Just finished up the crossovers (other than zip ties). I have very little experience soldering and it has been at least 10 years since I have soldered anything,but the boards make it super simple for anyone who is worried about doing them yourself.
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Another Ported 1299 Build for LCR
So, I was inspired by the other users who have recently built 1299's and finally got the speakers in the mail on Friday. I am still trying to decide on how big I want to make them, and would love some help designing/modeling the ports. I would like to keep the width the same to keep things simple, depth is not a huge issue, would like to keep under 18 inches or so, and height can go up to 7 feet. These are in a dedicated theater in a basement, no WAF to worry about, and I love the look of big speakers so if there is some benefit to going all the way to the ceiling, by all means suggest it.
I would like to tune them as low as possible, and from reading the other posts it seems like 35 hz is about the lowest the woofers like to be ported, so I would like to shoot for a 35hz tune.
My initial plan, mostly based on simplicity of only adding 1 piece of wood to the front baffle, would be to use to go with a finished dimension of 14.75W X 17D X 56H, just adding 16 inches to the bottom of the baffle on the front. This would put the tweeter at 40 inches off the ground, which is my seated ear height. That puts the inner volume at about 6.5 cubic feet before subtracting bracing/port/woofers. I am thinking just a single slot port at the bottom to keep things simple for the L/R, and building the center the same size but with 2 slot ports, one at each end.
I will be sitting a little close for these speakers if that makes a difference at all (about 8 feet from front of speaker). I wasn't sure if because I am so close it would be better to keep the port/ports closer to the woofers or if that really doesn't matter much.
Most of the usage will be movies/video games, with a little music thrown in.
I would like to tune them as low as possible, and from reading the other posts it seems like 35 hz is about the lowest the woofers like to be ported, so I would like to shoot for a 35hz tune.
My initial plan, mostly based on simplicity of only adding 1 piece of wood to the front baffle, would be to use to go with a finished dimension of 14.75W X 17D X 56H, just adding 16 inches to the bottom of the baffle on the front. This would put the tweeter at 40 inches off the ground, which is my seated ear height. That puts the inner volume at about 6.5 cubic feet before subtracting bracing/port/woofers. I am thinking just a single slot port at the bottom to keep things simple for the L/R, and building the center the same size but with 2 slot ports, one at each end.
I will be sitting a little close for these speakers if that makes a difference at all (about 8 feet from front of speaker). I wasn't sure if because I am so close it would be better to keep the port/ports closer to the woofers or if that really doesn't matter much.
Most of the usage will be movies/video games, with a little music thrown in.
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Congrats and good luck with your new build! I'd definitely recommend modeling things before building. I may be way off base here, but it seemed to me from modeling and from the delta 12b specs that tuning super low wasn't a great option, at least when the wattage is turned up. Maybe a more seasoned member can chime in and correct me.
Thanks! I don't think I will have a chance to start cutting wood for a couple weeks now, but I am planning on attempting to model in WinISD tonight. I assume that can be used to to model just the woofers of the 1299? @blister64 has his tuned to 35 hz, and @Jk7.2 tuned to 30 hz. I have considered of just copying JK7.2's build, but I have the room to build them taller and deeper if there is benefit to that I just want to get the best midbass I can out of them.Congrats and good luck with your new build! I'd definitely recommend modeling things before building. I may be way off base here, but it seemed to me from modeling and from the delta 12b specs that tuning super low wasn't a great option, at least when the wattage is turned up. Maybe a more seasoned member can chime in and correct me.
The LR will be sitting right next to a full marty, and I assume that regardless of how deep they are they should be pulled away from the wall to be flush with the front of the subs, rather than having them pushed back against the wall reflecting off the sides of the subs?
All that being said, I rarely listen without subs so maybe porting higher would be better, I'm still going back and forth.
