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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Another newbie looking for a recommendation. I too have read for several days and am between a couple of different screen paints and applications, so let's get to it.


Projector = Epson 6100, just got it about 2 weeks ago

ceiling mounted

Throw distance = about 14'

Viewing distance = about 13'

Screen size = about 120" diagonal

Current screen is standard wall painted flat white.

Non-dedicated theater/living room. side walls are painted light blue, front and rear walls are white. Room is about 12' wide near the back where projector/seating is.

Ceiling is vaulted, and is popcorn painted white and upon close inspection has little sparklys

Top of screen will be about 1' below ceiling at ceiling's lowest point and about 5' below ceiling at ceiling's highest point.

Very open living room with 3 good size windows on one side (to the right of screen), and then light coming from kitchen/other side of house windows from the other side. Lighting is semi-controlled through blinds, but doesn't get too dark during the day.

Dark brown curtains to hang on sides of screen, should cut down on bleed through, and dark brown valance across the top of screen to also help cut down reflections


Watch movies/tv/sports/computer monitor, so it's a multi-use display, pretty much all times of the day, but appreciate watching the movies most at nite.


After days of reading, I'm probably between using Behr Silver Screen rolled on or Silver Fire sprayed on.


I like the out of the can ease, and rolled on familiarity of the Silver Screen, as long as it handles my ambient light well and I am nervous about a possible blue color shift with it... Is that a concern, so many opinions, which can be good and bad. Reading the SS posts, sounded like it started off strong with a lot of acceptance, and then a lot of people on the color shift band wagon. I'm not demanding the spectro readings being 100%, but I don't want to watch a severely off-colored movie either. If choosing SS, stick with the original version with UPW 1050, or use the 1850, or add more to it like the polycrylic satin? But again I don't want to go too far away from out of the can if I choose this route.


The Silver Fire also sounds like a good option, but priced out looks double or triple the price + buying a sprayer which I've never used. Plus if I screw it up, do it again, which is normally fine, but doubles the cost/time. Living room is already fully decorated and with the overspray I was reading about on the sprayers, will I need to Dexter-proof everything in my living room with plastic?


I was leaning toward SF, but time and money and ease has me now leaning towards SS. Which will handle my situation/wants the best. Whichever one it is, will it be twice as good as the other, or just barely better/more noticeable?


Does SS cause a color shift? Is the price/work/time difference overwhelmingly worth it for the SF? With a 120" screen and 3 coats, will the standard SF mixture be enough or will I need to 1.5X it, again increasing costs.


Is the consensus that I should be going with a neutral gray whipped up by Home Depot to still give me the same out of the can but better performance?


I know true DIY spirit says try them both, but with the experience already out there, why not learn from those who have gone down this road before.


Thanks,

Greg
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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First, the obligatory and effusive "Hey! Welcome onboard AVS...and the DIY Screen Forum!"


How'd you find us...and /or how long ya been lurkin'?



SS is actually very close to neutral. Most early users, as well as those who followed were LCD owners...and those early, inexpensive (...relatively speaking...) LCD PJs already pushed a bit blue. Such a push was augmented and made more noticeable by a Gray Screen. That you don't find or hear about the "blues' from DLP owners pretty much confirms that. But more so, for a spell, many opted to dismiss SS because it was simply so simple...it couldn't be good.


But it was/is a good solution if it's matched with a decent PJ with enough lumens to drive past the attenuation all Gray Screen solutions without metallic content exhibit.


Newer LCDs are extremely accurate in color reproduction. so no worries there. The 6100 is chief among them. And lumens? It's a real producer at 1800 as it comes out of the box. It remains among my favorite budget 1080p PJ choices. Gray screens also help it's already substancial Contrast to really stand out.


Actually, if you were to solely consider SS, you could and should consider any of several similar Neutral Grays. They'd cost the same...and are mixed at the store just like SS. The difference is...with one of them you can achieve EXACT neutrality. Using SS is really these days is more about using a OCS* who name embodies "screens", but it is not to be construed as being a 'superior' mix simply because it carries a familiar name. But it can claim to have been among the very first OCS solutions that came along for consideration and found a considerable following. All Kudos to BCortez! However there were others just as impressive while being just as simple....just less known.*OCS = "one can solution"


For "Superior" to SS/OCS's you must consider the Silver Fire. It's another whole different animal....and comparison to SS is so off target, to exclaim the differences usually gets me ....well never mind what it gets me.
But with your light colored surfaces...and the possibility of more than a bit of ambient light because your room is multi-purpose...SF will / is going to be your best choice if you can wrap yourself around the needs and effort required.


