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am totally confused and yet bought the Canon HV30 1080I, with out doing my homework.

2789 Views 41 Replies 7 Participants Last post by zapper, Jan 1, 2009

zapper

Discussion Starter · Dec 28, 2008

I am totally confused and yet bought the Canon HV30 1080I, with out doing my homework.

My Video displays are: 1. Samsung 65 DLP 1080I

2. Sanyo PLV2000 LCD 1080P front projector with a 100 screen

My main PC is a Vista is a 32 bit with the following,

1. 2.40 gigahertz Amd Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core

2. 128 Kilobyte primary memory cache

3. 512 Kilobtye secondary memory cache

4. 2046 megabytes installed memory

5. Display, Radeon X1650 Series, handles HD

6. Monitor Xerox XG-70D highest display 1280 X 1024

Bought but not opened yet Nvidia Geforce 9800 GT oc 512, in the event that I need a better graphics card, for faster rendering and resolution and then dawn on me if my monitor can only do 1280 X 1024 what is the difference of buying the new graphics card, my monitor would not be able to handle it.

Would be playing my movies 80% on the 1080I display mentioned above, currently downloading Pinnacle Studio 12 which does HD burning (1980 X 1080) as long as I have a BL burner ( another mistake) don't have one or have a better camcorder (AVCHD another mistake on my part).

How can I correct this if I can, for those who have the Canon HV20 or HV30 how or you guy's burning the software and which editing software and Computer speed, really don't care about the Camcorder that can do 1080P belief more cost and not able to store it as tape cams.

Any suggestions, would appreciate feedbacks Good ones or Bad ones. How can I correct my own mess at this time with this camcoder.

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1 - 20 of 42 Posts

bigbarney

· #2 · Dec 28, 2008

Well first... contrary to what you may have read on THIS particular site, avchd is not better and the tape based HV30 is not a bad cam. In fact the "old fashioned" HV20 is STILL being used as a yardstick to measure quality in today's avchd cams and tape based mpeg2 is what the pro arena is using... and will continue to use for some time in the future.

What IS better about today's cams (depending on which way you look at it) is the capturing media. Hard drives and flash media do make the job easier and are a lot more efficient. The avchd itself... well.... although it's a more efficient codec, it's also a much more difficult codec to handle.

Sooo.... rest assured that the HV30 was NOT a bad choice and you will get years of enjoyment from it.

The computer you have while not the fastest in the world is fine for editing that way it is.... even the monitor. The vid card you bought can be returned if you wish... or used.... it won't make a huge difference. In fact you may want to return the card and pick up a BD burner instead because you WILL find a small stumbling block here.

Most BD players will handle what is known as "AVCHD disks" which is avchd written to dvd media (which holds about 30minutes on a SL disk)... but you have a MPEG2 based cam which means you will have to transcode everything over to avchd.... takes time and there is a quality loss. You can "fool" these players by writing mpeg2 to a avchd disk in a avchd wrapper, but you can't do menus or anything like that.

A BD burner will allow you to write mpeg2 to a BD disk complete with menus and what ever else you want and you can do it directly with no transcoding since MPEG2 is part of the BD spec. What is also part of the BD spec.... is 1440x1080. You don't have to re render everything to 1920x1080 if you do not wish. In fact it's a waste of time and you won't see any improvement. Is 1920x1080 any better than 1440x1080? Not really. Compare the HV30 with a 1920x1080 cam and you won't see any difference.

Pinnacle studio is a basic piece of software and it works but I hesitate to say it's the one for you. One of the main reasons for this the way it captures. You didn't say what you're using for a playback device but if it's the PS3 then you may want to rethink the Pinnacle studio idea. The PS3 is quite capable of playing back raw M2T files copied to disk and it is most common to capture your work from the HV30 to the computer as M2T.... Studio however captures as M2V with a separate WAV audio file.

I would suggest Sony Vegas... either the pro addition or the cheaper Platinum edition.

