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I'm sure we all want to buy subwoofers from soft-spoken audio geniuses, who are skilled craftspeople with high standards and unfussy sensibility. I follow this forum daily, and all I seem to read lately is how great internet direct subwoofers are. Even though I'm aware of what I can get internet direct, I chose to order a Paradigm subwoofer from a bricks and mortar store earlier this year. I want to deal face-to-face, and get service from a local store. There is something to be said for buying retail.


Generally it is safer to keep away from buying online. There is nothing wrong with sending newcomers to the hobby to a retail store to buy their first subwoofer. Luxury subwoofers like Paradigm Signature, JL Audio and Velodyne DD series are not available online either. I've had enough condescension from those here that advocate internet direct. How about being a gentleman, and admitting there is a place for retail, even at the low end?
 

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If you want to get your subwoofer advice from someone that also sells washers/dryers, TVs, Play Stations, and CDs, that's your prerogative. No need to attack the advice here because you're insecure in your ability to make an educated decision and you need Suzy at Best Buy to validate your choice.


If Velodyne and others didn't employ price fixing, they would be stronger contenders to the ID companies. And talk about condescending, they also believe their products need to be presented to consumers by a trained and knowledgeable sales force. Good luck finding that in most stores.


You are correct that there is a place for retail. I buy all my canned goods retail.


BTW, if the Amish were to make subs, they would be great. But the wait for them to ship cross country in an Amish Buggy would be unbearable.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbfleming /forum/post/19649671




I'm sure we all want to buy subwoofers from soft-spoken audio geniuses, who are skilled craftspeople with high standards and unfussy sensibility. I follow this forum daily, and all I seem to read lately is how great internet direct subwoofers are. Even though I'm aware of what I can get internet direct, I chose to order a Paradigm subwoofer from a bricks and mortar store earlier this year. I want to deal face-to-face, and get service from a local store. There is something to be said for buying retail.


Generally it is safer to keep away from buying online. There is nothing wrong with sending newcomers to the hobby to a retail store to buy their first subwoofer. Luxury subwoofers like Paradigm Signature, JL Audio and Velodyne DD series are not available online either. I've had enough condescension from those here that advocate internet direct. How about being a gentleman, and admitting there is a place for retail, even at the low end?


Who gives a hoot about retail and their inflated prices for mediocre performance. You can get subs online for around a thousand or so that will outperfrom a Velodyne DD 18 for a third of the price. Retail preys on people who do not do their research and will pay much higher prices for underpeforming products. Bose has been doing it for years.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbfleming /forum/post/19649671


I want to deal face-to-face, and get service from a local store.

Most of the Internet Direct sub makers you can call them on the phone and get the owner of the company, or the guys who actually make the subs (sometimes it's the same guy(s).) They can explain in detail what the sub is about, answer questions about your particular needs, and custom make some orders within reason. Try doing that with Paradigm or Velodyne.


You also don't have to order from most of them over the net. They'll happily take an order over the phone.


While if you find a boutique dealer you can get someone who knows what they're talking about, most of those stores have been driven away by Best Buy/Magnolia.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac /forum/post/19649885


If you want to get your subwoofer advice from someone that also sells washers/dryers, TVs, Play Stations, and CDs, that's your prerogative. No need to attack the advice here because you're insecure in your ability to make an educated decision and you need Suzy at Best Buy to validate your choice.


If Velodyne and others didn't employ price fixing, they would be stronger contenders to the ID companies. And talk about condescending, they also believe their products need to be presented to consumers by a trained and knowledgeable sales force. Good luck finding that in most stores.


You are correct that there is a place for retail. I buy all my canned goods retail.


BTW, if the Amish were to make subs, they would be great. But the wait for them to ship cross country in an Amish Buggy would be unbearable.


I'm a fan of ID as I just bought an HSU sub and am in love, but my ultimate love is for Paradigm. They do not sell that brand at Best Buy and they never will. Paradigm is very good about protecting their channel and that means that the level of retailer is a lot higher than BB. I know it's a crazy concept, but some people like to hear audio equipment before they buy
. Brick and Mortar still has a place and I don't think one should be admonished for valuing a local resource. To some, it is well worth the premium. In fact, I went in person to demo HSU since they are local and it was a great experience! I'm not sure I would have made that choice if I didn't have a chance to demo the gear.


