[sid369]

I am going to be meeting with Guardian technology today, they are the vendor our builder uses for pre-wiring, home theater etc.


From what I have heard is that their pricing is high, but I am also wondering if this can be done after the house is built?


I am planning to have my HT set up in the family room, and initially though would run the speaker wires under the baseboard or carpet. Should I instead have the speaker wires go into the wall socket etc.


Also, I m reading lot of pre-wires for cat6 etc? what doe sit do and why is it needed.


I am such a noob in this that I don't even know if I am asking the right questions.


Please suggest

 

[jautor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23159394


I am going to be meeting with Guardian technology today, they are the vendor our builder uses for pre-wiring, home theater etc.


From what I have heard is that their pricing is high, but I am also wondering if this can be done after the house is built?

Whatever they charge, it will be much more expensive to do after the house it built. Bite the bullet and get everything you'll want (and some smart future-proofing) now. "High" may be relative and we don't know who's opinion that was... Expect $75-125 per cable run as a range for them to do any additions.

Quote:
I am planning to have my HT set up in the family room, and initially though would run the speaker wires under the baseboard or carpet. Should I instead have the speaker wires go into the wall socket etc.

Do it correctly - have the wires run, you don't want to live with lumps in the carpet or other retro-fit "solutions" when you can avoid it now.

Quote:
Also, I m reading lot of pre-wires for cat6 etc? what doe sit do and why is it needed.

Read just about any thread in this forum. Cat6 (or cat5e) is for Ethernet networking, and is the swiss army knife of wires - it gets used for a whole bunch of possible A/V purposes, including HD video distribution (HDMI-over-cat5).


Jeff

 

[sid369]

I will get to know the exact pricing today, but I found this online who used the same company and this is what they got charged.


Outlets and Connections

Smart Connections Package with router $1,060

3 Cable outlets

2 Data outlets

1 4 port Multimedia outlet


Six Pack of Wall Outlets $495

Any 6 outlets



the builder will provide 2 cable and 2 data outlets. Isn't that enough, with being able to use everything on Wi-Fi these days. I don't remember when I last used Ethernet connection on my laptop in my home.

I can see that cable outlets may be handy in other bedrooms but other than that do I really need anything else.





"Do it correctly - have the wires run, you don't want to live with lumps in the carpet or other retro-fit "solutions" when you can avoid it now."


The reason for saying that I will run wires under carpet etc, is because I don't know how we will set up the TV in the family room and may change it after.

 

[M1chael]

sid369-


I am a fellow Delawarean and may be able to provide some assistance with local vendors to install your LV wiring. Just send me a PM if you are interested or have any further questions.


I agree with Jautor, get it done now if you can spare the little bit of extra expense. Otherwise, you will be dealing with a higher expense / headache if you need to retrofit and have someone come in there and cut out drywall / or find wire pathing solutions.


Oh yeah, and don't forget about wiring for distributed audio. A lot of folks don't understand until they have it how much they enjoy music around the house.

 

[jautor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23160128


Six Pack of Wall Outlets $495

Any 6 outlets

That's actually at the cheap end of the spectrum...

Quote:
the builder will provide 2 cable and 2 data outlets. Isn't that enough, with being able to use everything on Wi-Fi these days. I don't remember when I last used Ethernet connection on my laptop in my home.

Wired Ethernet is much better for fixed devices, for reliability, performance and ease-of-use. Mobile devices like laptops obviously belong usually on WiFi. And more importantly, the cat5e cables run for wired Ethernet can be used for a wide range of other A/V purposes.

Quote:
I can see that cable outlets may be handy in other bedrooms but other than that do I really need anything else.

Every bedroom should have at least one cat5e and coax outlet. I recommend at a *minimum* that you should be able to reach a cat5e outlet from anywhere in the room without crossing a door frame, which typically means at least two outlets per bedroom. These can also double as phone outlets.

Quote:
The reason for saying that I will run wires under carpet etc, is because I don't know how we will set up the TV in the family room and may change it after.

You handle those cases correctly by running wires to more than one place. If there are two (or three) likely candidate walls for the TV to go, you should run wire to both. Wire and the labor are cheap - buying gear to make up for lack of wire is expensive and always has compromises...


Jeff

 

[sid369]

Ok so I met with the Guardian company rep yesterday and he was trying to sell us everything.


I want to make sure I buy the right things.


He started with security, which will be $45 a month and we will have to be with them for 5 years. Since they are giving us equipment worth $2000 ( to break even and make a little profit) his words. He said its a GE platform which we can expand to automation etc. later.


