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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 http://www.dvdplusrw.org/pc/dvdvr_software/index.html



I wish people would stop recommending for people to buy a Pioneer DVD-R.


Apart from a small price difference, DVD-R has no advatages. The compatibility thing is complete BS.


DVD+R has so many more technical features you'd be mad not to go for that format.


P.S. I appreciate the people that have bought DVD-R's have a system that works for them. Cool. I'm talking about new purchasers being recommended a system with fewer features. Sorry to put any noses out joint.
 

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I just bought 10 DVD-R's for $9.95 (after rebate) at Office Max.
 

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I'm a little confused. You're saying that DVD-R is bad then you say it has more technical features.
Quote:
DVD+R has so many more technical features you'd be mad not to go for that format.
Did you mean to say DVD-RW?
 

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I just checked www.pricewatch.com and it looks like DVD-R's are down to about $.60 each in packs of 50 or more.


- Tom
 

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All I see on that link is a couple of programs that work with DVD+RW. Big whoop. DVD-R works as good as if not better than DVD+R, and the media is cheaper.


Why on earth wouldn't you recommend DVD-R drives? Pioneer makes great drives, of course people will recommend them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
JBurton, How does


quote:

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DVD+R has so many more technical features you'd be mad not to go for that format.

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get you confused. Read it again please.


Salmoneous, thats just one link. Check the rest of the comparisons on www.dvdplusrw.org

http://www.dvdplusrw.org/pc/pccomparison.html
http://www.dvdplusrw.org/video/comparison.html


I'm not criticising recommending pioneer's quality hardware, I'm criticising recommending a format with less features and performance.


Look, as I said, if you already have a drive that works and does everything you need, thats fine. I'm saying that DVD+R DOES have more features. Thats FACT. I which case thats the system that should be recommended to NEW users.


Again, everyone here is quoting price as there argument and I don't think it's a good one. Shop around to find the cheapest DVD+R's and see how big the difference is.



I'm always using this site for interesting debate on many subjects, I think this one is far more black and white. A chain reaction of recommendations occurs with readers in this forum, and if it's starts with the wrong one, then it's very hard to stop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Duel format drives don't really end the debate, all they do is move the conflict to the media people buy. If no one buy's DVD+R discs, they will stop producing them and then the drives will probably revert back to the single winning format.


Betamax did have more features and it's a shame it dissapeared.

They price between the two is just not important enough.


My point in this whole discussion is when people ask what should system to get.....people turn around and say get a DVD-R it's great!


I've had and used both at my work and I'm saying DVD-R is great, DVD+R is better. FACT. Stop telling other people to buy an inferior product. IF they want to buy based on price they will.


Recommendations should be on a performance level, unless price is a huge difference - which it isn't in this case.
 

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I'm sorry. Thanks for the clarification.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by slikvik

Duel format drives don't really end the debate, all they do is move the conflict to the media people buy.
"Duel format" as in two formats that are dueling it out. I like that.


So I guess to really end the debate we would need dual format media as well, if that's even possible. Or maybe not, because you would still need to choose which format to use when you burn to it.
 

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Well,


I'll have to add my support for the DVD+r format. I have a HP External dvd burner and every single dvd I've made so far has worked in both my old standalone player (and friend's as well), as well as my htpc.


I have a friend who has a dvd-r burner and he has found that not all of his burned dvds will work in a stand alone player.


Compatibility with dvd players, old and new, I find to be a big bonus with the dvd+r format. Certainly they are pricy right now, but they seem much better suited to video recording.


Just my two cents. :D
 

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I've been using dvd-r since June of last year and as far as compatibility, I've only found one STB that did not play a disc I'd had burned and it was a Toshiba that was about 4 years old. I've made various movies of some of my friend's weddings, etc. and I have distributed my work to the various families and I have yet to hear of a disc that doesn't work. Maybe I am lucky :) If the +r works for someone then I say go for it, if the -r works use it. I can't complain about the media prices now - I get ritekg03 and burn them at 2x on my pioneer a03 and they cost about $0.85 each!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by slikvik
http://www.dvdplusrw.org/pc/dvdvr_software/index.html



I wish people would stop recommending for people to buy a Pioneer DVD-R.


Apart from a small price difference, DVD-R has no advatages. The compatibility thing is complete BS.


DVD+R has so many more technical features you'd be mad not to go for that format.


P.S. I appreciate the people that have bought DVD-R's have a system that works for them. Cool. I'm talking about new purchasers being recommended a system with fewer features. Sorry to put any noses out joint.


