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Another subwoofer help thread...

2173 Views 35 Replies 10 Participants Last post by KitShickers, Jun 7, 2021

KitShickers

Discussion Starter · May 31, 2021

Hello Forum.
New guy here. I have a background in audio, but my experience with home theater is limited to what I've owned in the past, which was mediocre at best. Im moving into a new house next month and the basement has space for a dedicated home theater. I was hoping to get some advice choosing some subwoofers for the space. After lurking for the past few days, I'm confident I came to the right place! A little about the room:
The space is 32x19'x8' or about 4800ft3. Three walls are concrete block with dirt directly behind them. One of the long walls is drywall with a doorway leading to the rest of the basement, which can be closed. There is also a stairway leading to the main level with a door at the top that can be closed. So, other than the fireplace in the room, the space is fairly sealed. I am considering a fireplace insert which may help seal that up some as well (Ill be doing that mainly for heat generation in the winter).
I am planning a 5.2.4 setup with the front speakers being Parts Express kit speakers with 7" Usher drivers and silk domes, and the two rears being Parts Express dual 4" transmission line towers. None of this is particularly great, but they will get the job done for now. Subwoofers come first and upgrades to the mains come later. I am planning on getting a Denon AVR-X3700 (Unless there are better suggestions) for decoding/switching and I have several QSC RMX 1450 power amps to power the main 5 channels.
So, now for subwoofers. The space will be used for movies 70% Music 20% and games 10%. So emphasis is on movies, but I don't want a muddy mess for music either. I really want to run a dual sub setup, and the main contenders right now are 2 x Rythmik F18, 2 xRythmik FV18 or 2 x PSA S2112. The goal is to pressurize the room as much as possible, as evenly as possible, without sacrificing so much punch that music falls flat. I really want to keep this under $3500 but I can be pushed a little higher for the FV18s or S2112s if they are the way to go. Of course, other suggestions are also welcome.
If I understand correctly, given I will have three concrete walls surrounding the space, sealed subs might do pretty well and give better low end extension due to room gain. Is it enough to trump the low port tuning of the the FV18s? Any explanation or advice on this subject and my room would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

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1 - 20 of 36 Posts

Deaf-Forever

· #2 · May 31, 2021

Stay ported. TV2112's would be a good start. FV18's minimum.

You wont get much room gain in 4800 cubes is my understanding. If you go sealed, double what you're thinking to start so you get close to what you want. So quad S2112's might get you there. Quad S21IPALS woiuld be a safer bet most likley. You can see that sealed wont be economically feasible, unless you lower your expectations, a lot.

Reactions: 1

KitShickers

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 31, 2021

Deaf-Forever said:
Stay ported. TV2112's would be a good start. FV18's minimum.

You wont get much room gain in 4800 cubes is my understanding. If you go sealed, double what you're thinking to start so you get close to what you want. So quad S2112's might get you there. Quad S21IPALS woiuld be a safer bet most likley. You can see that sealed wont be economically feasible, unless you lower your expectations, a lot.

Thanks for the response. And thanks for destroying my budget. lol. How about 4x hsu vtf-15h mk2? Probably wont go as low but more in line with my budget.

jamiebosco

· #4 · May 31, 2021

Go the 2 x FV18s

edit I'd also at least consider 2 x Monolith M-215's while still on special

Monolith by Monoprice M-215 Dual 15in THX Certified Ultra 2000-Watt Powered Subwoofer - Monoprice.com

Add a Tower of Bass to your home theater system! This Monolith™ THX® Certified Ultra Subwoofer sets the standard for bass output, low distortion, and affordability. With chest thumping bass

www.monoprice.com

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Sharpshooter91

· #5 · May 31, 2021

Not sure how you define “pushing” your budget but dual PSA TV1812s is $3950.

Reactions: 1

KitShickers

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 31, 2021

jamiebosco said:
Go the 2 x FV18s

edit I'd also at least consider 2 x Monolith M-215's while still on special

Monolith by Monoprice M-215 Dual 15in THX Certified Ultra 2000-Watt Powered Subwoofer - Monoprice.com

Add a Tower of Bass to your home theater system! This Monolith™ THX® Certified Ultra Subwoofer sets the standard for bass output, low distortion, and affordability. With chest thumping bass

www.monoprice.com

You like both of those over 4 x HSU?

KitShickers

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 31, 2021

Sharpshooter91 said:
Not sure how you define “pushing” your budget but dual PSA TV1812s is $3950.

How would those stack up against two FV18s?

jamiebosco

· #8 · May 31, 2021

KitShickers said:
You like both of those over 4 x HSU?

All good choices IMHO
Are you willing to buy the gear (mic,REW,miniDSP 2x4HD) needed to properly set up any of these options properly?
4 x subs spaced around the room will likely need measurements + a miniDSP to properly set up

Reactions: 1

KitShickers

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 31, 2021

jamiebosco said:
All good choices IMHO
Are you willing to buy the gear (mic,REW,miniDSP 2x4HD) needed to properly set up any of these options properly?
4 x subs spaced around the room will likely need measurements + a miniDSP to properly set up

Yeah i just considered the set up. Im assuming the only way Audessy EQ can handle 4 subs is if they are tight packed into two clusters. I have considered a Dirac minidsp, but that gets cost prohibitive since you still need a decoder/switcher. Two FV18s sounds like it might be the best/cheapest option. The monoprice are intriguing, but I really like the idea of better customer service from an ID dealer.

Deaf-Forever

· #10 · May 31, 2021

jamiebosco said:
All good choices IMHO
Are you willing to buy the gear (mic,REW,miniDSP 2x4HD) needed to properly set up any of these options properly?
4 x subs spaced around the room will likely need measurements + a miniDSP to properly set up

^^^This^^^

Are you willing to do the leg work. Add another 100+ in UMIK-1, mic stand, REW and teh hours to set them up correctly? If so then sure. The FV's and TV's will play lower however.