And yes, my next sub will be delivered by horse and buggy.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbfleming
Generally it is safer to keep away from buying online.
It's safer in the sense that buyers have the opportunity to hear what they're buying (albeit in a very different environment from their own HT space). And returning an item can be more convenient.


Meanwhile, the dangers of buying at a store are that you can end up pressured into buying an over-priced and under-performing subwoofer AND an overpriced Monster sub cable AND maybe even an over-priced and totally un-necessary extended warranty.

Quote:
There is nothing wrong with sending newcomers to the hobby to a retail store to buy their first subwoofer.
I agree. Better yet, recommend well-rated, mint-condition used subs to newcomers. There's no shame in used, especially if you get a good deal. (I've got buddies who've gotten great deals on killer used subs, and I've even picked up a couple for some friends for their budget HT systems.)
 

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When i started upgrading my HT this fall, the first place i went to was the local high end AV store. They had some nice displays, but very little product on hand to sell. Seems like they do more installation now than retail sales. I bought a few demo Phase Technology Speakers at a good price, went home & got right on the internet.

Without it i wouldn't have the Magnepan MMG's, Rythmik E15, Emotiva Amps, the Denon 4311CI & Oppo BDP-83 that comprise my main system.

By the way, is that a real picture of the Amish making subs? I live around Amish Country in upstate Ohio & would have loved to visit any of their workshops.
 

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In most cases, Internet direct pricing is a draw for many consumers due to the savings involved .. in fact, many demo the tech in store and then go home and immediately look for the best on line deal for the same equipment ..


It's difficult for a B&M retailer to compete with that due to overhead, and thus in many cases, truely knowledgeable sales staff is quite hard to find ..


The sad part is, if we are unwilling to become actual customers of a B&M speciality retailer, they will continue to die out .. leaving us with the big box chains ..


When I was a young man, audio in particular was pretty much dominated by Mom and Pop shops that knew the product, would work with you in any way possible and had in store repair facilities .. I'll not soon forget a visit to one of these shops in 1969 when I was considering a new amp to replace a McIntosh I had at the time. The owner suggested I bring my unit in and we A/B some of his units side by side with mine.


During that demo, I prefered mine over his and he agreed .. that type of scenario is getting pretty rare these days, in fact, it may be all but gone ..


For some of us oldsters, buying was and is a visceral experience ..
 

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Most of the Internet direct places mentioned on here have showrooms so they are brick and mortar stores. Just not to everyone. They use the Internet to reach people. What's wrong with that? They are still domestic business's and local to their surrounding area.


Whats the difference between me ordering paradigm stuff from YOUR local paradigm dealer and ordering from HSU?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn /forum/post/0


The sad part is, if we are unwilling to become actual customers of a B&M speciality retailer, they will continue to die out .. leaving us with the big box chains ..

On average - and in general - the staff at specialty electronics retailers probably is more knowledgeable than the staff at box stores. But I've had plenty of encounters with specialty electronics staff who:

- don't know much about the products their shop carries;

- don't seem too interested in answering questions and delving into details;

- talk down comparable products sold elsewhere (rather than provide objective information to help the consumer make the best purchase); and/or

- push the items currently on sale or on which they make the most commission.


Given that, and given the wealth of information available on the web (and, specifically, in electronics forums), I have no problem with most of them dying out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck /forum/post/19651641


On average - and in general - the staff at specialty electronics retailers probably is more knowledgeable than the staff at box stores. But I've had plenty of encounters with specialty electronics staff who:

- don't know much about the products their shop carries;

- don't seem too interested in answering questions and delving into details;

- talk down comparable products sold elsewhere (rather than provide objective information to help the consumer make the best purchase); and/or

- push the items currently on sale or on which they make the most commission.


Given that, and given the wealth of information available on the web (and, specifically, in electronics forums), I have no problem with most of them dying out.

And when they do, perhaps the Web will have evolved to the point of complete vitual reality so we may then completely eliminate the "hands on" buying experience ..
 