I think I will get the security system later through another vendor. However my question is do I need to pre-wire for security system as well?



TV over fireplace $440, it includes 1 hdmi, coaxial and I other cable which I forget now.


5.1 pre-wiring $570

7.1 pre-wiring &750


Extra Cable or Data outlet -$95 each.


Out of the 4 outlets the we get I can use 1 for phone in the kitchen (we are not going to get an landline) just putting it in there for future resale etc. 3 can be used as cable.


So help me here so that I get this right

1 cable outlet family room

1 cable outlet master bedroom

1 cable outlet in study (thinking of setting up the Verizon router in the study) He said to have the router in the basement near the Box and then run a data cable to the study. I am not sure about this part.

1 data outlet for phone in kitchen.



Now, the family room as I image will have a TV stand which will have the receiver and then all the wires will go into the receiver and tv.


I am not sure where to put the router? If I put the router in the study, how will I be able to connect the Ethernet to the receiver and xbox and TV (for Netflix). Do I need to have an extra data outlet in the family room.



The way he explained (which was not very easy) is to have the router in the basement and then have data outlets in the rooms that I want to get Ethernet connection.


However, my reasoning is that ipad and MacBook airs don't have wired connectivity, everything is wireless. except for where there is the tv and receiver where I need ether connections.


So Please help me figure this part out.



I also asked if I could pre-wire for outdoor speakers and any other room, its $275 for a pair.


I then asked if I could from the pair have one prewired for the patio and the other for another room . he said that it should be done in pairs. I don't know if he is right. This will be for zone 2 music..


surround.PNG 30k .PNG file


I have attached an image and the possible positioning of tv and pre-wires (what do you guys think for the pre-wires that I have marked. Not sure where the subwoofer outlet be positioned.


Suggest what I should be doing.

 

[sid369]



Quote:
Originally Posted by M1chael  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23160130


sid369-


I am a fellow Delawarean and may be able to provide some assistance with local vendors to install your LV wiring. Just send me a PM if you are interested or have any further questions.


I agree with Jautor, get it done now if you can spare the little bit of extra expense. Otherwise, you will be dealing with a higher expense / headache if you need to retrofit and have someone come in there and cut out drywall / or find wire pathing solutions.


Oh yeah, and don't forget about wiring for distributed audio. A lot of folks don't understand until they have it how much they enjoy music around the house.

M!chael, good to hear from a fellow Delawarean.


The builder won't allow any other contactors to come and do anything during the construction process. I just wrote a post if you have any inputs to share it would be great.

 

[jautor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23163089


Ok so I met with the Guardian company rep yesterday and he was trying to sell us everything.

A Salesman tried to sell you stuff???

Quote:
He started with security, which will be $45 a month and we will have to be with them for 5 years. Since they are giving us equipment worth $2000 ( to break even and make a little profit) his words. He said its a GE platform which we can expand to automation etc. later.

5 years is a long contract, but the rest is not out of line for an installed system.

Quote:
I think I will get the security system later through another vendor. However my question is do I need to pre-wire for security system as well?

Definitely want the pre-wiring at a minimum.

Quote:
TV over fireplace $440, it includes 1 hdmi, coaxial and I other cable which I forget now.

Should be a cat5e. You should really consider another location for the TV. This "TV over fireplace" trend is awful. The TV will generally be too high on the wall for comfortable viewing while sitting.

Quote:
5.1 pre-wiring $570

7.1 pre-wiring &750


Extra Cable or Data outlet -$95 each.

Those are in-line - but if they do the surround wiring, make sure you specify the speaker locations. Left alone, these can be placed in "poor" locations, especially in-ceiling locations for the L/C/R speakers. Avoid that.

Quote:
So help me here so that I get this right

1 cable outlet family room

1 cable outlet master bedroom

1 cable outlet in study (thinking of setting up the Verizon router in the study) He said to have the router in the basement near the Box and then run a data cable to the study. I am not sure about this part.

1 data outlet for phone in kitchen.

Router needs to be the first device after your modem, and before you distribute Ethernet to the rest of the house. This is normally placed in the central wiring location (along with the modem).

Quote:
Now, the family room as I image will have a TV stand which will have the receiver and then all the wires will go into the receiver and tv.


I am not sure where to put the router? If I put the router in the study, how will I be able to connect the Ethernet to the receiver and xbox and TV (for Netflix). Do I need to have an extra data outlet in the family room.

Placing the router elsewhere (other than the central wiring enclosure) means you'll need two data cables to that location, and then an additional Ethernet switch in the wiring enclosure to distribute Ethernet throughout the house. If you move your modem (and have enough wire run) to the study, you can do it that way, but the wiring topology may not be optimal for CATV, for example.

