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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello Everyone,


I have met my match on researching angled LCR speakers for my new 5.1 system. I know all of the pros and cons here and will be doing my best to mitigate some of them, but I don't have a choice on placement. The wall with the TV is a plaster wall which is in front of brick wall - no way to mount speakers here - so ceiling it is because the wife wants them hidden.


Here is what I need - help from you with what you may know about some of the brands I will have below, any pros/cons, and to add to the list if I missed something. I have no way to hear all of these speakers here in Indianapolis - so be my ears for me if you will.

Details on the room and setup:

* TV will be above a 4.5 ft mantle

* Sitting area is 10ft back from TV with an 8ft ceiling

* Floors are hardwood

* Ceiling and Walls are Plaster (yes the room is lively and they may factor in what you recommend as it may not be worth my money to do really high end items)

* Looking to stay at 200-300 per speaker, but willing to consider something else if it is just going to work perfectly

* Need to stick to round speakers due to ceiling configuration

* Will be powered by a Marantz 1504 or 1403 unit

* Will be used for mostly movies, but hoping that soundstage will support hearing the wonderful soundtracks as well as the surround effects


Now - here is the list that I have accumulated. I have two hopes - one that this threads help highlight the large number of speakers out there and two, that we can define the good, bad, and ugly out of the group.

Paradigm

CS-60R-30
http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/in-wall-in-ceiling/paradigm/cs-series/cs-60r-30

Notes - I like the sound, but do not see a lot of recent reviews on these.

Angle: 30

Earthquake

SS82W
http://www.hometheatergear.com/product/SS82W/Earthquake-8%22-SweetSpot-Angled-In-Ceiling-Speaker.html?gclid=CJ-VxPnbxrYCFelAMgod_2UAAQ

Notes - Heard a small local installer and they were not bad, but no reviews anywhere.

Angle: 20

Monoprice

4929
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10837&cs_id=1083703&p_id=4929&seq=1&format=2

Notes - Seems to have some reliable follows out there and price is good, but what do they sound like.

Angle: 15

MTX

HT625AC
http://www.amazon.com/HT625AC-Theater-Ceiling-Speaker-Electronics/dp/B0006TVW1Q/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

Notes - none

Angle: 15

Episode

ES-500-POINT-6
http://www.snapav.com/p-413-es-500-point-6.aspx

Notes - none

Angle: 15

Dayton

ME650C
http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/me650c-6-1-2-lcrs-15-angled-ceiling-speaker.html

Notes - none

Angle: 15

InWallTech

HD-650A
http://www.inwallstore.com/InwallTech_HD_650A_Angled_Ceiling_Speakers_p/hd650a.htm

Notes - Great bulk price and on site reviews, but nothing out in the real world that I know of.

Angle: 20

Legrand

7000 Series HT7655
http://www.legrand.us/onq/audio-video/speakers/home-theater-speakers/ht7655.aspx

Notes - none

Angle: unknown

Proficient

C870, C840, C660, C655, C650
http://www.proficientaudio.com/products/home-theater/ceiling-lcr-speakers

Notes - Wide variety of selection between quality to price

Angle: 15

Speakercraft

Aim8 One
http://www.amazon.com/Speakercraft-Fidelity-Pivoting-In-Ceiling-Speaker/dp/B000U7NGCW

Notes - none

Angle - unknown


So - that is my selection so far - I may update this with the woofer and tweeter material if everyone feels it would help. Tell me what you think and let me know if you need more info.
 

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Paradigm is the best choice of the ones listed.  The extra degree of angle is worth it and a decent speaker as well.  I wouldn't look further.   The only ones I know that angle more are not round.  Speakercraft is 15 degrees BTW. 
 

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For your front three I would consider these:
http://www.definitivetech.com/products/uiw-rcs-iii


You can find them on Ebay from trusted sellers for about $350-375 per speaker. You can save money on the surrounds to get the better mains. $90 per speaker or less puts you into 18 degree angled speakers from HTD:
http://www.htd.com/Products/high-definition/HD-R65AIM-ceiling-speakers


$159 per pair. They are decent speakers for surrounds.


No matter what, you really need to factor in a good subwoofer too. You are just not going to get strong bass from in-ceiling speakers.
 

