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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm curious as to where certain decisions come from in the movie world. Some quick examples:


1) Tony Stark surviving the fall after escaping the caves.


2) The horrid, horrid gymnastics scene from The Lost World.


3) Gandalf stopping in mid battle to acknowledge a butterfly and not getting stabbed in the heart.


4) Ford in the frig.


5) Anything Willis survived in a movie.



Who green lights these hideously unbelievable ideas, and furthermore, why? Couldn't any of these scenarios been done in a more believable way and accomplished the same result? Is it simply to appeal to the drama thirsty lowest common denominator (who, lets admit it, make up the ticket sales)?
 

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Maybe it's because every action movie made since the "blockbuster" era began in '77 with Star Wars are more or less live action cartoons. What wowed me when I was 10 makes me roll my eyes at 44. When I was a boy, still enamored of Wile E. Coyote type antics, that kind of thing seemed cool since it was a live action interpretation of what I'd seen previously only done in animation. Now that I'm an adult, the absurdity of it just grates on me. Let the young'uns have their cgi Spidey swinging from building to building, thats fine- but every once in a while give me an adult action movie that appeals to my desire to see something that makes me say "oh ****, that's cool!" instead of wanting to face-palm. We don't get that nearly often enough.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/20793077


4) Ford in the frig.

This was actually a clever idea, but the blocking of the scene does kind of ruin it. After the blast, had the fridge skipped along the ground like a rock across the surface of a lake, rather than flying 100 feet into the air before crash landing, his survival would have felt less cartoonish.


Reading internet criticism of the scene, a lot of people don't really understand it. They think it is impossible for anything to survive a nuclear blast of any kind from close range. If you watch enough test footage from that era, a surprising number of everyday objects emerge relatively unscathed. Many people don't get the importance of Jones being in a led-lined box, and younger audiences don't know that fridges used to lock when closed.


If you or I were in the same situation, that fridge would be the place to be.
 

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The fridge scene being acceptable (because, at least, they used a VINTAGE fridge)...


Another movie where "the truth" gets told, mainly cause it is a "complete mock" movie...


The Other Guys when SLJ and DJ(otherwise known as TR) jump off the building to their deaths...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker /forum/post/20793255


Maybe it's because every action movie made since the "blockbuster" era began in '77 with Star Wars are more or less live action cartoons. What wowed me when I was 10 makes me roll my eyes at 44. When I was a boy, still enamored of Wile E. Coyote type antics, that kind of thing seemed cool since it was a live action interpretation of what I'd seen previously only done in animation. Now that I'm an adult, the absurdity of it just grates on me. Let the young'uns have their cgi Spidey swinging from building to building, thats fine- but every once in a while give me an adult action movie that appeals to my desire to see something that makes me say "oh ****, that's cool!" instead of wanting to face-palm. We don't get that nearly often enough.

Good explanation. I'm very close to your age and that seems very plausible to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geremia P. /forum/post/20793819


This was actually a clever idea, but the blocking of the scene does kind of ruin it. After the blast, had the fridge skipped along the ground like a rock across the surface of a lake, rather than flying 100 feet into the air before crash landing, his survival would have felt less cartoonish.


Reading internet criticism of the scene, a lot of people don't really understand it. They think it is impossible for anything to survive a nuclear blast of any kind from close range. If you watch enough test footage from that era, a surprising number of everyday objects emerge relatively unscathed. Many people don't get the importance of Jones being in a led-lined box, and younger audiences don't know that fridges used to lock when closed.


If you or I were in the same situation, that fridge would ebe the place to be.

I was speaking of surviving that particular scene as it was shown (with the massive impacts it made) and popping out pretty much unscathed (He flew a lot farther than 100 feet).


Couldn't that scene have been done in a much more believable way? Hell, if nothing else just keep the scene like it was, but don't ever show Ford getting out of it. Maybe show the door pop open and leave the camera on it for a few seconds and Ford never emerges. The next scene could be him being briefed/interrogated in a hospital bed where he looks like he's been beat to hell and back. That at least would lend a small touch of realism.


I simply don't understand the silliness of some of these action scenes when there is always a much more plausible option.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/20793077


I'm curious as to where certain decisions come from in the movie world. Some quick examples:


1) Tony Stark surviving the fall after escaping the caves.

But you don't have a problem with him flying around in an atomic-powered metal flying suit at supersonic speeds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/20793077


2) The horrid, horrid gymnastics scene from The Lost World.

But you don't have a problem with genetically engineered dinosaurs walking around in modern times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/20793077


3) Gandalf stopping in mid battle to acknowledge a butterfly and not getting stabbed in the heart.

But you didn't have a problem with Gandalf turning the butterfly into an eagle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/20793077


4) Ford in the frig.

It's a an over the top action adventure movie like all the Indy films. This one just happens to be terrible, and even if you deleted this scene, it would still suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/20793077


5) Anything Willis survived in a movie.