By the way.... if you happen to have the PS3, you may not even need to burn disks (depending on what you want). But the PS3 in combination with this little streamer program (see below)... you can STREAM just about anything from your computer to the PS3. It basically turns the PS3 into a full media server

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/PS3_Media_Server

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flintyplus

· #3 · Dec 28, 2008

The only trouble with pinnacle 12 apart from its temperment is the fact it will make blue ray discs but not with window menus like some other software including my laptops built in software which is why i use the laptop for my bd discs.

bigbarney

· #4 · Dec 28, 2008

Here are some things you CAN'T do with avchd cams:

Quote:
There are also capture options that tape presents that can't be done with avchd. With HDVsplit for example I can capture as one long tape and then scene split the file AFTER capture. This is great for archiving purposes. You can also split your scenes and automatically label them with the time/date shot which is great for sorting at a later time. If you have the proper software you can also use the label (which is the time/date in this case) and create a subtitle track on your disks (which can be turned on/off with the subtitle button on your remote) that will display time/date of each clip. These are things not easily done with avchd. Avchd may give you a slight edge on file efficiency but you loose quite a few other options in the process.

My steps for creating a switchable on/off subtitle track with the time/date of each clip:

Quote:
I do this with HDVsplit, Sony Vegas Pro, and Excalibur plugin for Vegas.

Capture with HDVsplit and set it to label each clip with the time/date method of your liking. Import your clips to Vegas, then use the "quick labels" feature in Excalibur to create a transparent label of title of each clip (or in other words the time/date). Excalibur will do this and even include region markers. Then use the "export regions as subtitle" script which is included in Vegas. This will export the time/date as a subtitle which then can be imported to DVDa and used in the subtitle track.

One note: HDVsplit does tend to be a little restrictive in how you set up your time/date format. I like to set it up as

month/day/year hour:minute:second

But HDV split won't allow you to use

/ or

:

so instead I use

, and

;

and will then temporarily change the SUB extension to TXT after it is exported from Vegas. This way I can import it to MSWord, select what I want and do a blanket change... save.... and return the SUB extension.

I should also add one other note here... Excalibur will create a track above your main track containing the labels. If your main track has cross fades and such in it then Excalibur will also create a time/date track with cross fades to match those cross fades in your main track... BUT.... when exporting regions as subtitles, the cross faded sections will be ignored and you will have gaps in the time/date from one clip to another. You CAN avoid this by setting up your time/date track BEFORE doing any cross fading and such on your main track... but as you can imagine... that takes a bit of forethought.

osv

· #5 · Dec 28, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15395231

Here are some things you CAN'T do with avchd cams:

There are also capture options that tape presents that can't be done with avchd. With HDVsplit for example I can capture as one long tape and then scene split the file AFTER capture. This is great for archiving purposes. You can also split your scenes and automatically label them with the time/date shot which is great for sorting at a later time.

wrong.

avchd files are already scene split, it happens when the file is shot, and they are already numbered, there is no need to capture anything... because they are files, you can use any windows re-naming program you want on 'em.

tape is dead, it's unreliable and time-consuming, the future is clearly with solid-state recording.

osv

· #6 · Dec 28, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapper /forum/post/15394401

I am totally confused and yet bought the Canon HV30 1080I, with out doing my homework.

My Video displays are: 1. Samsung 65” DLP 1080I

2. Sanyo PLV2000 LCD 1080P front projector with a 100” screen

My main PC is a Vista is a 32 bit with the following,

1. 2.40 gigahertz Amd Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core

the hv30 is maybe the best choice for picture quality, if you have to edit on a slow computer.

if you are concerned about reliability, tape-based cameras are not the best way to go, but avchd would require a faster computer:

"there have been quite a few reports that the HV20 randomly drops out every now and then.

I myself have replaced my HV20 twice because of this issue. i tested with several different tape brands in both HD and standard versions... i used head cleaners and one HV20 actually started chewing tapes after 4 hours of use and two head cleanings....

However - It would seem that whatever brand of tape you are using when shooting HDV, the incidence of "dropouts" increases exponentialy the longer you shoot. It is an inherant problem with the "GOP" thing to make HDV work with tapes (never a stable medium).