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I would also look into these:
http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/icb8lcr.html


They are going to be more than your $200-300 budget, but again, you can save on the surrounds.


If there are rooms above this room I would not go with a speaker that is not enclosed. I am in that situation now and am going to have to replace my Speakercraft AIM speakers. The bleed through is very noticeable.
 

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The Def Techs would be a good choice but they are not round which is what he wanted.  I'd also avoid pivoting tweeter designs, when they don't angle the same as the woofer you lose some cohesiveness in dispersion.  That is the reason why some manufacturers don't use pivoting tweeters in their in wall or in ceiling designs or some pivot both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I will check and see if the ceiling can accomodate the square design of the deftechs - those are really nice and have heard other good reviews of them. The soundbar I listened to was missing a lot of the higher notes - what are your opinions of them?


BobL - what other speakers would you recommend if not for the round aspect?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by larcklorn  /t/1468151/angled-lcr-ceiling-speakers-for-5-1-system#post_23204177


I will check and see if the ceiling can accomodate the square design of the deftechs - those are really nice and have heard other good reviews of them. The soundbar I listened to was missing a lot of the higher notes - what are your opinions of them?


BobL - what other speakers would you recommend if not for the round aspect?

Soundbar tp me means better than the TV speakers, but they really are not on the same level as bookshelf or floor standing speakers (or in-wall). Typically soundbars have small tweeters, woofers, and enclosures. There is only so much you can do with that design and it limits the ability to get good dynamic sound. I have friends that just don't care much for audio but want something better than their TV speakers, and seem happy with soundbars but I would never recommend them to people who want more.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by larcklorn  /t/1468151/angled-lcr-ceiling-speakers-for-5-1-system#post_23204177


I will check and see if the ceiling can accomodate the square design of the deftechs - those are really nice and have heard other good reviews of them. The soundbar I listened to was missing a lot of the higher notes - what are your opinions of them?


BobL - what other speakers would you recommend if not for the round aspect?

The Triads and DefTechs are very similar in design and both good choices (if not above your budget and square)... keep in mind they have MDF enclosures which, while sounding better than open designs, do require support from rafters/joists (the DT RCS III are the lightest of the bunch at 13 lbs). I'll be purchasing either the DefTechs or the Triads in the near future, moving from a decent soundbar. A soundbar is definitely a step up from most TV speakers, but nowhere near full surround. I've had 5.1 & 7.1 surround in the past, but could not do bookshelf, floorstanders or in-walls in my current room, so opted for a good soundbar instead of in-ceiling (given that I've never been that impressed with in-ceiling setups). While the soundbar does widen the soundstage and even present some effects from the right/left walls, there is no convincing surround effect. I'm going to give the angled baffle in-ceiling speakers a try, as the ones I've heard in the past were angled tweeters and simple whole-house round (non-angled) in ceiling speakers. Klipsch makes some THX labeled in-ceilings that are round and have gotten some good press as well, but they are very pricey.
 

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The Triad and Deftech as mentioned.  Episode and JBL makes some with good angles as well.  An enclosed  speaker is always better.  You can get a back box for the Paradigms if needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL  /t/1468151/angled-lcr-ceiling-speakers-for-5-1-system#post_23204600


The Triad and Deftech as mentioned.  Episode and JBL makes some with good angles as well.  An enclosed  speaker is always better.  You can get a back box for the Paradigms if needed.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Any thoughts on the GoldenEar SuperCinema 3D?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by larcklorn  /t/1468151/angled-lcr-ceiling-speakers-for-5-1-system#post_23205228


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Any thoughts on the GoldenEar SuperCinema 3D?

If you are looking for a soundbar, it looks okay. Again, the challenge with these soundbars is getting good sound from smaller drivers, in a small enclosure. Many times the specs on these soundbars are very optimisitc in terms of useable bass. GE specs shows that it plays to 60hz, but in reality it may only be 100-120hz of effective bass. I would look for some trusted reviews with actual measurements to see useable the bass is on these. I would also plan on integrating a good subwoofer and crossing over in the 80-100hz range.


I do like the ribbon tweeters on some of the other GE speakers I listened to. Dialogue was very clear. The only other concern I have with these soundbars is off-axis response. If you do demo one, make sure you sit off-axis to the center of the speaker as well when testing.
 