Quote:
The way he explained (which was not very easy) is to have the router in the basement and then have data outlets in the rooms that I want to get Ethernet connection.

That is correct.

Quote:
However, my reasoning is that ipad and MacBook airs don't have wired connectivity, everything is wireless. except for where there is the tv and receiver where I need ether connections.

Yes, everything is wireless except for the things that aren't.

Quote:
I also asked if I could pre-wire for outdoor speakers and any other room, its $275 for a pair.

Not unreasonable, but not cheap.

Quote:
I then asked if I could from the pair have one prewired for the patio and the other for another room . he said that it should be done in pairs. I don't know if he is right. This will be for zone 2 music..

You should wire speakers in pairs.

Quote:
I have attached an image and the possible positioning of tv and pre-wires (what do you guys think for the pre-wires that I have marked. Not sure where the subwoofer outlet be positioned.

Are you thinking in-wall or in-ceiling for the surrounds? In-wall those locations look ok - for in-ceiling they don't. That diagram shows the TV on a different wall than the fireplace - which would be much better. Which way are you thinking, or were you just quoting his pricing for those services?


Jeff

 

[M1chael]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23163098


M!chael, good to hear from a fellow Delawarean.


The builder won't allow any other contactors to come and do anything during the construction process. I just wrote a post if you have any inputs to share it would be great.

I don't really have anything to add as far as the pricing is concerned.....I am not really up to par on pre-wire pricing these days but to me doesn't sound to bad.


I agree with everything Jautor said right down the line including router placement. Your best bet is to keep that with the rest of your gear in or near your equipment closet. You shouldn't have to many issues with wifi reception, I wouldn't think, with the router being in the basement. I have my setup a little bit different (I have a wired router in my basement and my wifi "access point" on the main floor in the office) but you should be good to go with your configuration.


Also, not sure if this was mentioned specifically or not, but if you are building a two story (even if its a one story really) see if the LV contractor or the builder himself can run you one or two runs of conduit to the attic for future expansion. It will save you a lot of grief in the future should you want to add that extra network drop or coax drop in your master bedroom!


And, don't forget about your garage (not sure how much time you spend out there) but it is enjoyable for me when I am tinkering around to have music on. I also have a coax and network drop out there for the future as well. Also, we don't really have a back porch or deck but I still have speakers in the back of my house for the future. The one thing I missed was putting some speakers on our front porch. We like to sit out there quite often when the weather is really nice but mostly this is because we do not have a space out back.


Sorry, just trying to give you some things to think about in case you passed them up BTW, what part of DE are you from....I am from Dover.

 

[sid369]

I guess the Verizon Fios router and modem is the same. So as you all suggested I should leave it in the central location in the basement and have data outlets in the rooms that I need Ethernet connection.


I will ask if they will put a PVS pipe from the basement all the way up to the attic, but as far as I know they won't and I don't know if I can go in and put it on my own.


Yes, I will be telling them the location of the speakers and it won't be in-ceiling speakers, I don't like that. The attachment was where I think I am thinking of placing the tv and speakers and wanted to know if that is a good location.

We don't want a TV over fireplace.



As far as security I did some research and found that Front Point security has good reviews and is wireless, which I can install on my own. I am thinking of going this route vs. pre-wiring for security.


Just so that I am clear.


I will ask them to put the Modem/router in the basement in the central location.


1 cable 1 data outlet in the family room


1 cable in master bedroom (do I need 1 data outlet in the master bedroom) can I use something like airport express to boost wireless


1 data in the study


1 cable outlet in each of the bedroom


Did I miss anything.



Dover, that's great I am up in Newark.

 

[jautor]

You should have at least one coax and a cat5e drop to most every room. All bedrooms, family room, study, garage, etc. Kitchen, dining should have a cat5e. Note that lots of young families utilize the dining room as a playroom or other purpose, so having a coax there for a TV can be very useful.

 

[M1chael]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention in my last post.....you keep mentioning "security" and I know your referencing alarm / door window contacts, etc but don't forget about the other aspect of security (i.e. cameras).


If they are any interest to you at all now is the time to start thinking about them. Running wires later to the specified locations would be a bear. I have about 8 or 9 ip cams hooked up and let me tell you they become really useful for driveway and front door viewing


If you do decide you would like to go ahead and bite the bullet and have wires ran for cameras, you just have to decide whether you want to go analog or ip. Personally I would go ip, that way you only have to run (1) cat5e wire to each camera location. IP cams give the benefit of increased resolution, network viewing away from home (smartphone), etc and other things. Basically IP cams are being used now more and more over analog choices.


