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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone been able to get as good a 3D picture from their HTPC, compared to the PS3 or 3D BD player? My ATI 3D HTPC doesn't look anywhere near as good as the picture I get from the PS3--I get some weird color separation(crosstalk/ghosting) as well as some heavy compression artifacts...mainly in the background. It looks pretty bad at times, but the PS3 looks perfect. BTW the movie I was comparing was Avatar 3D.


I use PDVD11, and I have the latest catalyst suite...also have iZ3D drivers for 3D gaming--games also show strange convergence/separation issues with colors (red/orange mostly).


My rig contains AMD 1090T, 8GB Ram, and 6970(through HDMI).


If you use NVidia products(software and hardware), how does it compare to a BD player or PS3 when viewing 3D?


Oh, forgot...I'm viewing through Mits 73 DLP with adapter.
 

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I have an old nvidia 9600 GSO with the nvidia glasses on my HD66 dlp projector and the 3D looks better than my Samsung pn58c7000 plasma. I play SBS 3D on the pc with powerDvd 11 as the old video card is not powerful enough to play bluray 3D. (I am about to upgrade it) you can make your own SBS 3D by ripping your 3D blurays with Dvdfav. You can try to see if those look better than a full 3D bluray or iso, they require less power on the pc and video card, if your Tv would accept SBS that is.


Laz.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMastr /forum/post/20836502


Has anyone been able to get as good a 3D picture from their HTPC, compared to the PS3 or 3D BD player? My ATI 3D HTPC doesn't look anywhere near as good as the picture I get from the PS3--I get some weird color separation(crosstalk/ghosting) as well as some heavy compression artifacts...mainly in the background. It looks pretty bad at times, but the PS3 looks perfect. BTW the movie I was comparing was Avatar 3D.


I use PDVD11, and I have the latest catalyst suite...also have iZ3D drivers for 3D gaming--games also show strange convergence/separation issues with colors (red/orange mostly).


My rig contains AMD 1090T, 8GB Ram, and 6970(through HDMI).


If you use NVidia products(software and hardware), how does it compare to a BD player or PS3 when viewing 3D?


Oh, forgot...I'm viewing through Mits 73 DLP with adapter.

When I first got my Mits DLP, and while waiting for the PS3 3D firmware update, I briefly played SBS files using my PC to Mits adapter to TV. I saw what seems to match your description. In my case it was the 3d adapter causing the problem. When I set the software to output checkerboard (rather than SBS) and connected the PC directly to the TV the problem disappeared. I only had this problem using the PC as the source component. Directv and my PS3 did not have any problems. I'm not sure the cause, maybe some weird HDMI handshake problem between the PC and adapter.
 

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Yeah, I'd suggest removing the adapter, and output a checkerboard signal (think it's called DLP-Generic in TMT). Make sure to set the Mits to checkerboard also.


I use TMT5 also, to my Samsung DLP, and it looks great. This is with both an ATI card and a nvidia card.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I believe I've tried that--going striaght to the tv--but will give it another go. If it works, I'll have to figure out what I'm supposed to do about lossless audio. I forgot to mention I run HDMI through an Onkyo 708.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
can't bypass the adapter or the glasses won't sync it seems...I did bypass the receiver, but still seeing crosstalk with colors. I don't have dlp glasses, just the ones that came with the adapter. I'd rather not run straight to the tv because I use the receiver for lossless audio.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMastr
I believe I've tried that--going striaght to the tv--but will give it another go. If it works, I'll have to figure out what I'm supposed to do about lossless audio. I forgot to mention I run HDMI through an Onkyo 708.
Try PC to AVR to TV with the software set to checkerboard output and the TV set to checkerboard 3D mode. The key is to plug the emitter directly into the TV and disregard the adapters instructions on using the sync cable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I plugged the emitter directly to the tv and that got the glasses synced, but there's still this funky color problem...mainly with bright reds, blues, yellow/oranges when playing Avatar in 3d (probably in other movies too, but Avatar has more color for testing). It's not like you see a complete crosstalk effect--just the colors seem to be duplicated out of convergence in the background. If you use pdvd in cinema mode where it shows the 4 colored squares(red, yellow, blue, and green), the red one looks doubled worse than any of the others on my display...it doesn't look solid.