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Sound bars have their own tradeoffs and you'll have to choose which direction you want to go.  The advantage over an in ceiling LCRs is it is close to the same height as the TV so it is easier for our mind to relate the sound with the screen, if mounted with the flat screen it can be angled with the TV towards the listening area.  The disadvantages are typically smaller speaker drivers, usually 3-4" midrange vs. 6-8" in a ceiling speaker.  The sound bars aren't that wide so you are losing L/R separation and a wider soundstage.

 

Specifically to the Golden Ear Bar, it is an MTM design for all three of the LCR speakers.  This will have limited horizontal dispersion, seating off to the side won't be as good with the sound bar.  Speaker Bars with the tweeters on the outside of the bar will be better for a wider dispersion.  With ribbons in general they typically have poor vertical dispersion so make sure the sound bar is angled toward the listening area.  A regular tweeter might be more forgiving if it is mounted flat to the wall.  If you like ribbons I think the Martin Logan looks like a better design.  I haven't listened to either so I can't comment on the sound of either just the basic design.

 

Another option if you are willing to go a sound bar is to use a more traditional on wall LCR set up with the L/R speakers to the side of the TV and the center below it.  I'm not sure if that would work for your situation or aesthetics.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon  /t/1468151/angled-lcr-ceiling-speakers-for-5-1-system#post_23209218


I've installed many Triad In-Ceiling speakers with a 45 degree angle and they sound exactly like they're coming from the TV screen. Very impressive.
Much depends on the ceiling height, listening distance and screen height, but yes, that can be true, so long as your eyes are open. The brain gives preference to visual cues over aural, so when your eyes tell the brain that the screen is where the sound is coming from it overrules what the ears are saying. If you close your eyes, though, the ears then determine the true source. My center is two feet below my screen center, and offset to one side, but you can't tell that so long as the TV is on.

However, it is critical that the speaker is aimed at the LP, as the Triad does. If it's down firing, or if only the tweeter aims back towards the LP, most of the sound will be heard as a reflection, rather than directly, and it just won't sound right.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon  /t/1468151/angled-lcr-ceiling-speakers-for-5-1-system#post_23209218


I've installed many Triad In-Ceiling speakers with a 45 degree angle and they sound exactly like they're coming from the TV screen. Very impressive.

Has anyone installed the Triads as rear surround speakers? Based on the rather odd back wall layout of the basement in our new home, I can only mount one of my two Axiom QS8 to the rear wall. The other would have to have off of their ceiling mount bracket and it would look really goofy having this one (rather large at that) speaker hanging down 9". I've spent the entire evening looking for alternatives for the rear surround speakers. The previous owner has a set of rear surrounds installed in the ceiling, but they are junk and fire straight downward...a complete no no.


So...can these Triad's serve a purpose for rear surrounds? I've spent over an hour searching and this doesn't seem to be a common issue.


For the record, I could always get Axiom's speakers stands for the QS8 and route the wire under the carpet when the new carpet is installed, but I'm not crazy about the idea of two big speaker stands sitting directly behind/beside my couch. Plus this this gives the two year old something else to knock over.


If the Triads will work, then unfortunately I'm starting to transform into a hodge podge system. It could potentially look like this: Axiom M60 towers, Polk center (replaced the crappy Axiom VP150 on wall/in wall speaker), HSU research sub, and Triad surrounds (replacing the Axiom QS8 due to lack of "mountability" in my new basement).


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


BTW...where in the world can one find these Paradigm speakers referenced???
 

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will have them in my new home for lcr and rears....had a hard time finding reviews as well but i listened to them at the design studio when making selections for our house and they sounded pretty good - i only watched transformers there for about 10 min but i think i will be happy - my room is 12x17 and i need the space on the sides of the screen which is why i went in ceiling - will know more at the end of the year after we are moved in
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiSoC8Y  /t/1468151/angled-lcr-ceiling-speakers-for-5-1-system#post_24726575


hi all,


so anyone tested the Paradigm CS-60R-30 for LCR and rear speakers? We would appreciate your feedback.


thanks

Can't help you out there, but the general consensus/wisdom is you get better sound from in-ceiling/in-wall speakers with a back-box.
 
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