss. Those who get the "Bug" remain and aspire to improve the "mousetrap". Those with a personal Axe to grind disrupt the flow of info by twisting the intent of threads, Flaming or baiting to get a response so as to disrupt the flow of info/help, and by doing so, hoping to render them almost useless by discouraging participation.


Don't let them get away with such antics!


The "Report a Post" option isn't used nearly enough by all of you, or such actions would be nipped in the bud. Instead, it has only been used by those wanting to stifle creativity and stymie efforts that might affect their own "Bottom Line".


If any of you who regularly participate on DIY will deign to respond to this request for "involvement", then perhaps some consensus of opinion that is strongly shown will help put everything in it's proper perspective. Or it might make no difference at all. But doing nothing will only serve to show that this Forum isn't about helping, but only about "getting".


I've stated privately to the Mods, before the closing of the thread above, that if I in any way was found guilty of actively promoting the sale of any of my own work (NOT my "ideas") to AVS'ers, I'd accept an immediate and PERMANENT banishment. I asked Alan himself for clarification of exactly what I was "promoting" and where I was guilty of such? The response? None. Yet the thread was closed for supposedly exactly that, negating the potential for many to be able to realize good results with a PJ and DIY screen combo that cost less than almost any of the "special" screens do alone. Strangley enough, I'm still here. So something is decidedly amiss that has nothing to do with what I posted, just how a few influential "others" received it.

It's up to you all to make your opinions known. A lack of doing so will speak of too many "not caring" enough about why this DIY Forum exists, and the willingness to protect the ideals behind DIY efforts in general.


On the reverse, I state now that if the posted 'negative' opinions even reach 25% of the total, I'll also leave this Forum to it's own future, whatever is may turn out to be. I've contributed over two years of almost non-stop effort toward helping others. Many can and are already taking up considerable slack. My presence is certainly not going to make or break DIY on AVS, but all the same, I'm not going to waste time fighting the Establishment when it seems so obviously biased toward those with something to lose financially by there being so very many going the DIY route.


If at anytime I was truly guilty of what I'm being constantly accused of, it would have come out long ago, and driven me from sight. Others do such daily on AVS on many MANY different threads on almost every Forum with seeming impunity. Why/ because there is no motive for others to complain if they are receiving special attention in the process. I provide loads of special attention for NO GAIN yet get ostercized unfairly. A Double Standard exists and it poisions the potential of DIY for many.



Speak up, or be silent. It will soon be apparent how many really feel DIY Screens is the place to habitate or avoid. But either way, accept the end results as being indicative of what the true feelings and proposed intent of those on this DIY Forum should be. Quite frankly, my efforts and any decision to remain so as to continue to help others will depend on the results of whatever is ventured. If this Thread is ignored, then that will say all that needs to be said. If it is deleted, then that too will speak volumes. If I go the way of the Sunset at the prodding of the Mods, then somebody carry on. Please.


Let me state lastly that I'm not seeking vindication, nor any "propers" at the expense of the Mods on this Forum. I only want some justification for continuing on for the next 2-3 years.
 

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Well, for one, I've felt that this forum is very helpful, and one of the few where I check it daily, if not hourly in cases where I have a pressing question. I for one would hate to see you leave, as I would rather my questions be answered by someone with experience in the subject than a newbie that bought their first projector last week. I don't offer advice often, but I would like to offer my support, in that I don't believe you have intended to appear as marketing a product. At worst I would suggest you have been promoting a recipe. I haven't seen you out and out say, come and buy this from me so I can make a buck. But I can see how some comments such as the following one can be misconstrued, though that may not have been your intent.
Quote:
Or....., I've shipped several Jars about via FedEx, even Overseas (...and in "these" times, no less...) so "Getting it there" to another interested AVS'er via cheap Ground Frieght is no real task.
There was one other minor comment about goo, but that was addressed in the following thread. Otherwise, I can't see that anything you said before page three was advertising something you made for sale. Though I suppose that could be construed from the fact that the images you posted were from commercial installations. But then, as in the example below, if someone likes the fruits of your labour enough to purchase it, then I can understand your desire to let people know. That deserves a pat on the back, and a good job, well done.


