[spincycle79]

I'm not sure what forum this belongs in.. but I just wanted to share a recent experience with other audiophiles.


So, I have recently been using my PS3 as a media server and archiving CDs I like to listen to in MP3 format. I've been encoding my CDs at 192kbps and honestly didn't give much thought to the bitrate and it's effect on sound quality. I was about 10 CDs in.. and I encoded Amanda Marshall's self titled CD. Hrmm.


I punched up the first song on the disc - Let It Rain. "I have given, I have given.. And got [email protected]#[email protected]$#$" Eww? What was that. I play it over again. "I have given, I have given.. And got [email protected]#[email protected]$#$" What was this awful digital noise I was hearing? Am I actually hearing this? So I did an experiment. I encoded the same song, at 128kbps, 192kbps, and 320kbps and had my gf help me with a blind experiment. It was very easy to tell which was 320kbps because it didn't have the artifacts in the top end of the scale. And after listening and listening I figured out what the 192kbps MP3 couldn't handle.


"I have given, I have given.. And got none" When she says "none.." there is vibrato in her voice along with a steel guitar strum. The lower encoding adds artifacts to the high end of the guitar and mixes the vibrato in her voice with the guitar. It sounds awful. At higher rates of encoding the separation is kept between her voice and the guitar. Also, the brightness from the steel strings is retained at the higher encoding rates.


Anyway, this was a real eye opener for me as I don't often (well, until recently) play MP3s though my modest audio system (Onkyo + Mission). Typically MP3 listening is though my iPod headphones.

 

[Bobcel]

You should try converting to flac and see if you hear a further difference.

 

[sharkshark]

got my whole library done in 224VBR now that iPODs finally got big enough (160gb) for a good chunk of my music... I did a/b with lossless and through the ipod's headphone jack there was next to no difference with my Sure 5Cs, and of course you could only get a smaller percentage of tunes on the thing.


Through the PS3 there's some conversion going on (seems impossible to leave this stuff alone on this player), but it does a decent trick for anything that I'm casually listening to. For anything I actually am doing serious, critical listening with I of course use source.


Try VBR and Tversity and it might actually do a better job than 300+mb/s, and be sure to rip with a good encoder like LAME. Set it at V0 ("extreme", which fits AVSers nicely) and you'll be fine for almost everything you own.

 

[razel]

If your PS3 is connected digital (optical or HDMI) to your receiver, then the PS3 is resampling your (I'm assuming) 44k sampling rate mp3s as 48k.


Are you also familiar with the LAME mp3 encoder? It's one of the very best and am interesting with testing it's sound quality through your ears with it's various recommended presets. One of which is a variable bitrate preset at 192k.

 

[bad_pool]

This reminds me of when I did a listening test about 5 years ago. I was deciding between two different DAPs: the 3rd generation iPod (the one with four buttons near the screen) and the Rio Karma. I knew the iPod didn't support ogg vorbis, and I knew the Karma didn't support AAC, so I encoded several of my favorite songs in varying levels of quality in MP3, AAC, OGG, and WMA (just for kicks - I wasn't seriously considering WMA). I found that AAC sounded better to my ears at most bitrates, so I bought the iPod and I've stuck with AAC ever since.


Though I've tested mp3 w/ LAME since then and I've found it to be very very good and I'm surprised that you are hearing artifacts. I'm always looking for recordings that push audio codecs to their limits, so I'll have to pick up that CD

 

[whoaru99]

I'm curious too, what codec and or program were you using to make the MP3s?

 

[spincycle79]

Hi Folks,


sharkshark: To answer your question, yes, it's connected via the optical link. So perhaps what I'm hearing is the conversion between different sampling frequencies?


all: I am familar with LAME and I think I might setup an experiment where LAME encode the music on my laptop and steam it to my PS3 via an DLNA server. Right now, I just pop the CDs into my PS3 and hit "encode" I'm not sure what encoding engine the PS3 is using.

 

[Raymond Leggs]

well if the MP3 is improperly encoded it will sound bad if it is done correctly it will sound good.

 

[oztech]

Apple lossless on my I-Pod and MacBook Pro.

 

[razel]



Quote:
Originally Posted by spincycle79 /forum/post/14220161


all: I am familar with LAME and I think I might setup an experiment where LAME encode the music on my laptop and steam it to my PS3 via an DLNA server.

Unfortunately, the PS3 will still output your 44k sampling rate mp3s as 48k even through DLNA. Since you're interested in experimenting it's mp3 vs original output, the only way I can think of is to make a CD with two tracks:


1. original WAV

2. original WAV - ripped to mp3 - mp3 decoded back as WAV


Since your optical, you just need to set your PS3 to 44/88/176k with bitmapping off. That'll output CDs at 44, 88 or 176 depending on which are checked in your sound settings. If you only check 2 channel 44k/48k then you turned the PS3 into a CD transport.


I hope Sony eventually allows output of audio formats in their original state and hopefully the newer PS3s with the shrunken chips and newer heatsinks later this year will allow me to listen to at least one album without the fan being audible. Right now, my 1st revision 60gb can play for about 15-30 minutes depending on room temperature whisper quiet at it's lowest fan speed.

 

[Jeff Flowerday]



Quote:
Originally Posted by spincycle79 /forum/post/14166963


I'm not sure what forum this belongs in.. but I just wanted to share a recent experience with other audiophiles.


So, I have recently been using my PS3 as a media server and archiving CDs I like to listen to in MP3 format. I've been encoding my CDs at 192kbps and honestly didn't give much thought to the bitrate and it's effect on sound quality. I was about 10 CDs in.. and I encoded Amanda Marshall's self titled CD. Hrmm.


I punched up the first song on the disc - Let It Rain. "I have given, I have given.. And got [email protected]#[email protected]$#$" Eww? What was that. I play it over again. "I have given, I have given.. And got [email protected]#[email protected]$#$" What was this awful digital noise I was hearing? Am I actually hearing this? So I did an experiment. I encoded the same song, at 128kbps, 192kbps, and 320kbps and had my gf help me with a blind experiment. It was very easy to tell which was 320kbps because it didn't have the artifacts in the top end of the scale. And after listening and listening I figured out what the 192kbps MP3 couldn't handle.


"I have given, I have given.. And got none" When she says "none.." there is vibrato in her voice along with a steel guitar strum. The lower encoding adds artifacts to the high end of the guitar and mixes the vibrato in her voice with the guitar. It sounds awful. At higher rates of encoding the separation is kept between her voice and the guitar. Also, the brightness from the steel strings is retained at the higher encoding rates.


Anyway, this was a real eye opener for me as I don't often (well, until recently) play MP3s though my modest audio system (Onkyo + Mission). Typically MP3 listening is though my iPod headphones.

CBR or VBR? If CBR, I'd be interested to hear if the artifact went away with VBR.

 

[get_zwole]

if im hooked up with hdmi to a onkyo 606 do i turn the bitmapping off? and is mp3, wav, or atrac better for copying to the harddrive thanks.