Deaf-Forever

· #11 · May 31, 2021

KitShickers said:
Yeah i just considered the set up. Im assuming the only way Audessy EQ can handle 4 subs is if they are tight packed into two clusters. I have considered a Dirac minidsp, but that gets cost prohibitive since you still need a decoder/switcher. Two FV18s sounds like it might be the best/cheapest option. The monoprice are intriguing, but I really like the idea of better customer service from an ID dealer.

The Rythmik and PSA options will be light years ahead oion teh customer service department. The m215 Mono's are a hell of a deal, as long as the wheels dont fall off. FV/TV 18's are the creme. TV21's might give you a bit more output.

Reactions: 1

d-rail34

· #12 · May 31, 2021

KitShickers said:
How would those stack up against two FV18s?

The FV18 will have the advantage down low, and the TV will have an advantage up top. Hard to say exactly how much because one has data and the other does not.

I actually just upgraded to the FV18PC (paper cone), and it's an absolute monster. I couldn't be happier with it.

And before the idiots come out and start making fanboy comments, I'm gonna go ahead and shut that **** down right now. It's sad that I even have to be concerned with this pettiness, but unfortunately, this dumb **** happens far too often on here...

Reactions: 1

KitShickers

Discussion Starter · #13 · May 31, 2021

d-rail34 said:
The FV18 will have the advantage down low, and the TV will have an advantage up top. Hard to say exactly how much because one has data and the other does not.

I actually just upgraded to the FV18PC (paper cone), and it's an absolute monster. I couldn't be happier with it.

And before the idiots come out and start making fanboy comments, I'm gonna go ahead and shut that ** down right now. It's sad that I even have to be concerned with this pettiness, but unfortunately, this dumb ** happens far too often on here...

What advantage does the paper cone have? More output at the expense of more distortion?

d-rail34

· #14 · May 31, 2021

KitShickers said:
What advantage does the paper cone have? More output at the expense of more distortion?

A lighter cone with a slight increase in distortion, but nothing that we will notice. As for output advantages, it has about a 3dB increase from 50Hz and up, so that is a nice perk and why I went this direction. It's said to have a warmer sound than the aluminum cone as well.

Deaf-Forever

· #15 · May 31, 2021

You wont hear the distortion in any of them. Pick what you like and pull the trigger. If you want the cleanest sounding sub then yes, the aluminum is the pick.

Reactions: 1

KitShickers

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 31, 2021

jamiebosco said:
All good choices IMHO
Are you willing to buy the gear (mic,REW,miniDSP 2x4HD) needed to properly set up any of these options properly?
4 x subs spaced around the room will likely need measurements + a miniDSP to properly set up

Am I naive to think I can get good results with the Audessey bass management in the Denon? If so, maybe ill take the time and go the mini dsp route.

Deaf-Forever

· #17 · May 31, 2021

No. not at all. You may and I would recommend you try it first. Ive been lucky so far. The rec for the MiniDSP was based on going to 4 subs. At that point you really should have it.

Will I go Mini?? Yes, but for different reasons (BEQ). Any improvements past that application will just be like sprinkles on my desert!.

jamiebosco

· #18 · Jun 1, 2021

2

KitShickers said:
Am I naive to think I can get good results with the Audessey bass management in the Denon? If so, maybe ill take the time and go the mini dsp route.

I agree with Deaf, you definitely can good get good results with Audyssey alone. Though a Umik-1 and REW is still a necessity in my opinion.In a rectangular sealed room,with front subs on 1 preout and the rear subs on the 2nd preout, Audyssey probably would get it right,though you'd want to verify this with REW

I had a miniDSP 2x4HD set up with my 3 subs,but ended up taking it out of the chain and selling it,as it was causing some slight hum in my subs at the time. I found (using REW) that with some decent placement,and using the delay dials on my subs plate amps,I was able to get them to play nice before running Audyssey and get decent results. Using the delay dial was more time-consuming than the 2x4HD, but easier/less technical

Subs+Center, 10Hz-200Hz, no smoothing,after Audyssey

Subs + Center, 20Hz-20kHz,1/6 Oct smoothing

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ctsv510

· #19 · Jun 1, 2021

I have a very similar space to you, but a little more square and slightly larger. I started with two sealed SVS SB16 subs and got decent room gain but I found that didn’t make up for the lack of tactile response in the low frequencies. I moved to ported PB16s and it made all the difference. I since moved on to ported PSA subs and they’re just better in every way.

That being said, I’m staring at an FV15HP from Rythmik that I just picked up for my home office and it’s very impressive. So I think two FV18s or two TV1812s would cover you and make you happy. Your worst case is adding a third down the road but you may not find it to be necessary. Audyssey should be able to handle the two of them and if you want a house curve you can use the MultEQ app. miniDSP would be for more customization and for using BEQ (which you really should try with capable subs like FV18s).

tvuong

· #20 · Jun 1, 2021

d-rail34 said:
The FV18 will have the advantage down low, and the TV will have an advantage up top. Hard to say exactly how much because one has data and the other does not.

I actually just upgraded to the FV18PC (paper cone), and it's an absolute monster. I couldn't be happier with it.

And before the idiots come out and start making fanboy comments, I'm gonna go ahead and shut that ** down right now. It's sad that I even have to be concerned with this pettiness, but unfortunately, this dumb ** happens far too often on here...

LOL

. Beside what's mentioned, the FV18 has almost double the port area than the TV18 making it a lot less prone to port chuffing, and I am positive that the TV18 DOES NOT have advantage up top, especially when comparing to the FV18PC.

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