I have a story to tell that might put this in perspective for some people: Over Christmas I had made some goodies that were soooo sinful. Several persons asked for the recipe which I happily handed over to them with wishes of good luck, and asked them to call me if they had any problems. As I created this recipe from experimentation with two or three others, it was not available from a cookbook. I did get a call or two from folks that had had problems with the recipe I gave them. I offered some advice (perhaps it was their brand of margarine, or ground versus dried spice). If anyone asked I would have made up an uncooked batch for them to take home and bake (as they were all relatives anyway).

I'm sure your mothers have done this a time or two with their recipes. I know my mother get visitors she's had over for supper take a loaf of her homemade bread home with them (And yes they paid her for it.) Did I do this with the intent to make a buck? No, I wouldn't have the time it takes to make them to sell anyway. Did it help my reputation and increase sales at the next bake sale I had Items in? Possibly, but people knew I had baking skills before the occasion as well.

To compare what I made to your local bakery / grocery product is not contest, mine is superior. The next best thing to making it yourself is to buy the unbaked premade mix from the grocery and doing it that way. But mine is still better for several reasons. Anyone whose had homemade gingercookies (sometimes called gingersnaps, though mine don't snap, but are soft and chewy, gently rounded with a sparkly sugar coating.) over the storebought kind knows whereof I speak.

Am I trying to sell mine? No, but I feel very proud of myself when someone asks me to make them a batch and then pays me for the priviledge. I like to brag a little when that happens.

Does Everyone Bake? Hardly anyone these days. But I'm happy to pass the recipe and benefits of mistakes made in the past onto them.


Sound familiar? If the guy wants to help, let him help. What's the big deal? Cutting into your creativity is it, or your market share? Does your grandma get in a snit when the other ladies think a recipe is better than hers, or does she listen and offer that perhaps the addition of a bit of cinnamon might improve it still further? As a mother I have trouble understanding the squabbles on the forum, and fight the urge to referee as I would my own children. I understand the forums are not for snide comments of "grow up, what would your mother think!"


One last big BUT: I understand that this forum is sponsored by screen manufacturers, and sellers, and other companies making money off of advertising their product here. However, this IS the Do-It-Yourself screen forum. If you don't want people contemplating, learning and then doing it themselves (and thereby doing it themselves possibly for other persons, because if my mother likes my screen I WILL do one for her, and if her friend wants one, then I WILL do one for them, and I will be happy to pass along my results and experiences to others) then get rid of the DIY section, and boot any thread on the regular screen thread referring to such behaviour. The Do-It-Yourself people will find another place to congregate that will not directly influence the purchasing behavior of people on your boards.


I've said my piece and will go back to lurking shortly, but MM if you leave, let me know where you'll be hanging your hat, as your experience is valuable to many persons.
 

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Just remember that this is a private commercial forum and it relies on advertising and sponsors for its survival. The owners/mods will always censor/curtail any topics that borders on marketing that could be bad for those advertisers/sponsors. Hurting the bottom dollar of any advertiser/sponsor is always bad for business.
 

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i've been lurking on this board for some time now... and i must say MM that in many ways i've found that what you said (or the way you've said it) can be rather offensive to some people. fortunately i'm in the computer technology field i'm familiar with what some people would consider you to be... a 'know it all'. now i've read enough to know that you have a wealth of knowledge to share, but in doing so you've rubbed a lot of DIY's the wrong say... and some of you're comments which were originally intended to be jokin'... instead made us feel stupid. at the same time, there are some other experts on this board who are just as stubborn in their own beliefs/theories as you... and i don't think they'll bend to your way of thinking on the subject and neither will you. but, we are asking you guys to keep it to a minimum... stick to why you think a particular theory might be relevant rather than then cutting other folks down.


having said that... i do admit that the technical solutions and paint combinations that MM has contributed make the most sense to me.


i have used the MM topcoat over a SM basecoat on standard 4x8 drywall and have found the finished product to be pleasing to my senses.


so i thank all those differing opinions for helping me come to a conclusion on what would work best for me.
 

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In the final post Alan Gougar closed the thread and mentioned marketing and business as the reasons. I reread the thread and the only reference to marketing and business was made by an accusation from another member. In post 64 Alan said "keep the marketing out of this" in reference to the naming of a HVLP spray gun. Am I to beleive that in a DIY forum I can't ask what tools to use to acheive the results I want? Hopefully Alan Gougar will respond and let us newbies know what's going on here at AVS because personally, I'm at a loss.
 