I would ask blister64 and JK7.2 for some advice and probably copy one of their builds.You won't see any benefit going larger than their designs.I would choose either 30Hz or 35Hz instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.Thanks! I don't think I will have a chance to start cutting wood for a couple weeks now, but I am planning on attempting to model in WinISD tonight. I assume that can be used to to model just the woofers of the 1299? @blister64 has his tuned to 35 hz, and @Jk7.2 tuned to 30 hz. I have considered of just copying JK7.2's build, but I have the room to build them taller and deeper if there is benefit to that I just want to get the best midbass I can out of them.
The LR will be sitting right next to a full marty, and I assume that regardless of how deep they are they should be pulled away from the wall to be flush with the front of the subs, rather than having them pushed back against the wall reflecting off the sides of the subs?
All that being said, I rarely listen without subs so maybe porting higher would be better, I'm still going back and forth.
Sound like a great project! Keeps us posted! Best of luck.
I posted some graphs recently on my build thread if you want to check them out:Thanks! I don't think I will have a chance to start cutting wood for a couple weeks now, but I am planning on attempting to model in WinISD tonight. I assume that can be used to to model just the woofers of the 1299? @blister64 has his tuned to 35 hz, and @Jk7.2 tuned to 30 hz. I have considered of just copying JK7.2's build, but I have the room to build them taller and deeper if there is benefit to that I just want to get the best midbass I can out of them.
The LR will be sitting right next to a full marty, and I assume that regardless of how deep they are they should be pulled away from the wall to be flush with the front of the subs, rather than having them pushed back against the wall reflecting off the sides of the subs?
All that being said, I rarely listen without subs so maybe porting higher would be better, I'm still going back and forth.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3095614-cmax-1299-build.html#post58680158
I'll be curious to see what your modeling finds!
I asked Erich in an email about the excursion and tuning. He informed me that these actually have more useable excursion than just 2.7mm and that for a 4.5 cuft box he'd recommend 40-45 Hz tuning if used with powerful subs for some good midbass output. Being a noob, I didn't realize that pro audio woofers were rated so conservatively. Just FYI.
2.7mm is a conservative rating but with their efficiency you likely won't go much over that anyway and they will still be playing very loud.
I did a bit of modeling, using 6.2 cubic feet (6.47 total inner space, in hindsight should probably subtract more for bracing/driver displacement)
The three models are 30 hz (black), 35 hz (red), 40 hz (green). All ports are same width as box, 30 hz is 2"Hx8.5"D, 35 hz is 3"Hx8.84"D, 40 hz is 3"Hx5.55"D.
This is at 50 watts power, which seemed reasonably close for power the woofers could get out of Denon x4400h. I think I am leaning towards the 35hz tune at this point, with the plan of crossing to sub at 40 hz with the receiver. So that would be 14.75W X 17D X 56H outer dimensions with a 3"Hx8.84"Dx13.25W port
This is all just with the stock Delta 12 that WinISD has in the driver database, no clue how accurate this is or how much these might be changed by the crossover.
The three models are 30 hz (black), 35 hz (red), 40 hz (green). All ports are same width as box, 30 hz is 2"Hx8.5"D, 35 hz is 3"Hx8.84"D, 40 hz is 3"Hx5.55"D.
This is at 50 watts power, which seemed reasonably close for power the woofers could get out of Denon x4400h. I think I am leaning towards the 35hz tune at this point, with the plan of crossing to sub at 40 hz with the receiver. So that would be 14.75W X 17D X 56H outer dimensions with a 3"Hx8.84"Dx13.25W port
This is all just with the stock Delta 12 that WinISD has in the driver database, no clue how accurate this is or how much these might be changed by the crossover.
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If you read my thread, you know I did the 35 Hz tune as well. I think you'll be extremely happy with whatever tune you decide to go with to be honest. Those drivers will really like that extra airspace too. I've been extremely happy with mine! Looking forward to the build process.
I actually need to spend a day taking measurements now that I have some panels up in my room and really get them tuned in. I'll post some REW graphs once that's done, may be a few weeks, but I'll get around to it.