They are popcorn action movies. That's part of the fun.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/0



1) Tony Stark surviving the fall after escaping the caves.

Its a man who has fused his heart with some odd energy source that fires missles and bullets from various parts of his body while going against enemies of the same sort whilst the enemy is being backed up by a horde of robocops and your question is how did he survive a fall? The movie as a whole is as believable as bose making quality sound from acoustimass modules.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker /forum/post/20793255


Maybe it's because every action movie made since the "blockbuster" era began in '77 with Star Wars are more or less live action cartoons. What wowed me when I was 10 makes me roll my eyes at 44. When I was a boy, still enamored of Wile E. Coyote type antics, that kind of thing seemed cool since it was a live action interpretation of what I'd seen previously only done in animation. Now that I'm an adult, the absurdity of it just grates on me. Let the young'uns have their cgi Spidey swinging from building to building, thats fine- but every once in a while give me an adult action movie that appeals to my desire to see something that makes me say "oh ****, that's cool!" instead of wanting to face-palm. We don't get that nearly often enough.

I agree. Taken had that effect on me, though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore /forum/post/20796447


But you don't have a problem with him flying around in an atomic-powered metal flying suit at supersonic speeds?

The suit is possible, though beyond our current technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore /forum/post/20796447


But you don't have a problem with genetically engineered dinosaurs walking around in modern times?

Again, that is scientifically possible. It'll probably happen eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore /forum/post/20796447


But you didn't have a problem with Gandalf turning the butterfly into an eagle?

I believe he "spoke" to the butterfly and it went and found a giant eagle for him, or something like that. In the middle of a hand battle he just stood there and no one stabbed him.


Just sayin.
 

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Stuff like LotR's, being fantasy movies can play as fast and loose with logic and physics as they please. We're talking about movies with hobbits and wizards for pete's sake. It's movies such as Iron Man and the like, where they try to have it both ways- they go out of their way to show you it's grounded somewhat "in the real world", but they lose me when the actual laws of physics are completely trampled for the sake of a cool scene. That takes me right out of it. It's a fine line to walk, and very few movies are able to master that tightrope. Nolans Batman films and Veerhovens Robocop are two off the top of my head that I believe pretty much nailed that line. It's okay to be a live action cartoon if you're self-aware of what you are. Smokey and The Bandit is a silly Road Runner cartoon from start to finish, but it knows and knows you know it to. So it works. Kick-Ass is one of the most recent examples of this, and it completely worked for me. Most movies however, not so much.
 

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I live most of my life in reality, where I need to make sense of things and it's important for my (and my families) safety and well being to understand and interpret events logically.


What you're talking about is entertainment. I'm happy I can separate the two and simply enjoy, allowing my brain to recharge for when I get back to reality.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David James /forum/post/20796789


I live most of my life in reality, where I need to make sense of things and it's important for my (and my families) safety and well being to understand and interpret events logically.


What you're talking about is entertainment. I'm happy I can separate the two and simply enjoy, allowing my brain to recharge for when I get back to reality.

Then you are Micheal Bay's target audience. I personally don't buy into that "turn your brain off at the door" stuff. If thats your bag, more power to you, but can't the rest of us have a popcorn flick that doesn't insult our intelligence more than just once in a blue moon?
 

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2) The horrid, horrid gymnastics scene from The Lost World.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore /forum/post/20796447


But you don't have a problem with genetically engineered dinosaurs walking around in modern times?

Hell no. Bring 'em on.


But that gymnastics scene...truly a high-water mark in excruciating film-making.


It was clearly supposed to be a culminating moment of triumph...but the entire audience just groaned when I saw JP2, with only some managing to laugh as derisively as humanly possible.


If Spielberg himself had jumped from behind the screen and physically p*ssed in everyone's popcorn, it couldn't have been more of a downer moment.


BTW, I know we are talking of "movie moments" rather than actors, but I'd have to nominate Chris Tucker in the Fith Element for sheer eye-searing WTF-please-make-him-stopism!


(And since I saw it in the theaters, I still can't watch Indiana Jones Temple Of Doom 'cause of that grating little kid).
 

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I can sometimes turn my brain off, but I know what the OP means. I would like to be a fly on the wall during some of those discussions.
  • "Ok, so Goldblum and the girl are trapped in a shack with a velociraptor closing in. The girl is going to gather all of her courage and pick up a shovel and hit the dino in the side of the head, saving Jeff Goldblum"
  • "Well, that's ok, but hear me out. What if instead....she finds a pair of conveniently placed parallel bars to do gymnastics on, flipping around several times, then kicking the dino in the side"
  • "GENIUS! GIVE THAT MAN A BONUS!"