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Excellent points all around, Ggirl.


I for one would surely like to see a clear clarification from the Mods on both the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law." Though it's really just a tiny percentage of the overall traffic on this forum, debates over what constitutes "marketing" (and who is/isn't doing it) crop up far too often for my taste.


The way I see it, the prohibition exists for two reasons:


1) To prevent the forum from being flooded by spammers posting classified ads

2) To give the users some sense of confidence that the information presented is unbiased by motivations of personal profit


I don't know -- maybe MMan has some financial interest in Behr, Inc. and everything he's ever posted is a thinly-veiled attempt to get people to buy more paint. :rolleyes: But have I ever seen him engage in "the commercial processes involved in promoting and selling and distributing a product or service?" No.


Yes, he promotes. Sometimes he even distributes. But in my eyes it is not a "commercial process" in any significant sense. Anyone who's read more than a couple of his posts should know that he is an exuberant fellow who is not prone to timidity or understatement. Maybe his brash evangelism rubs some people the wrong way, but I've yet to see any of those who loudly complain actually offer any substantive alternatives or ideas.


That being said ... sometimes a thread needs to be put out of its misery. ("Light con-Fusion" was one of those, for example, while "Light Fusion-SE" was not. Yet, at least.)
 

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First off I do not hang out in this forum and therefore do not read the threads. If something was closed it was closed because it was reported.

MississippiMan & KBK both have their ajendas being competitors & both offering service and report each other on a regular basis. We are very busy and do not have the time to read these long rants. If someone has an issue please PM us with a brief 2 to 3 sentance explanation not 6 paragraphs.


thank you.
 

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I am a long time DIYer and I think you are always going to find a fundamental problem when you get into discussions about DIY. The bottom line is that on a forum like this, that is supported by advertisers and we are taking their business away by Doing it Ourselves. We will always be limited by this escpecially if we really want to push the limits of DIY. I have kind of faded away from here because I see as we get deeper into some of these things I feel it is not in the best interests of this website to persue. This community has grown expotentially and there are alot of very able people participating in this forum that can take this way beyond paint on a wall. I respect Alan and crew for the community they have built here, but it is a business and probably the most successfull internet marketing strategy I have seen. Maybe its time to start a DIY HT website. I have considered it to be honest, as basically my entire theater is DIY and saved me Thousands of $$. That is just my take, I don't think it would be in the interest of this website to have a free for all full on DIY forum Like DIYAudio where anything goes.


313
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mission313
The bottom line is that on a forum like this, that is supported by advertisers and we are taking their business away by Doing it Ourselves. We will always be limited by this escpecially if we really want to push the limits of DIY.
My point exactly...here is a perfect example...


What do you think would happen if I were to come up with a paint mix (from paint found in any hardware store) that could give you the same effects and gain as a Firehawk??? And what if I did not sell, charge, or even ask for donations for the formula??? Do you think Stewart would be happy to see the formula posted on a site that they pay thousands of $$$ to advertise in???


Sound far fetched??? I can guarantee that with enough mixing and experimenting, someone will find that magic formula. Just don't expect to see it publicized too long here.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyDora
My point exactly...here is a perfect example...


What do you think would happen if I were to come up with a paint mix (from paint found in any hardware store) that could give you the same effects and gain as a Firehawk??? And what if I did not sell, charge, or even ask for donations for the formula??? Do you think Stewart would be happy to see the formula posted on a site that they pay thousands of $$$ to advertise in???


Sound far fetched??? I can guarantee that with enough mixing and experimenting, someone will find that magic formula. Just don't expect to see it publicized too long here.
Then why have a DIY section at all? All DIY takes away from the professional screeners to some degree. I own a pj, with a DIY screen. If I did not have the DIY resources, I probably would have bought a ready-made professional screen, probably from one of the forum sponsors. So, the fact that any DIY info is posted has to hurt the sponsors in some regard.


Like GadgetGirl said, either don't have a DIY section, or have it full throttle, even if someone comes up wtihe Firehawk formula.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer
Then why have a DIY section at all?
Because most manufacturers (advertisers) consider DIY inferior and will never compete with their products...but if they did, and some of them do, they will raise hell.
 