I actually need to spend a day taking measurements now that I have some panels up in my room and really get them tuned in. I'll post some REW graphs once that's done, may be a few weeks, but I'll get around to it.
Thanks for taking the time to make the video @eng-399. It is much appreciated!
Just to clear up a few things, I am planning on powering them with a Denon x4400h (Rated 125 watts each when running 2 channel, assuming Denon doesn't fudge their numbers too much, and also not sure how much of that power goes to the tweeter and mids, I assumed 100 watts or so is reasonable). I don't have any plans to give them more power any time soon (nothing wrong with planning for the possible future though). I am planning on running them with a crossover in the receiver, 40 or 60 hz likely.
Also, I was planning on just doing a single port on both the L and R, but dual ports on the center. So I was proposing a single 3"Hx8.84"Dx13.25W port on the LR and two half width (3"Hx8.84"Dx6.625W) ports on the center. If a single port is better, I could just change the dimensions on the center and make the face wider so I could put a single port centered under the baffle.
I am not sure how how the specs from eminence compare to the specs that are in WinISD, I did notice that one in the WinISD database it is just named the Delta 12, not 12B, not sure if that is actually a different model or not. I will have some time when I get home tonight to use the specs from eminence directly and mess around with it some more myself to see what I can come up with. Your video made me a bit more confident in what I need to make sure to check when modeling.
Just to clear up a few things, I am planning on powering them with a Denon x4400h (Rated 125 watts each when running 2 channel, assuming Denon doesn't fudge their numbers too much, and also not sure how much of that power goes to the tweeter and mids, I assumed 100 watts or so is reasonable). I don't have any plans to give them more power any time soon (nothing wrong with planning for the possible future though). I am planning on running them with a crossover in the receiver, 40 or 60 hz likely.
Also, I was planning on just doing a single port on both the L and R, but dual ports on the center. So I was proposing a single 3"Hx8.84"Dx13.25W port on the LR and two half width (3"Hx8.84"Dx6.625W) ports on the center. If a single port is better, I could just change the dimensions on the center and make the face wider so I could put a single port centered under the baffle.
I am not sure how how the specs from eminence compare to the specs that are in WinISD, I did notice that one in the WinISD database it is just named the Delta 12, not 12B, not sure if that is actually a different model or not. I will have some time when I get home tonight to use the specs from eminence directly and mess around with it some more myself to see what I can come up with. Your video made me a bit more confident in what I need to make sure to check when modeling.
After spending some more time modeling, I think I have decided to stick with my original design for L/R, and go with dual round ports for the center.
So, I modeled using 6.2 cubic feet internal, 150 watts power (again going to be powered by a Denon x4400h, which is only rated at 125 watts). All 3 will be the same dimensions (14.75W X 17D X 56H), and tuned to 35 hz, but using a single 3"Hx13.25"Wx8.84"D slot port on the L/R, and dual 4 5/16" round ports 7.17 inches long on the center channel (to keep it symmetrical)
Ports for center channel:
https://www.parts-express.com/parts...hvvojZP5xBtRG9dqBdwiqkXyb3M4U548aAoEnEALw_wcB
I am planning on crossing them over at 40 hz in the receiver, but I could not find a good answer on how to model that, so I hoped that it would be close to the default in WinISD, which is a second order Butterworth, Q=.707, and I set that to 40hz. With that filter in place, the speakers peak out at about 4.7mm xmax (at both 25 hz and at 70hz). Port velocity peaks at just over 9m/s on the center channel, and under 7m/s on the L/R at about 30hz. 1st port resonance is at 944hz and and 765hz for center and L/R respectively.
Without the filter in place, the port velocity gets out of hand (16m/s and climbing fast) at about 33 hz for the center, and xmax goes over 6mm at 29hz, but I never plan on running them full range, so this seems acceptable.
If anyone has more information about modeling the receiver high pass filter, or anything else you see wrong with the design let me know. I am hoping to get started building sometime this week.
