[GaryH]

The trucking company dropped it off today. Wow is this thing big and heavy. I'll need to eat more Wheaties to more this brute around. Now for the setup. So many options. I've read all the post on this forum and others and I think I have a pretty good idea how I'm going to wire the sub.

Now I'm off to wake up the neighborhood!!

 

[ChuckTraywick]

Congrats Gary. Please post up your thoughts when you get a chance.


Chuck

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Gary, you will luv your new Aerial sub. Have you also read the many posts on subwoofers and Aerial subwoofers in the AV Science Tweaks forum? If not, I suggest you come on over, as since last October there have been a number of posts there as well.

 

[aerialman]

although I am not affiliated with Aerial Acoustics in any way, as a fan of their products I want to say "congratulations!" this is a fine piece of equipment you have there, Im sure youll enjoy it a ton.


- Jerry

 

[mdavis]

Welcome to the club. You're going to be amazed by the performance.


Best Regards, Mark

 

[Archangel]

Jerry, Chuck, and Steve (or the Aerial Men),


Is there any print reviews on this model? Not to sound naive, but isn't $4900 dollars alot for a sub...that is even more than the Talon Audio "Roc" (which the whole line,-Talon-, is a bit expensive). I may be wrong...but I think I read that one of you Aerial boys Has two of these models. If so, you must have deep pockets and no neighbors! Is this model that good!!


Michael

 

[aerialman]

Michael,

see a few months ago SGHT mag- the cover says "aerial attack" you can guestimate how the article goes, but basically this guy was gushing all over the system and most of it was on the sub. is it worth 4900? thats a personal call. youre right in that its pricy. but we get back to the question of whats it worth to you? I can get to point B from point A in a $9000 automobile just as well (well, maybe almost) as a $60k Mercedes- yet some people buy the merc. A more on point comparison might be between the faroudja processors and the new batch of competitors. the new processors deliver most of the faroudja's performance, but yet the faroudjas still offer some added value. Is it worth 2x the price of the other processor? that depends on you.


its the same thing here. I can tell you that I came from a $400 paradigm sub, which was okay and I tried the sunfire sub, and when the sw12 came into my system I noticed a huge difference that the others couldnt match. The paradigm didnt "move" me and in fact when I got the aerial 10t speakers I stoped using it. I tried the sunfire and found out it only is effective on really low bass. The sw12 sounds great at the "higher sub" frequencies and can really move the air in my ~4000 room (this is with its volume set to 1/4 of max output). Theres no denying its a great sub and probably should belong in the top tier of subs.


The sw12 not only has the sound quality, it has fine furniture level build quality and has the flexibility to integrate into almost any system (I think it only lacks speaker level inputs and it wouldnt be used in that system anyhow). All I can tell you is that Im no expert on subs, but the sw12 plays wonderful with my system (10ts and cc3 center). THe people that have added a second and even third ones say it only gets better. I suspect this is the same thing as spending the big money on one of these- the improvements are dimishing- so the question one has to answer is at what point is good enough, enough? thats a personal question; and therefore there is more than one or even two right answers.


- Jerry


[This message has been edited by aerialman (edited June 28, 2000).]

 

[Archangel]

Jerry,


I did not mean to sound glib...I realize quality costs money...but there does come a point where quality gives into profit. I have no doubt

that the SW-12 is one of the best subs out there, just witnessed by the Michael Kelley and Aerial reputation. But B&W has a top line sub, the ASW4000, for $3000...if you went on cost alone...would the SW-12 be 35-40% better performance-wise than the ASW4000 as warranted by the cost differences. Then you get the Talon Audio "Roc" which says its better than the SW-12 due to different technology. What price do we put on new technology. I guess we let the market dictate...if Talon or Aerial has customers at this price point then they have done a good job in their research...if not they will have to lower their prices.


I guess that enough from me...its just hard to get a home theater speaker system all in the same family on somewhat of a budget...there is always one piece of the family that price-wise is out of reach. I would like to buy the Aerials, but the SW-12 is out of my budget. The Talons (if...a big if they are as revolutionary as they say) the whole family is expensive. This keeps my research coming back to B&W Nautilus.