It's not an issue for the PS3, the colors seem to converge correctly at any depth. I have catalyst set to use the applications settings(ie pdvd11) for all picture settings. If I manually adjust away all of the color saturation (ie B&W picture), there are no doubled images where the colors usually are, even at high contrast...not surprising since it's a dlp, so why can't the colors display properly converged?


Maybe it's a setting with my Videocard? If anyone has a setup similar to mine, or some idea of what's going on, I'd a appreciate some input.


Windows7 Home Premium

amd 1090T

msi 890GXM-G65 motherboard

msi R6970 Lightning twin frozr3

8GB RAM

PDVD11 ultra

Mits 73" DLP 73C10 w/adapter

Onkyo TX-NR708

cables monoprice 1.4a HDMI


Considering the PS3 does 3D perfectly though the receiver and adapter, I'm guessing it's a setting somewhere in AMD or Cyberlink software, or maybe a hardware configuration problem with my computer.


Problem Tags: PowerDVD 11 PDVD11 problem colors convergence crosstalk ghosting Mitsubishi DLP Win7 Stereoscopic 3D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Limited success! bypassing everything I was finally able to change color pixel format settings in catalyst from ycbcr 4x4x4 to full RGB...eliminating the color separation! I had tried this before, connected through my receiver, but it never took--kept reverting back to YCbCr. So if I figure out how to get that particular input/output to tell catalyst that Full RGB is okay, I should be golden. Catalyst only sees my receiver, not my tv, so it must think my receiver can't pass full RGB?
 

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I've got somewhat lower specs than yourself, and a more complicated setup, but it works for me.


AMD 1055T, 4GB of RAM, AMD 6850, HDMI through Monoprice PID 8008 HDMI over catX extender, Monoprice 5:1 switch (forget which one, its old, HDMI 1.3), sometimes Mitsubishi 3DA-1 (when feeding non checkerboard content), Yamaha RX-V663 receiver, Samsung 61" LED DLP. Works fine with iZ3D and all. I play my 3D blu rays from my Panny BDT-100 though, less hassle, generally.


However, thanks to my receiver being dumb, I have to use a custom EDID override INF file because it doesn't properly report EDID information. There's a whole thread in the HTPC section someplace on it.


I am not sure if my receiver passes full RGB off hand or not. I do have to set my TV for any input for 3D mode to 'PC' as the input label so it optimizes the LED timing differently to better work with the glasses, otherwise I get crazy red overload. Perhaps this is something similar?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSehnsucht /forum/post/20848787


I've got somewhat lower specs than yourself, and a more complicated setup, but it works for me.


AMD 1055T, 4GB of RAM, AMD 6850, HDMI through Monoprice PID 8008 HDMI over catX extender, Monoprice 5:1 switch (forget which one, its old, HDMI 1.3), sometimes Mitsubishi 3DA-1 (when feeding non checkerboard content), Yamaha RX-V663 receiver, Samsung 61" LED DLP. Works fine with iZ3D and all. I play my 3D blu rays from my Panny BDT-100 though, less hassle, generally.


However, thanks to my receiver being dumb, I have to use a custom EDID override INF file because it doesn't properly report EDID information. There's a whole thread in the HTPC section someplace on it.


I am not sure if my receiver passes full RGB off hand or not. I do have to set my TV for any input for 3D mode to 'PC' as the input label so it optimizes the LED timing differently to better work with the glasses, otherwise I get crazy red overload. Perhaps this is something similar?

I have my inputs labelled as "PC" on my TV also. Now RGB in catalyst is sticking when connected through my receiver (a good thing), but the colors still don't converge correctly unless I bypass the receiver. I've tried changing some settings in my receiver to "through" with no filtering or upscaling or anything else the receiver might try to do, but I must be missing something.
 

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I couldn't get mine to look right until I adjusted my overscan to +15% then my picture looked good. Does the picture look like it is almost like a checkerboard through the glasses if so try this it may help. O by the way I am using AMD chip and ATI card w/catalyst on mits dlp. hope maybe I helped
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan M /forum/post/20849767


I couldn't get mine to look right until I adjusted my overscan to +15% then my picture looked good. Does the picture look like it is almost like a checkerboard through the glasses if so try this it may help. O by the way I am using AMD chip and ATI card w/catalyst on mits dlp. hope maybe I helped

Are you talking about scaling the picture? I tried that first, but opted for custom resolution when I noticed what it did to the picture (checkerboard).