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Quote:
And when they do, perhaps the Web will have evolved to the point of complete vitual reality so we may then completely eliminate the "hands on" buying experience ..

If it has evolved to the point of complete "Holo-deck" virtual reality, then the "hands on" experience will still exist. At that point in time, however, it won't be electronics I'll be wanting to get my hands onto...
 

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When it came time to upgrade from a cheap 10 inch synergy sub, I started looing on this site and reading up on all the info from all of YOU. I read many threads on subs and totally trusted people on this sites opinions more than i would trust any salesperson.


I ended up going with the Ed a7s-450. Called ED and they changed the specs slightly for the sub to meet my dimension needs.


i am extremely happy with my choice and continue to make purchases based upon the opinions of all of you that spend far more time and have far more knowledge than many sales people.


ID companies dont need a store for people to listen to their products.... they have all of you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck /forum/post/19651716


If it has evolved to the point of complete "Holo-deck" virtual reality, then the "hands on" experience will still exist. At that point in time, however, it won't be electronics I'll be wanting to get my hands onto...

Good one ..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsrgreat /forum/post/19651722


When it came time to upgrade from a cheap 10 inch synergy sub, I started looing on this site and reading up on all the info from all of YOU. I read many threads on subs and totally trusted people on this sites opinions more than i would trust any salesperson.


I ended up going with the Ed a7s-450. Called ED and they changed the specs slightly for the sub to meet my dimension needs.


i am extremely happy with my choice and continue to make purchases based upon the opinions of all of you that spend far more time and have far more knowledge than many sales people.


ID companies dont need a store for people to listen to their products.... they have all of you.

True, AVS is great for that .. however, when the advisors on this site have no place to go and see/listen, what then .. ??
 

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True, AVS is great for that .. however, when the advisors on this site have no place to go and see/listen, what then .. ??



We have some crazy people here at AVS... they will go out and purchase things without hearing them and then come back. Just look at all of the stuff reviewed on this site by people. They will buy it, not like it, sell it, by another and so their life goes. A never ending search for stuff
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts
Who gives a hoot about retail and their inflated prices for mediocre performance. You can get subs online for around a thousand or so that will outperfrom a Velodyne DD 18 for a third of the price. Retail preys on people who do not do their research and will pay much higher prices for underpeforming products. Bose has been doing it for years.
"Retail preys on people who do not do their research and will pay much higher prices for underpeforming (sic) products. Bose has been doing it for years.


B&M's serve a different market segment than internet direct. That market segment has more disposable income, and wants to see and hear the product before they make their purchase.


Projecting your mindset onto others doesn't really work. Also, your choice of Bose is ill-conceived. Bose has the highest customer loyalty rating of any business in the USA. Higher than Apple, IBM, and many others.


Bose has a wide variety of premium priced products that are heavily advertised, but sell well. Bose has also produced products for the US military (noise reducing headphones). Unlike almost all internet direct companies, Bose has showrooms, factory stores and airport kiosks spread across the country. They may have as many as 200 retail outlets, compared to exactly one showroom at internet direct companies.


How bout the fact that Bose has now introduced the $5,349 LCD TV with Bose sound? While you are looking in the mirror, people with much more discretionary income are shopping in-store, on-line, on TV, at the airport for pricey products that appeal to them.
 

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The short story is I just replaced the driver and power amp from my five year old SVS sub (SVS further discounted the components due to my unfortunate luck and this was cheaper than outright replacing it.) Their customer support is fantastic - which I'm willing to bet can't be said of the B&M brands.


Great performance and service after the sale is why I would suggest the best Internet Direct companies to others.
 

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Weekly I go to electronic stores to shop and browse, and I have tested almost every store brand subwoofer and been to many a A/V GTG where I have had the chance to hear 40 or so internet brand subs, from the cheap to the ultra expensive. I have heard a great IB sub setup, I have heard decent DIY subs, but can say with all honesty that there is no sub in a store bought store that can keep up with internet brand subs. Granted their are exceptions like the DefTech Trinity or subs that have to be special ordered to demo, but otherwise I always recommend subs from companies like SVS, Hsu, Epik, or ED or if skilled a great DIY sub over anything for the same amount of money from a store.
 
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