So, I modeled using 6.2 cubic feet internal, 150 watts power (again going to be powered by a Denon x4400h, which is only rated at 125 watts). All 3 will be the same dimensions (14.75W X 17D X 56H), and tuned to 35 hz, but using a single 3"Hx13.25"Wx8.84"D slot port on the L/R, and dual 4 5/16" round ports 7.17 inches long on the center channel (to keep it symmetrical)
Ports for center channel:
https://www.parts-express.com/parts...hvvojZP5xBtRG9dqBdwiqkXyb3M4U548aAoEnEALw_wcB
I am planning on crossing them over at 40 hz in the receiver, but I could not find a good answer on how to model that, so I hoped that it would be close to the default in WinISD, which is a second order Butterworth, Q=.707, and I set that to 40hz. With that filter in place, the speakers peak out at about 4.7mm xmax (at both 25 hz and at 70hz). Port velocity peaks at just over 9m/s on the center channel, and under 7m/s on the L/R at about 30hz. 1st port resonance is at 944hz and and 765hz for center and L/R respectively.
Without the filter in place, the port velocity gets out of hand (16m/s and climbing fast) at about 33 hz for the center, and xmax goes over 6mm at 29hz, but I never plan on running them full range, so this seems acceptable.
If anyone has more information about modeling the receiver high pass filter, or anything else you see wrong with the design let me know. I am hoping to get started building sometime this week.
Just finished getting the speakers finished up today. Haven't had a chance to get any measurements done or much listening other than a quick demo to make sure everything is working, but love them so far. Included a pic of the klipsch speakers they are replacing.
Also need to build/find some bigger wedges to angle the center channel up. The tiny little bookshelf wedges I had under the old center arent gonna cut it lol.
One random note, I am a little sad to see that Duratex is not as dark as the bedliner I got from Lowes that I painted the subs with (Rhinoliner I think?). Duratex did seem to go on more uniform, but I would have rather had the darker color in hindsight. Live and learn.
Also need to build/find some bigger wedges to angle the center channel up. The tiny little bookshelf wedges I had under the old center arent gonna cut it lol.
One random note, I am a little sad to see that Duratex is not as dark as the bedliner I got from Lowes that I painted the subs with (Rhinoliner I think?). Duratex did seem to go on more uniform, but I would have rather had the darker color in hindsight. Live and learn.
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How are you liking the voice reproduction in movies?
Clarity vs harshness w/ the highs??
I have Arx/Chane and the 5chs flat eq. I have heard other speakers and I'm hesitant to move to a different/larger format at the expense of SQ. They don't play extremely loud due to their size but a good recording can be taken to nearly max on my AVR and it still sounds great. A great recording sounds awesome but a bad recording, the Arx/Chanes will reproduce the audio as it was recorded. I hear audio errors in certain songs cd's, missed notes, etc on occasion.
Clarity vs harshness w/ the highs??
I have Arx/Chane and the 5chs flat eq. I have heard other speakers and I'm hesitant to move to a different/larger format at the expense of SQ. They don't play extremely loud due to their size but a good recording can be taken to nearly max on my AVR and it still sounds great. A great recording sounds awesome but a bad recording, the Arx/Chanes will reproduce the audio as it was recorded. I hear audio errors in certain songs cd's, missed notes, etc on occasion.
Those look fantastic! Nice work!Just finished getting the speakers finished up today. Haven't had a chance to get any measurements done or much listening other than a quick demo to make sure everything is working, but love them so far. Included a pic of the klipsch speakers they are replacing.
Also need to build/find some bigger wedges to angle the center channel up. The tiny little bookshelf wedges I had under the old center arent gonna cut it lol.
One random note, I am a little sad to see that Duratex is not as dark as the bedliner I got from Lowes that I painted the subs with (Rhinoliner I think?). Duratex did seem to go on more uniform, but I would have rather had the darker color in hindsight. Live and learn.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
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