You don't really have to concern yourself right away about the specifics (what to buy, etc) just need to have the wire ran now.

 

[sid369]

"You should have at least one coax and a cat5e drop to most every room. All bedrooms, family room, study, garage, etc. Kitchen, dining should have a cat5e. Note that lots of young families utilize the dining room as a playroom or other purpose, so having a coax there for a TV can be very useful"


Sorry for the noob question. Is coax=cable outlet and cat5e=data outlet. If this is true, leaving 1 for phone 1 will have 3 more as standard and then maybe add the 6 outlet package and have a total of 10 outlets which I think will be fine.



If you do decide you would like to go ahead and bite the bullet and have wires ran for cameras, you just have to decide whether you want to go analog or ip. Personally I would go ip, that way you only have to run (1) cat5e wire to each camera location. IP cams give the benefit of increased resolution, network viewing away from home (smartphone), etc and other things. Basically IP cams are being used now more and more over analog choices.


yes, I would like to eventually have set up cameras, internal as well as external and I think I would go with the IP camera's. How do I determine the location of the cameras. I kow you have 8or 9 of them, but I think I may not get as many as that, but maybe 3 or 4.


So cat5e wire to each location means 3or 4 outlets more, right.


I am using the word outlets so that I don't confuse myself, because the outlets will have the cat5e type wire, which I can use for various things except phone connection. Am I correct?

 

[jautor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23164265


Sorry for the noob question. Is coax=cable outlet and cat5e=data outlet. If this is true, leaving 1 for phone 1 will have 3 more as standard and then maybe add the 6 outlet package and have a total of 10 outlets which I think will be fine.

Yes, coax (RG6) is for "cable TV", and cat5e (Category 5e, twisted pair, aka "Ethernet cable") is for data (wired Ethernet), phone or a whole bunch of other potential A/V uses.


Ten outlets would give you coax+cat5e in five rooms. That is the bare minimum. If you want to do anything beyond basic A/V or networking in the house in the future, you'll want more.

Quote:
I am using the word outlets so that I don't confuse myself, because the outlets will have the cat5e type wire, which I can use for various things except phone connection. Am I correct?

No, cat5e can absolutely be used for phones - it began its life as "phone wire" and evolved to the high-performance twisted pair wire used today... No one should be running "phone wire" as cat5e wire is

 

[sid369]

As far as the ip cameras care concerned do I really have to have additional cat5e cable for the cam locations. Can the cameras not work on Wi-Fi or something.


I am sure there is technology today that can have camera set up in a house that is has not been pre-wired.

 

[M1chael]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23164265

yes, I would like to eventually have set up cameras, internal as well as external and I think I would go with the IP camera's. How do I determine the location of the cameras. I kow you have 8or 9 of them, but I think I may not get as many as that, but maybe 3 or 4.


So cat5e wire to each location means 3or 4 outlets more, right.


I am using the word outlets so that I don't confuse myself, because the outlets will have the cat5e type wire, which I can use for various things except phone connection. Am I correct?

Determining location can be somewhat difficult without having a camera to "test" the area. Sometimes people use smartphones to actually take a pic of the proposed area. Really, for what we use them for as homeowners getting exact / precise location really isn't all that important. So for example, for a front door area I would just put the wire in the corner that would direct down to the door and just leave yourself plenty of "pigtail" to move the wire once you actually get the cams. For the driveway, I would just run wire under the "eave" for example or in an area that is going to give you the image that you desire. Hope that makes sense?


And in reference to you saying outlets? I would not really refer to them as outlets per say, maybe drops? Basically just have the contractor run Cat5e to the desired location (leaving a pigtail of course) and then that goes back to the main equipment area with the rest of the wiring. Just leave both ends wrapped up or whatever until your going to use it...no biggie.


I am saying to only run (1) cat5e wire because these days a lot of ip cams are POE so they run their power of the same data cable. Personally that is all I would do because POE is going to be here to stay. All you need to later on is basically just buy you a cheap little POE switch and you are golden. We can cross that bridge later though...for now...just pick out a "desired" location (approximate location) and have the wire ran!


I will attach a pic of my front porch cam for reference.
2012-05-05_13-15-44_833.jpg 687k .jpg file

 

[sid369]



Quote:
Originally Posted by M1chael  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23164574


Determining location can be somewhat difficult without having a camera to "test" the area. Sometimes people use smartphones to actually take a pic of the proposed area. Really, for what we use them for as homeowners getting exact / precise location really isn't all that important. So for example, for a front door area I would just put the wire in the corner that would direct down to the door and just leave yourself plenty of "pigtail" to move the wire once you actually get the cams. For the driveway, I would just run wire under the "eave" for example or in an area that is going to give you the image that you desire. Hope that makes sense?