This is where I am now, and what I'm thinking: Bypassing everything--htpc straight to the TV by hdmi--with full RGB, works in checkerboard. Going through the receiver does not look good. So I tried something different, in PDVD settings, I changed my display type to a 1.4 1080p 24hz, and let the adapter convert it to checkerboard...voila, no color separation issues. Something about sending checkerboard through my Onkyo must be causing a problem with colorspace--this is what I've gathered from reading stuff I know nothing about LOL.


So now I have full hdmi audio through the receiver, and my 3D looks good, but obvioulsy this isn't what's supposed to happen right? Checkerboard should work correctly passing through the Onkyo without color separation/convergence issues. The question is, who do I report this to? Onkyo? Cyberlink? AMD/ATi? Microsoft? Mitsubishi? My MOM?
 

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Some receivers clip RGB values outside of 16-235 when passing RGB even when "passing" it "unmodified". So, that may be the cause. I'd actually bet most receivers still get this wrong, so many devices do... some may also rescale 16-235 when sent full range into 0-255 or scale 0-255 into 16-235.


In theory, the receiver should see the checkerboard signal as an ordinary 1080P/60 signal, of no significance. In fact, there's no reason a YCbCr 4:4:4 signal couldn't be used instead of RGB, except that TI designed the DLP chipsets to only do 3D correctly with RGB for some reason ...


And your mom is more likely to get this fixed than Onkyo, even if it's Onkyo's fault.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMastr
Are you talking about scaling the picture? I tried that first, but opted for custom resolution when I noticed what it did to the picture (checkerboard).


This is where I am now, and what I'm thinking: Bypassing everything--htpc straight to the TV by hdmi--with full RGB, works in checkerboard. Going through the receiver does not look good. So I tried something different, in PDVD settings, I changed my display type to a 1.4 1080p 24hz, and let the adapter convert it to checkerboard...voila, no color separation issues. Something about sending checkerboard through my Onkyo must be causing a problem with colorspace--this is what I've gathered from reading stuff I know nothing about LOL.


So now I have full hdmi audio through the receiver, and my 3D looks good, but obvioulsy this isn't what's supposed to happen right? Checkerboard should work correctly passing through the Onkyo without color separation/convergence issues. The question is, who do I report this to? Onkyo? Cyberlink? AMD/ATi? Microsoft? Mitsubishi? My MOM?


For my Mitsubishi 3D I am running catalyst 10.9a drivers. Everything after didn't seem to work right for me. You can't use a custom resolution because of the way checkerboard works. Well it works but will cause eye strain. Leave it at 1080P60fps. Make sure scaling is turned off. Then set overscan to 0%. Your taskbar will partially disappear but that is the sacrifice for 3D. I have 1st generation Yamaha that has HDMI so I doubt the Onkyo is the problem. So HTPC ---Receiver---TV. Set TV to checkerboard and make sure emitter is plugged into the TV. Your TV understands checkerboard just fine so don't plug in the adapter. Sometimes I get a red or blue hue I just switch the HDMI input to an unused port and switch back and that usually fixes it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSehnsucht
Some receivers clip RGB values outside of 16-235 when passing RGB even when "passing" it "unmodified". So, that may be the cause. I'd actually bet most receivers still get this wrong, so many devices do... some may also rescale 16-235 when sent full range into 0-255 or scale 0-255 into 16-235.


In theory, the receiver should see the checkerboard signal as an ordinary 1080P/60 signal, of no significance. In fact, there's no reason a YCbCr 4:4:4 signal couldn't be used instead of RGB, except that TI designed the DLP chipsets to only do 3D correctly with RGB for some reason ...


And your mom is more likely to get this fixed than Onkyo, even if it's Onkyo's fault.
Without understanding everything completely, I came to the same conclusion after reading a lot of information about colorspace and whatnot around here... RGB works, but my receiver is mucking things up if the source signal is checkerboard--gotta be Onkyo's fault. I'll get my mom to fix it right after she figures out how to set the clock on her VCR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TViewer2000
For my Mitsubishi 3D I am running catalyst 10.9a drivers. Everything after didn't seem to work right for me. You can't use a custom resolution because of the way checkerboard works. Well it works but will cause eye strain. Leave it at 1080P60fps. Make sure scaling is turned off. Then set overscan to 0%. Your taskbar will partially disappear but that is the sacrifice for 3D. I have 1st generation Yamaha that has HDMI so I doubt the Onkyo is the problem. So HTPC ---Receiver---TV. Set TV to checkerboard and make sure emitter is plugged into the TV. Your TV understands checkerboard just fine so don't plug in the adapter. Sometimes I get a red or blue hue I just switch the HDMI input to an unused port and switch back and that usually fixes it.
Without using old drivers, I did try standard 1080p/60 w/out scaling or anything, set as checkerboard...same issue. If I set PDVD to send my receiver a 1.4a spec HDMI signal, it has no problem passing that to the adapter for checkerboard conversion, and everything looks dandy--even with the custom resolution.