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Here is one point to consider...


I worked for newspapers and magazines for almost 35 years in the editorial side (the side that writes stories) and when we were putting issues ready for print, the stories were always placed last. The ads were placed first and the stories would fill the holes left. If a story did not fit the "hole" then the story would have to be cut (edited) to fit. Never did I see an AD shrunk/deleted to make room for a story.


As an old editor of mine always told me..."Son, stories fill the holes left behind by lazy advertising sales."
 

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In the 2 years or so that I've been on this forum, I have nothing but good things to say about MMan's contributions to this DIY forum. It is unfortunate that a few others up north, no names mentioned, have to give him a bad name. He has been nothing but helpful to others trying to take the DIY route, and I see nothing wrong with the Thread that was removed. I really wish people would mind their own business and let us who appreciate the advice learn and grow for DIY methods.


If anything, the people that should have their hands slapped are the ones that are trying to act like hall monitors and nark to the moderators with false claims.


I used to really like this forum, but 6 months ago I stopped hanging out here and lived over at my speaker mfg's board. I see why I left back then, what a shame.
 

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So what exactly is the point of this thread? That MM felt he was wronged in some way and if everyone doesn't rally around, he's going to leave? Personally, I think everyone needs to chill and park their ego at the door. The DIY Screens forum has been going strong for several years and I have not seen any overt censorship of any kind. If there's to be a call for action, I would think it would be to eliminate all of the [email protected] and mudslinging that flares up on a regular basis here.

re: thread being closed

It seems to me that Alan was specifically addressing the post about the spray gun. Specific location, model, and price. If that had been removed, I would suspect the thread would have stayed alive. However, I would speculate that MM's retort probably forced the quick and prompt locking of the thread.

re:forum rules and exceptions

The forum rules prohibiting marketing are in place for a number of reasons. Some of which have nothing to do with the advertisers for this site. I think the line is drawn at making sure there is no explicit self-promotion and mention of pricing. If you look at all the posts in this forum, it is filled with formulas and mentions of specific brands. And how many times has MMud been mentioned before this thread? All of those discussions have been allowed to stand.


As for the question of double-standards, sure there is. The owners of this forum can advertise whatever they'd like. And what's wrong with that? Who's paying to keep this forum up and running, especially with the amount of traffic that it gets? And I'm sure there are threads out there that have advertising that aren't locked. But not necessarily because they're allowed, just because they haven't been noticed.

re:bullseye on MM

I really don't think the thread was locked because the mods thought it was marketing by MM. However, I believe it was specifically his actions in that thread that caused it to be locked. Why was it even noticed in the first place? Probably because the thread was reported. Why was it reported? That answer is probably best left for another discussion. Since Alan mentioned that he doesn't frequent this forum that often, that would seem to be the case.


I have not seen any excessive locking of threads. There haven't been a lot of users banned from the forum. There hasn't been ultimatums laid down telling people to stop discussing the development of formula xyz. The information is flowing in this forum as it always has been. It can definitely be made better, but I don't think this particular concern is what needs to be addressed.
 

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Sirquack

I was going to stay out of this until I didn't here my name being mentioned :)


I am glad you didn't mention names though :) I can assure you one thing I am no hall monitor !! AND I have never reported a post yet and probably never will, but your hero has reported many ,and is one of the most prolific reporters of threads on the whole avs forum never mind the old DIY forum .


I Would think one would have to be pretty thick to think that Alan had issues with someone stating where one could buy a spray gun . Ever think there is the possibility that the statements of a pro screen seller stating that his screen that he sells everyday is better than the other screensand then mentioning companies had anything to do with it .


I think the many screen shots and the off handed comments to Alan had something to do as well with the locked down thread .


ONLY one person had said that alan had issues with the spray gun post and it was not Alan who said it !! It was MM making that statement trying to deflect responsibility !! and it worked some people with short attention spans were successfully distracted .


I know MM has contributed great time and effort here , and has helped many in making MM SCREENS , but there are and WERE many others as well and many have been badgered or bullied out of sharing their ideas or efforts here anymore . That in


MM you have the most leeway of any screen companies here ! There are some simple rules though , do not promote your product or services here or if so do it subtlety like you have been :) the worst that can happen is a few of your posts get deleted MM and you build up a LITTLE of a cult following, a win win situation.