And in reference to you saying outlets? I would not really refer to them as outlets per say, maybe drops? Basically just have the contractor run Cat5e to the desired location (leaving a pigtail of course) and then that goes back to the main equipment area with the rest of the wiring. Just leave both ends wrapped up or whatever until your going to use it...no biggie.


I am saying to only run (1) cat5e wire because these days a lot of ip cams are POE so they run their power of the same data cable. Personally that is all I would do because POE is going to be here to stay. All you need to later on is basically just buy you a cheap little POE switch and you are golden. We can cross that bridge later though...for now...just pick out a "desired" location (approximate location) and have the wire ran!


I will attach a pic of my front porch cam for reference.
2012-05-05_13-15-44_833.jpg 687k .jpg file

Thanks for attaching the pic of the cam, it definitely helps.


Ok, outlets may be the wrong choice of words. I may be wrong to think that the areas where the wires would be coming out for coaxial or Cat5e or speaker 5.1 the wall will be covered and all I have to do is plug in the appropriate cable into the socket of the wall.


can you explain what does pre-wring actually mean?


I also spoke to a contractor who is recommended by our friends and he also said that we can leave the Verizon fios modem/router in the basements and can use repeaters in the house for better wifi signals



I think I can only spend so much into the pre-wires so this is what I have though of.


1 data 1 cable for family room



1 data 1 cable for master bedroom


1 cable each in all the other bedroom


1 phone in kitchen


1 data in Study


This leaves me with 1 more which I may place in the living room.


As far as the camera's since I don't know the location yet, I may deal with that later.

 

[sid369]

Also, not sure if this was mentioned specifically or not, but if you are building a two story (even if its a one story really) see if the LV contractor or the builder himself can run you one or two runs of conduit to the attic for future expansion. It will save you a lot of grief in the future should you want to add that extra network drop or coax drop in your master bedroom!



I was wondering how this works. I spoke to my builder and he said that to put a PVC pipe running the length from basement to the Attic can be doen and would cost me $220.


How exactly will this come in handy later? Can someone tell me the benefits of doing this.


Also, one last time I want to run this through you guys to make sure I have this right.


In the study if I just get cat5e done. I won't be able to get cable there right? for me to hook up TV in the study I would need an coax cable as well?


Lastly, I have been thinking of whether or not going ahead with the 5.1 pre-wiring. What if I want to expand to 7.1 in the future? how will that be accommodated?


Is this something that can be done later?

 

[jautor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369  /t/1466526/another-new-construction-questions#post_23187874


I was wondering how this works. I spoke to my builder and he said that to put a PVC pipe running the length from basement to the Attic can be doen and would cost me $220.


How exactly will this come in handy later? Can someone tell me the benefits of doing this.

Oh, so many ways....


Assuming the conduit / pipe runs from your 'wiring center' or other unfinished basement space to the attic, it allows you, at some future time, to "home run" cables to the 2nd floor, by giving you a path from any 2nd floor location, up to the attic, and down through the conduit to the wiring center. Definitely a big "future proofing" bonus and well worth the $220.

Quote:
In the study if I just get cat5e done. I won't be able to get cable there right? for me to hook up TV in the study I would need an coax cable as well?

Yes, you should absolutely run coax + cat5e (at least one) to most rooms - the study is certainly one of the places you might want a TV...

Quote:
Lastly, I have been thinking of whether or not going ahead with the 5.1 pre-wiring. What if I want to expand to 7.1 in the future? how will that be accommodated?


Is this something that can be done later?

Depends on access, but if you think you'll be using it at some point, bite the bullet and have the wiring run now. If you want to upgrade to 7.1 in the future, run the wires now. If the speaker locations are in the ceiling, you can ask them to just hide the wires and document the locations instead of leaving exposed wires or boxes. It can always be done later, but it will almost certainly be significantly more expensive and/or disruptive.


Jeff



Jeff

 

[sid369]

Hi Jeff,


thanks again for your response, is there a particular size conduit that I should ask them to install? I am thinking installing one, i guess that should be enough right?


Also, having the conduit, will I be able to run wires from my A/V in the family to the speakers upstairs zone 2, future speaker purchase.


Can the 5.1 wiring be done later, if i don't get the pre-wiring for them done.


Is it really that difficult and expensive.