Michael

 

[mdavis]

The Aerial SW-12 is probably the single piece of equipment that I have been most impressed with -- I have 10ts, cc3, sr3s, a couple of classe amps, a lexicon, a slew of harmonic tech. cables, dedicated lines, and the list goes on...


Some of the things I like about it -- off the top of my head:


+ Exceptional sound quality for both music and HT -- the ability to seemlessly integrate with your system...unbelivable amount of punch, yet extremely clear and realistic...Is able to illustrate the fact that there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of information that the 10Ts are not giving you.

+ Notch Filter EQ to adjust for the room

+ Machined Remote, although the way other remotes can interfere with the unit is quite annoying

+ Superb 30+lb driver (12.5" w/2" of linear movement -- Michael claims this moves about 90% of the air of an 18")

+ Excellent cabinet construction

+ Custom made stand w/spikes

+ XLR capability -- in addition to a bazillion inputs/outputs, adjustable low/high pass filters, etc..

+ A very high quality amp

+ Excellent quality

+ The ability for it to move air like you cannot imagine -- a guest, sitting 15+ feet from the subbwoofer, commented that she felt like she was in a windstorm and that her hair was getting messed up...This was after playing some rather bass heavy material, I must admit. However, my system is relatively flat and you don't see any type of significant pressure change as you go into the very low frequencies -- think Pomp & Pipes. If you play at reference level, as silly as that would be, you might do harm to the structural integrity of your home -- I'm seriously getting worried about my cathedral great room. I'm going to need to build a house with a dedicated room sometime in the near future.


Did I say the sound was stunning??? Again, this was the single biggest thing I ever did to my system...period. Absolutely state-of-the-art -- and absolutely impressive. In this case, I have to admit that I think you get what you pay for -- and for $4.5-$6k that's a lot of performance.


Get one while you can.


Regards, Mark



------------------

--

Mark C. Davis

[email protected]

 

[Christopher Calder]

I can't see paying that kind of money for a subwoofer. If I bought one made by someone else I would get the Velodyne 15" unit. Its a sealed system with low distortion and motion feedback, about $2,500. Ported designs are inherently inferior in my opinion. I can always hear the port, the pumping, and the murky phase distortions.


The cheap way to get a good subwoofer system is to buy two 15" woofers with a Fs of 20hz or less, a Qts of .4 or more, and a very long throw. Install them in a sealed enclosure stuffed with damping material in a face to face, push-pull compound load configuration. Connect the woofers out of phase electrically to make them in phase acoustically. Compound loading cuts the VAS in half and allows very deep bass with good efficiency with a 3 or 4 cubic foot enclosure. Madisound has woofers at a reasonable price. Best to make stereo pairs (use 4 woofers total) and add an electronic crossover which you can also get from Madisound.



[This message has been edited by Christopher Calder (edited June 28, 2000).]

 

[mdavis]

Chris:


You do not note where you live (state) and I understand how one could be skeptical for such a thing. However, I suggest you listen to the Aerial design (do you have a good dealer in your area?). If not, maybe some AVS Forum members are in your area?? Be sure the subwoofer is properly setup. Michael is aware of the inherent issues with ports and has chosen to design his subwoofer this way for a reason. Bring the woofer you describe or a Velodyne HGS-15 and compare them for yourself. I could have bought almost three HGS-18s new for the cost of one Aerial subwoofer, but after listening to both of them, I decided to get the Aerial -- there simply is no comparison. The Aerial is incredibly musical.


Is you want to compare the Aerial to its competition (in the commercial market), look at:


1. REL Studio II ($8k)

2. Krell ($28k)

3. Wilson XS ($18k + $4k crossover)


I'm sure I missed some though.



Regards, Mark


------------------

--

Mark C. Davis

[email protected]





[This message has been edited by mdavis (edited June 28, 2000).]

 

[aerialman]

Mark,

I think you left out the "profunder" which I think is 6k w/o amp.


I remember reading somewhere that with todays technology you cant just state that since a speaker uses a ported design its inherently bad. The same goes for xover networks- some people wont buy speakers unless they use only 1st order xovers between drivers. the best design is the one that meets the designers goals and satisfies you, the customer. I have never heard the sub "scarfing" for air except when I played a test tone and I accidentially had the volume way too high.