Of course they're going to say all that, the site is called DVD plus R isn't it?:rolleyes:


The fact remains that however many more technical features the 'plus' format has, it's still not compatible with as many players as the 'minus' format is and in the end that's what matters.


Now to go spout some propeganda from www.dvdminusrw.org
 

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Well, seems to me that each has it's own merits, it just up to the purchaser to decide what's best for him or her.


Cheers folks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
As you can see, everyone has had there own experiences with compatibilty being OK with both formats. Thats what I mean by the issue being BS. There's about 10% difference and thats only with the RW's. A small fraction of DVD players available on todays market were tested. I had no problems with either.


It's not really an issue so don't use it as such. It's features and performance that count, and regardless of what website its from, DVD+R is the better performer.


Find some counter arguements on www.dvdminusrw.org and I'll shut up :)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by slikvik



Salmoneous, thats just one link. Check the rest of the comparisons on www.dvdplusrw.org
OK, I've gone back and looked at other things on that site and I still don't see anthing important. You've bascially said in this thread that DVD+R is so vastly superious to DVD-R than no one should consider DVD-R. Realy?


I'm curious, if someone asked you want is the single most important reason they should get DVD+R, what would you tell them. Not "it's technically superior" but "you can do XXXX with DVD+R and you can't do that with DVD-R". Better make it something good - certainlly better than what I was on the +R propaganda sight. Cause what *I* saw there didn't seem more important that cheaper media to the vast majority.
 

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I have seen a lot of price listings for cheap DVD-R discs, yet every time I check a local or online ad, they are about the same price for +Rs or -Rs. One big difference I see, is that so far all +R and +RW discs seem to be 'name brands', and that is a good sign to me. Considering how much time we put into video capture setup and editing, or ripping and converting, I don't see why people would then gamble on 'brand-X' blank discs. They were not worth the trouble in the CD formats, and I think that would be even more true with DVDs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well personally, I'll be gutted if DVD-R win's and I lose all these features. Salmoneous doesn't think there worth an extra 50p on a disc, but do!!



DVD+RW supports lossless linking/sector replacement across the entire disc


Only DVD+RW offers very accurate lossless linking within the basic specification of the system. This means that it can replace individual sectors on the disc at any given location. This results in the writing of sectors on the disc that remain fully compatible with existing DVD-ROM drives (and even the more critical DVD-Video players in case you are creating a DVD-Video disc). This is DVD+RW's most powerfull feature, which allows for all kinds of behaviour that's not possible with other recordable DVD systems. For example, you can replace the menu of a disc within seconds, without the need of rewriting the entire disc. On top of this, lossless linking allows for high performance drag-'n-drop applications like packet writing or Mount Rainier support (see below). DVD-RW does not offer this degree of lossless linking capability. It might optionally support some form of buffer underrun protection, but this is something different from "lossless linking", as it does not allow the user to replace sectors on a written disc.



DVD+RW offers DVD+VR support


DVD+RW drives offer DVD+VR (DVD+RW Video Recording) support. Contrary to the VR format that can be found on DVD-RW video recorders, the DVD+VR is fully compatible with existing DVD-Video players, without sacrificing all the neat editing functionality. Using a DVD+VR capable authoring tool, you could for example change the background of the menu, edit out commercials or replace a part of a video recording, all within a matter of seconds and without the need of rewriting the entire disc. Since DVD-RW cannot change the contents of a disc already written, you need to rewrite the entire disc when you made a change to it.



DVD+RW supports defect management


DVD-RW does not support any form of defect management within the basic system, which could lead to reading errors in a DVD-ROM drive or even hangups of a DVD-Video player when your disc contains a minor error. DVD+RW incorporates a defect management system by default which was designed to be 100% invisible to existing drives and players, so that the discs can be read as if they were normal DVD-ROM or DVD-Video discs.



DVD+RW supports addressing during recording


DVD-RW does not allow address information (which is stored in land pre-pits on a DVD-RW disc) to be read during the recording process, hence it's impossible to locate at what position of the disc the writing process is taking place. When the writing process is being interrupted due to a shock of the drive, it's nearly impossible to return to the previous writing location. DVD+RW allows the address information (stored in the disc's wobble signal) to be read during recording, so that in case of a writing problem, the writing can be continued at the previous location. This feature also allows for the lossless linking principle as explained above: since a DVD+RW drive knows when to stop recording, it can accurately replace parts of a disc at sector level.