I sometimes get that weird color shift after HDMI "handshakes" as well. I'll do something to make it re-handshake and it returns to normal.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMastr /forum/post/20857386


Without understanding everything completely, I came to the same conclusion after reading a lot of information about colorspace and whatnot around here... RGB works, but my receiver is mucking things up if the source signal is checkerboard--gotta be Onkyo's fault. I'll get my mom to fix it right after she figures out how to set the clock on her VCR.




Without using old drivers, I did try standard 1080p/60 w/out scaling or anything, set as checkerboard...same issue. If I set PDVD to send my receiver a 1.4a spec HDMI signal, it has no problem passing that to the adapter for checkerboard conversion, and everything looks dandy--even with the custom resolution.


I sometimes get that weird color shift after HDMI "handshakes" as well. I'll do something to make it re-handshake and it returns to normal.




The PS3 output is fine because it outputs 3D in the 1.4 format. PDVD outputs 1.4 as well so it work fine. The 1.4 format sends the 3D in a sequencial sequence. So Left frame then Right frame and so on. Checkerboard sends both left and right frame in the 1080P frame. It's up to the TV to get this and interpret the information. If what is being set is not correct the 3D will not work correctly.


So GPU scaling needs to be turned off.


Overscan needs to be set to 0%.


If scaling is on then it messes with the convergence of the checkerboard. Quote:"It's not like you see a complete crosstalk effect--just the colors seem to be duplicated out of convergence in the background."


That is caused by scaling and custom resolution.


Also shat resolution are you running? I ran a custom resolution so that the desktop would match to the TV set. While the 3D worked the convergence was off due to not sending the TV a 1920x1080P frame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TViewer2000 /forum/post/20861535


The PS3 output is fine because it outputs 3D in the 1.4 format. PDVD outputs 1.4 as well so it work fine. The 1.4 format sends the 3D in a sequencial sequence. So Left frame then Right frame and so on. Checkerboard sends both left and right frame in the 1080P frame. It's up to the TV to get this and interpret the information. If what is being set is not correct the 3D will not work correctly.


So GPU scaling needs to be turned off.


Overscan needs to be set to 0%.


If scaling is on then it messes with the convergence of the checkerboard. Quote:"It's not like you see a complete crosstalk effect--just the colors seem to be duplicated out of convergence in the background."


That is caused by scaling and custom resolution.


Also shat resolution are you running? I ran a custom resolution so that the desktop would match to the TV set. While the 3D worked the convergence was off due to not sending the TV a 1920x1080P frame.

When I first noticed the problem, I thought maybe the custom resolution was at fault because I knew that scaling caused problems with the checkerboard format. So I tried it with the standard 1920x1080P/60 resolution--yeah there was a lot of overscan, but I didn't try adjusting it--I left scaling off, and the convergence issue remained. When I set my custom resolution to 1856x1044(maintain aspect ratio) that reduces the overscan, and when I bypassed the receiver, checkerboard (in RGB) worked fine with that custom resolution. Once I tried running it through the receiver the problem came back, so I assume the receiver is changing the colorspace (RGB) when it receives the checkerboard format from my PC (with or without running it through the adapter to my tv)--but if I send the receiver a 1.4 HDMI signal, and it outputs it through the adapter to the TV, everything works and looks perfect--and since I don't have to bypass the receiver, I keep audio through HDMI.


If you're running a custom resolution and it's not working, does it still have the right aspect ratio? Maintaining the aspect ratio probably isn't going to "fit" the screen as well, that's why I do have a little overscan--I didn't want any underscan top/bottom or sides. 3D works fine either way though as long as I bypass the receiver in checkerboard(w/RGB), or send a 1.4 format signal through it to the adapter...no convergence issues.


When I get a chance I'm going to reinstall the iZ3D driver to see if everything looks better in games, or if the convergence problem remains for games.
 
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