I think there is a thread around here about otherwise enjoyable movies that one scene bugs you to no end. Can't seem to find it now. Such as the aforementioned gymnastics scene, and for Jurassic Park the "Unix?!? I know this!" scene. ID4 is otherwise enjoyable (to me) without the virus scene (if they'd have just bypassed that and gone straight to the nuke blowing it up). And so on and so forth...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I appreciate the input thus far, but I honestly have to say that judging from some of the responses I've seen (only some, and I'm sure everyone knows which ones) that it's very little wonder why some stupid ass Hollywood garbage does so well at the box office.


There's an enormous difference between suspension of belief (genetically engineered dinosaurs, a super suit) and outright stupidity. Go ahead and make a movie based on a comic or silly idea. As movie goers we all enjoy fantasy and something that allows us to see beyond the reality of everyday mundane life.


But why put in scenes such as those mentioned above? We're already suspending belief in most movies anyway, so why go that extra step to make it not only implausible, but undeniably and unbelievably silly?


Couldn't Tony Stark have fallen from a much, much less violent trajectory? Or, did he even have to blast off in the first place? Why not just show that he took care of all the bad guys, took the armored suit off, had a coke and a smile while he enjoyed their supplies (which actually would have fit his persona) while waiting for a rescue from a search party that would have seen the smoke, rather than wandering out in the vast desert with nothing but a scratched arm from his 300 foot slam into the sand?


The Gandalf scene was simple. Have him stab an ork, then quickly look up to see the butterfly (or moth or whatever it was), then go back to slaying baddies. Instead he stops, makes a sandwich, props his feet up for 15 minutes while none of the bad guys try to kill him. I guess he just looked too important for them.


The gymnastics scene....well, lets just say it's hard to believe someone actually defended it (enjoy watching Wanted and Transformers 2 in a continuous loop). I think most everyone else would agree it took years off some people's lives who watched it.


I covered the frig scene already. Simple fix. Show a less violent fall. The door falls open (show from an angle we can't see inside), but Ford doesn't come out. Later he's shown in a hospital beaten up. Or, better yet, nix the whole damn scene (or the whole movie) and do something else.


Willis? Here's an idea...don't put so many bullets in him. Or maybe don't have him fall from that height. Acknowledge that massive blood loss is actually bad for some people. And don't put him in some of the situations he finds himself in. However, I will grant you that Die Hard movies are what they are and don't pretend otherwise. But would just a *touch* of authenticity be such a bad thing? I'm willing to cut these type of macho action movies a break, though. At least the original DH, anyway.


My point/question is only this: Why ask so much of the audience when it doesn't have to be that way?


Better yet, lets try it this way - who thinks the aforementioned scenes actually made the movies better? Or, who watched their wives or whoever roll their eyes during these types of scenes due to the silliness?


Also, don't forget the original question (if anyone knows since I sure don't): Who gives these scenes the green light, but more importantly, WHY? Audiences have been spoon fed **** for so long from Hollywood we've forgotten we don't enjoy the taste. It'll only get worse, I fear. Personally, I find less movies each passing year that I wish to see, but that's another topic altogether.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David James /forum/post/20796789


I live most of my life in reality, where I need to make sense of things and it's important for my (and my families) safety and well being to understand and interpret events logically.


What you're talking about is entertainment. I'm happy I can separate the two and simply enjoy, allowing my brain to recharge for when I get back to reality.

Hang in there David, I am with YOU.


There is much to be enjoyed if you just suspend reality and allow yourself to be entertained by stuff in movies that cant really happen, its fun, its usually great visuals with great audios, and it is an escape from the reality of day to day life.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/20797740


Also, don't forget the original question (if anyone knows since I sure don't): Who gives these scenes the green light, but more importantly, WHY? Audiences have been spoon fed **** for so long from Hollywood we've forgotten we don't enjoy the taste. It'll only get worse, I fear. Personally, I find less movies each passing year that I wish to see, but that's another topic altogether.

Oneupmanship. You put a dozen rounds of ammo into your hero and he survives, I'll put a thousand into mine! Your hero falls a hundred feet? Mine will fall from orbit! That's the impression I get anyway.
 

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I think we had this conversation before. Someone cited one of the Transporter movies which had Statham do an airborne barrel roll in a car so he could snag a bomb off of it with a crane. Over the top? Sure, but many others thought it was badass. Different strokes and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 /forum/post/20797740


Also, don't forget the original question (if anyone knows since I sure don't): Who gives these scenes the green light, but more importantly, WHY? Audiences have been spoon fed **** for so long from Hollywood we've forgotten we don't enjoy the taste.

Why? Because the movies make money even with those scenes, that's why. Most of the movies you mentioned made money (all of them made money if you're talking about Willis in the Die Hard movies), and the majority made a boatload of money.


While some people roll their eyes at these sort of scenes, most people just let it wash over them and don't get hung up on it. And then they go spend their money on the next blockbuster that's even more over the top. As long as that happens, this cycle will not end.
 
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