DVD+RW has a 2.4 times higher basic writing speed


The basic writing speed of DVD+R and DVD+RW is 2.4x speed. This means that any DVD+R/+RW drive will write all DVD+R and DVD+RW media at least at 2.4x speed. Most newer models will write both disc formats at 4x speed on 4x speed media, otherwise they will write at 2.4x speed.

For DVD-RW, the basic writing speed is 1x. Newer generations will write 2x certified media at 2x speed, otherwise they will write at 1x speed. Also for DVD-R, the basic writing speed is 1x. Although all DVD-R/-RW drives are capable of writing DVD-R media at 2x speed, you need certified media to do so, otherwise a DVD-R disc will be written at 1x speed. Newer drives offer 4x writing speed for 4x certified media, but these drives will write 2x certified media at 1x speed.



DVD+RW and DVD+R media only come in one type


DVD+RW and DVD+R discs only come in one type (with the sole exception that for 4x speed writing, you need 4x speed media). There's no difference in discs for PC or video recording usage, discs for professional authoring or consumer usage, discs with and without several forms of copy protection, or discs with a smaller capacity than the standard 4.7 GB.

With DVD-R, you have "authoring" and "general" drives, each with their own writing media (which can not be used in drives of the other type) and the discs come in different capacities (3.95 or 4.7 GB). DVD-RW discs come with and without CPRM copy protection (for usage on DVD-RW video recorders), and in different versions (1.0 and 1.1), with the 1.0 discs not allowing you to make DVD-compatible recordings on a DVD-RW video recorder.



DVD+RW offers quick background formatting


When you want to use your rewrtitable DVD discs, the discs needs to be formatted first. With DVD+RW, this format procedure is performed in the background, invisible to the user, and nearly without consuming any time. The drive starts formatting a small portion of disc first (lead-in area and part of the data area, required to start writing). It then resumes for the remaining portion automatically in the background when there is no writing or reading operation (Background Formatting). This feature enables to start initial writing immediately. Background formatting shall be suspended should additional reading/writing be required. Discs that are only partially formatted can be ejected from the drive, maintaining the compatibility with existing DVD-ROM drives, and formatting automatically continues when you re-insert the disc. Older DVD-RW drives required you to format a full disc at 1x speed, so you had to wait for over one hour before you can start recording to the disc. With some newer -RW drives you can use some form of a software application to perform a quick format which has to be initiated by the user. It cannot be interrupted, so you have to wait for it to complete before you can start writing to the disc.



Optional: DVD+RW system offers Mount Rainier (EasyWrite) support


DVD+RW is the only recordable DVD system that may optionally offer drives with Mount Rainier-based drag-'n-drop support, also known as EasyWrite. The Mount Rainier specification was set up by Microsoft, Compaq/HP, Philips and Sony, and was originally designed for new CD-RW drives. For DVD+RW, the group created the DVD+MRW specification. The specification allows for various advantages over normal packet-writing software, such as full random access, Defect Management handled by the drive (or by a dedicated Read-Only device driver), Physical formatting performed in background by the drive (without interaction with the host computer), the disc will be available for use immediately after insertion and ejecting the disc before the Background Formatting process is completed is possible. As Mt. Rainier support will be a standard feature of upcoming Microsoft Windows releases, you won't need any software application to use your DVD+RW discs as big removable floppy disks. Drives with DVD+MRW support are currently appearing on the market and when they become available, you may use the same DVD+RW discs you already use with your current DVD+RW drive. DVD-RW will never offer Mt. Rainier (EasyWrite) support, as it is not part of its specification.



Optional: DVD+RW system supports both CAV and CLV writing


Besides CLV operation, DVD+RW drives may optionally also support recording in CAV mode. CLV (Constant Linear Velocity) is usually used in audio or video recorders (such as CD-Audio recorders or DVD-Video recorders). Using CLV, the drive's spinning speed is decreased from the beginning to the end of the disc. CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) allows the disc to spin at a constant rate, enabling faster access times. To maintain compatibility and recording space on the disc, the laser in a DVD+RW drive just burns "faster" (or actually at a larger power) at the beginning of a disc, so that all pits are equally as big and the discs are equally as compatible with current DVD players and drives as a disc recorded in CLV mode. CAV recording might be important in applications where writing speed and access times are critial. No current DVD+RW drives support CAV, but when they become available, they will use the same DVD+RW media that you already use with your current DVD+RW drive. DVD-RW will never offer CAV recording, as it is not part of its specification.
 
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