MM as you have said in the past there is no such thing as bad publicity so good luck


I am an avid promoter of diy as anybody here !! I have made many screens and tried many different variations as well as some commercial screens , a lot of other people have here as well and most of any other idea's that used to be posted here other than mm's was attacked !! that is not diy .


I donate a lot of time in various charities , as well I work on habitat for humanity projects , but I do not continually brag about my selfless acts when I am there , and I would be embarrassed to advertise my building business while I am donating time with other professionals on a project like that . I would find it pathetic !! as I do MM's selfless pleas here with the continually competitive nature he has with any and all screens that could possibly compete with any of his many screen promos .


I must say I find this thread only serves one purpose and that is for MM to try vindicate himself here, so i'll let the rally continue.




Bruce
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce can
I Would think one would have to be pretty thick to think that Alan had issues with someone stating where one could buy a spray gun . Ever think there is the possibility that the statements of a pro screen seller stating that his screen that he sells everyday is better than the other screensand then mentioning companies had anything to do with it .


I think the many screen shots and the off handed comments to Alan had something to do as well with the locked down thread .


ONLY one person had said that alan had issues with the spray gun post and it was not Alan who said it !! It was MM making that statement trying to deflect responsibility !! and it worked some people with short attention spans were successfully distracted .
I guess the comment about being thick and having a short attention span is directed at me, since I stated that it was my opinion that the mod had a problem with the spray gun info? Well, I'll still stand by my comment until Alan says otherwise. And not because of something MM had mentioned, but because that was the most "explicit" marketing post in that thread and Alan came in to comment immediately after that. I've had my differences with MM as well, but that has no bearing on the topic at hand.


This very thread that MM started is because he felt he has been censured for marketing, which is what you are saying as well. And I'm saying that was not what prompted the thread to be locked.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
In an attempt to address the same issues as in my recently closed Thread, I'll relate specific methods and materials used in another New Thread very soon , post images of the end results, and leave the door open for a sensible discourse on the related issues. Some incredible results await, for I've been a busy Bee.


For the present, if someone wants specific info on a application in the form of prices and availability of ANY materials, links to existing posts with that info will be published. We are presently in a "Don't Ask...Don't Tell" society. And it's a Court Martial offense to buck the rules.


So, if the "Letter of the Law" is to be followed, then no more can anyone post where to buy paint, Plywood, DoAble Boards, Parkland Plastics Polywall, Spray Guns, Rollers, Mylar, Velvet, No more relating as to where to purchase Blackout Cloth. No more info on where to acquire widgets :rolleyes: ...in short, NO mention of any product not listed as being sold on AVS is allowed on this DIY Forum. I pity the poor boys over in the Home Theater Builder Forum, for now if the rules are applied with equal fairness all around, everything everywhere related to steering others to where to acquire materials, and of course equipment of all kinds, will be headed for the Tank. No more Home made Subs. No more relating as to where to buy a Mfg Screen that isn't advertised on AVS.


This will drastically increase the frustration factor for Newbees, as well as make far more work for me and everybody else with a DIY thread, or any thread that aspires to help relate something to others that depends on the acquisition of materials from various sources.


Common sense should say that this isn't something that make any sense at all. If my success at promoting any or all my DIY applications is the catalyst that has brought all this to bear, then really, it was only waiting for somebody or something to stir up the pot.


I really don't, or cannot believe the mention of where to buy a "paint" or a "Spray Gun" is at the root of all the hubbub. Alan himself has requested that any member with an opinion on the matter to PM him with a "BRIEF" comment to that effect. This itself is very much a good idea if followed with care so as not to load his PM box up with rambling statements of dissatisfaction.


But the most telling statement of all made on this thread came from Alan himself. He didn't read the thread, he just responded to a "complaint" made by someone with something to lose by too much attention going elsewhere. And closed it down. How fair is that? You know that the "complaint" came from someone whose "business" is affected by a lack of attention. Yet that business has yet to bother to fork over a red cent for true advertising despite using AVS as a promotional sounding board for several years now.