If I get by with only 3 dropouts on a 60 minute tape on my XH - A1, I consider myself lucky...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/hdv2-cano...-dropouts.html

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bigbarney

· #7 · Dec 28, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by osv /forum/post/15397466

wrong.

avchd files are already scene split, it happens when the file is shot, and they are already numbered, there is no need to capture anything... because they are files, you can use any windows re-naming program you want on 'em.

tape is dead, it's unreliable and time-consuming, the future is clearly with solid-state recording.

You misunderstand what I am saying I already know that avchd files come scene split from the cam. What you CAN'T do with avchd is capture as a WHOLE file like you can with tape.

And you CAN'T automatically rename avchd files according to their internal data (the date/time they were shot). You CAN with tape. I cane scene split a tape and have it AUTOMATICALLY named with the time/date that it was shot according to date setting on the cam.

Once again OSV... you need to read.... or maybe it's too far over your head to understand?

bigbarney

· #8 · Dec 28, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by osv /forum/post/15397466

tape is dead,

Go to the FCP forum, the Vegas forum, and/or the PP forum and say that. Be sure to let me know how many people call you crazy

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osv

· #9 · Dec 28, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15397635

You misunderstand what I am saying I already know that avchd files come scene split from the cam. What you CAN'T do with avchd is capture as a WHOLE file like you can with tape.

why are you first bragging about a utility for scene splitting, then telling us that it's an advantage to capture in one long file... stop contradicting yourself.

you NEVER need to capture with avchd, so there is no need to clutter up the hdd with time-wasting software like hdvsplit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15397635

And you CAN'T automatically rename avchd files according to their internal data (the date/time they were shot). You CAN with tape. I cane scene split a tape and have it AUTOMATICALLY named with the time/date that it was shot according to date setting on the cam.

another pointless tape-based waste of time.

every file on my hf11 has a distinct date and time that is viewable with windows explorer... if i wanted to keep track of days, i could create seperate directories for each date... or i could record to a seperate sd card for every day.

when i copy files from one drive to another, every file has a distinct day and time, that can be used by ANY windows renaming utility.

unlike you, barney, pro shooters know that it's never smart to leave multiple days worth of shooting on one piece of media, be it tape, hdd, dvd, or even solid state.

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bigbarney

· #10 · Dec 28, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by osv /forum/post/15398291

why are you first bragging about a utility for scene splitting, then telling us that it's an advantage to capture in one long file... stop contradicting yourself.

Do a search on complaints that you CAN'T capture as one long file with avchd.

Quote:
every file on my hf11 has a distinct date and time that is viewable with windows explorer... if i wanted to keep track of days, i could create seperate directories for each date... or i could record to a seperate sd card for every day.

when i copy files from one drive to another, every file has a distinct day and time, that can be used by ANY windows renaming utility.

What are you talking about???

That's windows explorer and I can do that with ANY file.

You CAN'T automatically label (name) the the file(s) on import with its specific time/date. This makes it impossible to do things like create subtitle tracks on disks with time/date info... unless of course you re name by hand, and good luck with that. Of course you have no idea what I'm talking about do you? It's clear any way by your response.

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osv

· #11 · Dec 28, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15399050

Do a search on complaints that you CAN'T capture as one long file with avchd.

YOU made that silly claim, prove it yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15399050

What are you talking about???

That's windows explorer and I can do that with ANY file.

exactly my point.

there is no need to worry about naming the file by the date it was shot, when the file can be named by the date it was copied to the hdd, and/or segregated into a directory that is named by the date.

bigbarney

· #12 · Dec 28, 2008

2

Quote:
Originally Posted by osv /forum/post/15399095

YOU made that silly claim, prove it yourself.

An answer I would expect from you

Quote:
exactly my point.

there is no need to worry about naming the file by the date it was shot, when the file can be named by the date it was copied to the hdd, and/or segregated into a directory that is named by the date.

Right.... well you try manually renaming 400 clips with year:month:day Hour:minute:second... let me know how that turns out

Again... you CAN'T create a subtitle track on your disk without the file NAMED with the time/date

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zapper

Discussion Starter · #13 · Dec 28, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15395173

Well first... contrary to what you may have read on THIS particular site, avchd is not better and the tape based HV30 is not a bad cam. In fact the "old fashioned" HV20 is STILL being used as a yardstick to measure quality in today's avchd cams and tape based mpeg2 is what the pro arena is using... and will continue to use for some time in the future.