Ive said it before, and Ill say it again, Im sure if you are a knowledgable DIYer with subs, you could get similar performance- but many of us are not DIYers and there is a certain amount of R&D that went into this sub. Im extremely happy with the sw12 and I dont think the price (while steep) is unwarranted. You do get a lot of extras with this sub that, depending on your system, could be very useful.


Ive only heard the B&W sub in a store- it sounded nice, but it was a 5-10 minute "demo" I think it was with the N803s. Nice setup- I wont compare to my setup since Ive lived with my setup.


- Jerry


[This message has been edited by aerialman (edited June 28, 2000).]

 

[GaryH]

Michael,


My audio/video system was and is being built on a tight budget. The Aerial SW-12 was a pricey, but I found one for less than retail. It is a really an amazing sub. I have not listen to the subs you mentioned but since I have all Aerial speakers, the SW-12 was a natural. I think is's worth the money. But others will say different. I've had mine two weeks now and I'm still amazed at how good it makes my entire system sound.


Gary

 

[ChuckTraywick]

Michael ; Mark :


On the value issue , tough call. What something is worth to another person is hard to figure.


I can relate my experiences though.


First we have all Aerial speakers except for the Velodyne's (two FSR15's).


We did not purchase the speakers all at once. We started with the 10T's about five years ago and gradually added the CC3 and SR3's.


Each time we added speakers we did listening tests. To our ears the Aerial speakkers were at or near the top each time we purchased them.


So, over the years Aerial has developed some "good will" with us.


I knew Aerial was working on a sub for quite a long time.


Like you when I heard the price I thought "these guys are nuts". But, because I have never purchased an Aerial product I did not like I ask the dealer to let me use one in my home for a week or so.


He complied and sent me the SW12. It did not go back.


My wife likes movies and music but she does not have the "eyes glaze over syndrome" when discussing music or movies or HT.


She was impressed at what these speakers do for the sound.


Could they sell them for less? I don't know. I talked with Mike Kelly (@ Aerial) and he said they had a very high qualiy amp , some custom made drivers, very sturdy cabinet and a furniture finish) so he convinced me that they had costs involved that made the price what it is.


If I were starting our from scratch and had to get a complete speaker set up the cost of the SW12's would preclude them from this type of purchase for me because of the cost.


However, since we did not have that situation we were able to bring it in.


It is simply an amazing speaker. If you are looking you should do a serious autition. I do not mean 15 minutes. I mean a serious audition.


This speaker needs to be set up properly, that is very key. Some dealers do a less than perfect job of this. So to get a proper evaluation you need to verify that the speaker is set up right.


I can only relate my expereinces. We have two Velodyne subs (FSR15's).


While the Velodyne's are good products the Aerials are simply superior.


Before you judge you should listen for your self. The quality of bass does so much for music and movies it is hard to describe it accurately.


It's not a perfect product. The remote system has some issues.


But, with that said it is truly an excellent product.


Doing bass right is not an easy thing to do apparently. if it were then no one would spend greater sums for these products.


You can always find a way to get better products into your system on a budget. People upgrade, change their mind, dealers have demo's etc.


We have built our system piece meal, that makes it a tad easier. We have a good relationship with our dealer and he looks out for us from time to time. Someone may trade in something that is in good shape. he knows what our interests are and can find good deals for us. This , of course, does not help on all things.


Value is such a personal thing it is hard to say to someone else what something is worth.


But, I can say this, I like good equipment and will pay for it when I find it, but do not buy anything with checking it out.


Christopher:


Most people will not have the skills to do a decent DIY speaker. Plus, I doubt a DIY speaker will even come close to what these better subs can do in terms of performance.


With all due respect I think it is a mistake to say that a given technology or approach is wrong. Just because it has a specific design approach does not make it an inferior product. Have you done a serious listen of this sub?



Archangel:


I have a friend that has two ASW4000 in his system (all B & W) I am planning to get him to come over (he lives at a distance) and when he does I'll be able to share his thoughts with everyone on the B & W versus the Aerial sub.


Chuck


------------------

Chuck Traywick

Kitty Hawk, NC