I sell NOTHING to anybody on AVS for a dime's worth of profit. My instances of reporting any posts can be counted on two hands with three fingers left, over a three year span. Bruce can is speaking from his arse end and doesn't know a thing about what he's talking about. His words are only for effect. In all, I've reported about 6-7 posts over three years. Hardly the frequency I'm attributed with. Yet it is very believable that I'm reported on a whim simply because I have something to offer than makes the selling of many products an exercise in frustration should there be another, more affordable and perfectly viable option for DIY'ers to consider. That, and because by reporting me, others hope to both have me censured and discourage my involvement. Well, they can try, but they won't succeed.


I cannot express it any more plainly than that.


Mention was made, somewhat rightly, that I come off as a "Know it All". Ok, but it took many, many hours of reading, and even more hours of doing to be able to speak to others in that context so I cannot apologize for such behavior when it's directed at helping others. If others know "more" where are their posts? If they've done "more" helping, where are the "Thank yous"? Also, I learned on AVS some time ago that unless you speak with authority and conviction, no one ever listens anyway. I'm a "Doer" and I try to impart that work ethic in others. If that's an Evil premise to aspire to, then I'm bound for Hell in a handbasket. But fellas, I'm willing to make that trip as both Guide and Mentor. If that is pretentious of me to say and offer such, I'm betting that it is so only to a few.


It was also related that such DIY endeavors might drive away Mfg Sponsors. Yet PMs from Mods I've received have related that our supposed "impact' is so small it's not worth the bother for them to even notice, and has NO effect on AVS business as a whole. Unless of course someone reports me for some supposed reason. Then, I'm instantly guilty as charged.


DIY screens has been sequestered in it's own little space, obstensively to avoid such direct conflicts with those on "Screens" that strive to sell such every day. Yet those self same others from "abroad" feel it pertinent and necessary to come onto the DIY forum to disrupt, or report DIY threads and postings? Man, it cannot be both ways! Reporting such obvious excursions is only the right thing to do.


As was requested by Alan, make your opinions about these latest revelations about "marketing" known to him via a BRIEF PM Who though can blame him for dreading the response, for many others also dread having to wade though the muck just to find something worthwhile to read, let alone something to moderate or report. But to go so far as to close a thread on just the complaint of one individual's gripe without validating the complaint is beyond any stretch of the imagination. All it really says is that certain people can get their respective way here on the DIY Forum on merely a whim.


What a shame for us all.
 

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Gentlemen and Ladies,

(and those aspiring to become so)


Please, come together and join hands. Sing Kum-ba-yah. Let's all be friends! Failing that, cordial acquaintances. Failing that, attempt civility toward one another. Oh fer' cryin' out loud! Y'all git along or I'll whup ya! Oooh! Here's a thought: How about non-confrontational opinionation? For the grammatically challenged: Say what you want to express without mentioning names (or saying "I'm not mentioning names."...hint...hint...hint (damnable eejits ) I praise in highest regard those who have spent so much of their time and energy helping their fellow DIYers to improve their HTs without demand of so much as a "Thank You." We lurkers are all in your debt. Please, please keep this forum as free from politics and personal grievances as possible. I am excited by the work that has been shared by all posters in this forum. Don't dilute the content with ego and grandstanding, it detracts from everything that can be gained from this wonderful venue.
 

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MM,


Do you honestly believe that all DIY'rs are not having an effect on AVS's sponsor/advertisers bottom line??? No offense, but get real.


You and a few other other "Master DIY'rs" (yes, I consider you to be a master at this) are probably responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars of lost revenue for them.


Let's say that the average cost for a screen is $1000 (I know some are lower but some a very much more)...look at the last years worth of threads and see how many people have decided to go DIY instead of buying a commercial product...$100,000 is a very modest estimate.


I agree that rules are enforced differently at various levels here. You have to remember that certain sponsors/advertisers here are directly responsible in selling DIY theater builders their parts. If Home Depot/Lowes was a sponsor/advertiser then we would never have this problem.


More and more ads are appearing on AVS. A private subscription club was enacted for more revenue and I would not be suprised if the person that reported you was a paying member or sponsor.


I can tell you that if you were to leave and go elsewhere, you would be followed by lots of people that still need to save $$$ and need your valuable information.
 
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