What IS better about today's cams (depending on which way you look at it) is the capturing media. Hard drives and flash media do make the job easier and are a lot more efficient. The avchd itself... well.... although it's a more efficient codec, it's also a much more difficult codec to handle.

Sooo.... rest assured that the HV30 was NOT a bad choice and you will get years of enjoyment from it.

The computer you have while not the fastest in the world is fine for editing that way it is.... even the monitor. The vid card you bought can be returned if you wish... or used.... it won't make a huge difference. In fact you may want to return the card and pick up a BD burner instead because you WILL find a small stumbling block here.

Most BD players will handle what is known as "AVCHD disks" which is avchd written to dvd media (which holds about 30minutes on a SL disk)... but you have a MPEG2 based cam which means you will have to transcode everything over to avchd.... takes time and there is a quality loss. You can "fool" these players by writing mpeg2 to a avchd disk in a avchd wrapper, but you can't do menus or anything like that.

A BD burner will allow you to write mpeg2 to a BD disk complete with menus and what ever else you want and you can do it directly with no transcoding since MPEG2 is part of the BD spec. What is also part of the BD spec.... is 1440x1080. You don't have to re render everything to 1920x1080 if you do not wish. In fact it's a waste of time and you won't see any improvement. Is 1920x1080 any better than 1440x1080? Not really. Compare the HV30 with a 1920x1080 cam and you won't see any difference.

Pinnacle studio is a basic piece of software and it works but I hesitate to say it's the one for you. One of the main reasons for this the way it captures. You didn't say what you're using for a playback device but if it's the PS3 then you may want to rethink the Pinnacle studio idea. The PS3 is quite capable of playing back raw M2T files copied to disk and it is most common to capture your work from the HV30 to the computer as M2T.... Studio however captures as M2V with a separate WAV audio file.

I would suggest Sony Vegas... either the pro addition or the cheaper Platinum edition.

By the way.... if you happen to have the PS3, you may not even need to burn disks (depending on what you want). But the PS3 in combination with this little streamer program (see below)... you can STREAM just about anything from your computer to the PS3. It basically turns the PS3 into a full media server

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/PS3_Media_Server

Thanks guy's for your replies, do have the PS3 hooked up to my Front Projector and have the following DVD players Tosh HDA1, Bravo 1 and lastly the second OPPO player.

Took some movies on Christmas day and hooked up the HV30 with a HDMI cable directly to my PJ and it was grainy as heck, then used my Onkyo Receiver 705 and the grainy part was gone., just getting used to the camera. So someone suggested to return the new graphic card and perhaps buy a BD burner, seen them for about $230 on the net, the problem is the BD disk at $12-$19 a piece.

Could return the card in the following couple of day's got it for $150 instead of $200 at BB now they are $189. If the card is not that big of improvement let me know, please. As previously stated was hoping on watching my tapes on my Samsung which is hooked up to the Bravo player as of now.

Thanks for the site about the PS3, I know my computer well enough to get myself in trouble, what am I suppose to do with the PS3 site downloaded to my pc or PS3??

Thanks

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osv

· #14 · Dec 29, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15399155

Right.... well you try manually renaming 400 clips with year:month:day Hour:minute:second... let me know how that turns out

wrong again barney.

you can batch-rename files automatically at the dos prompt, without even using a program:

"Rename file with datetime appended to filenam"
http://en.kioskea.net/forum/affich-2...ded-to-filenam

osv

· #15 · Dec 29, 2008

you can burn avchd files to a standard definition dvd disc that is playable with your ps3, perhaps you can do the same thing with hdv?

as for returning the new video card, why not test the old video card with your hdv editing? confirm for yourself if it works or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapper /forum/post/15399246

Thanks guy's for your replies, do have the PS3 hooked up to my Front Projector and have the following DVD players Tosh HDA1, Bravo 1 and lastly the second OPPO player.

Took some movies on Christmas day and hooked up the HV30 with a HDMI cable directly to my PJ and it was grainy as heck, then used my Onkyo Receiver 705 and the grainy part was gone., just getting used to the camera. So someone suggested to return the new graphic card and perhaps buy a BD burner, seen them for about $230 on the net, the problem is the BD disk at $12-$19 a piece.

Could return the card in the following couple of day's got it for $150 instead of $200 at BB now they are $189. If the card is not that big of improvement let me know, please. As previously stated was hoping on watching my tapes on my Samsung which is hooked up to the Bravo player as of now.

Thanks

bigbarney

· #16 · Dec 29, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by osv /forum/post/15399633

wrong again barney.

you can batch-rename files automatically at the dos prompt, without even using a program:

"Rename file with datetime appended to filenam"
http://en.kioskea.net/forum/affich-2...ded-to-filenam

Nice try there guy... but that'll rename the file(s) according to the time/date stamp of windows explorer.... NOT the media's metadata info.

osv

· #17 · Dec 29, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15399696

Nice try there guy... but that'll rename the file(s) according to the time/date stamp of windows explorer.... NOT the media's metadata info.

as i already proved, with the proper workflow there is no need to use the metadata of the file for renaming purposes.

bigbarney

· #18 · Dec 29, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by osv /forum/post/15399692

you can burn avchd files to a standard definition dvd disc that is playable with your ps3, perhaps you can do the same thing with hdv?

Actually... you can. Would you like the instructions? (courtesy of Megabit)

Quote:
Basic Blu-Ray Authoring with HDV source

This is a very basic guide to making a Blu-Ray compatible disk using your HDV (1440 x 1080i ) footage and burn it to a standard DVD+R disk. Quality in not compromised, no re-encoding necessary. You can fit up to 20 min on a single layer and 40 min on a dual layer disk. This guide is very basic and the disk will have no menu and will play the video clip when the disk is inserted in the Blu-Ray player. I tested it on two players and it worked fine.

If you want multiple clips and a menu, then I suggest alternative methods like using Nero Vision to create an AVCHD disk with menus. You’ll have to encode to AVCHD for that option, but it will give you 40 min on a single layer disk.

Step 1)

Demux your m2t. You can use your favorite demuxer. I like ProjectX., it’s free and does a great fast job. It will demux your streams to xxxx.m2v and xxxx.mp2 without need for audio delay. You can create a shortcut to ProjectX on your desktop and simple drag and drop your m2t there. It will extract the streams to the same folder as your m2t.

Step2)

Convert your mp2 audio to ac3 with your favorite encoder. You can use ffmpegGUI or whatever to make a 48khz ac3. I use 256 kbps. AC3 is perfectly compatible with Blu-Ray standards, but mp2 is not.

Step3)

Mux your streams back together with tsMuxer. Change the extension on your xxxx.m2v to xxxx.mpv and import into tsMuxer. Then also import xxxx.ac3.

Step 4)

Create your Blu-Ray file structure with TsRemux. Browse to your xxxx.m2ts and open it. Now deselect Bypass Audio Alignment (very important or you wont have audio in your Blu-Ray player). Select all streams. Select Blu-Ray. Browse to where you want to create the directory and choose a name for your folder. Finally, hit the Remuxer.

Step 5)

Burn Blu-Ray structure with Nero. You’ll need Nero 7 or up because it has to support UDF v2.50 for the disk to work.

bigbarney

· #19 · Dec 29, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by osv /forum/post/15399707

as i already proved, with the proper workflow there is no need to use the metadata of the file for renaming purposes.

Yes... you keep saying that

And I will repeat.... if you want to create a subtitle track with the time/date metadata info then you MUST be able to at least NAME the files with the metadata time/date. This is EASILY done with HDV.

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osv

· #20 · Dec 29, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15399732

Yes... you keep saying that

i'm hoping that you will eventually understand

so that you will stop repeating false information out here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney /forum/post/15399732

And I will repeat.... if you want to create a subtitle track with the time/date metadata info then you MUST be able to at least NAME the files with the metadata time/date. This is EASILY done with HDV.

who cares about date/time info on a subtitle track? good grief, what a waste of time.

people who create the disc can easily write the date on the disc with a marker.

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