Spraying Concerns? The latest $70.00 Wagner CS Double Duty has approx 50% less over spray...which makes it close to having absolutely NO over spray when using a wet mix like SF. With it, you only spend about 1.5 minutes spraying each coat. Even if it spit out clouds of paint, the time spent spraying would dictate no real issues.


But combine the "wetness" with the "speed" and the 98% effective atomization of the Wagner CS-DD, and you now have a Spray Gun rated for "Indoor Use". That's right! It's been rated for use indoors with ALL paints. And with a Paper mask.



That should be enough to convince anybody.


But mask/protect anyway. Tis' better to be redundant "protection-wise" than lacking in a excuse for a mistake.


Shoot gregt93, you should use the Wagner with whatever paint you choose. Fast...easy....a near perfect finish.. What's not to like?


The standard SF mix will do a 120"er. There will be no real amount left over though...but still enough to save for Prevail Sprayer touch ups if something mars the finish down the road. But so that you can practice with the Wagner....get a gallon of the white paint used in the Mix, and using some bit of what is left over after mixing SF Base w/Colorant, thin it accordingly...and spray a bit of practice on a sheet of old drywall, wood, or cardboard.


If you decide to spray...either SS/ a NG, or SF...I'll be certain to get you hooked up with enough spray instructions as to make sure you knock it out of the park the first time around.
 

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greg,


silverscreen has a flat RGB measurement... and is therefore technically considered nuetral.

it is however, darker than most people would prefer.


other than white, it's biggest component is lamp black... and this additive medium does it's job quite well of robbing light without giving anything back in return. since, it has nothing else within the mix at it's disposal to gain back that loss... you simply get a downward shift of the entire color sprectrum. in other words, every color returned to the viewer will be affected by the additive medium and therefore be darker.


if you have an apprehension to spraying... then quite simply... use rs-maxxmudd ll
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx /forum/post/16981960



if you have a apprehension to spraying... then quite simply... use rs-maxxmudd ll

That wizened old lady?
Oh...I see the "II" designation. Never mind.



Actually that would be the next best thing to SF...and several leaps above SS.


Not hard to mix in any way...not very costly.....performs far above average.


As I said before..."whats not to like?'


Well actually....rolling and getting less than perfect results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the welcome MM. I read a lot of projector reviews on another site which led me to the avs forums. After all the pj research I pulled the trigger a couple weeks ago, so I've only been lurking for the last month or so.


I'm not that apprehensive to spraying vs rolling, just heard cautions of overspray and such with a sprayer and didn't want to screw up the main focal point of the living room, or degrade from the projector at all. The current wall was probably painted 10+ years ago, so anything I do should be an improvement.


Not partial to SS over any other NG, but seemed to be the more popular OCS. Not that popularity picks the best one, but should be popular for a good reason, but not always the case.


It sounds like spraying is the preferred method even for the roll-able paints. I thought I read other threads that said even maxxmudd benefited from spraying to rolling, is that correct pb_maxxx? I also read that the rs-maxxmudd ll was better for lower lumens and controlled lighting, which I didn't think I fell in that category? So I'll probably go the spray route regardless of which paint I choose.


MM, you say to still cover stuff, to what degree are we talking? Picture a typical living room with electronics, sofas, etc all within 5 feet of the wall being painted. What is the minimum safe distance to leave things uncovered? Does the carpet need to be covered up to 4 feet or more? Total newb in the spraying game.


Which sprayer do you recommend? If it's only a $20-$30 difference but makes a justifiable difference in equipment, I don't mind paying more, as long as the ease/quality/usability goes up by a good percentage.


If spraying SF, should I go with SF, or SF lite? Does it need to be changed any for spraying? If I choose SS or similar, does that need to be changed for my application? Same question for the RS-Maxxmudd ll (that is LL not 2 correct?)
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregt93 /forum/post/16982374


Thanks for the welcome MM. I read a lot of projector reviews on another site which led me to the avs forums. After all the pj research I pulled the trigger a couple weeks ago, so I've only been lurking for the last month or so.

Ok then! Far better a "lurker" than a "Chain Jerker".


Quote:
I'm not that apprehensive to spraying vs rolling, just heard cautions of overspray and such with a sprayer and didn't want to screw up the main focal point of the living room, or degrade from the projector at all. The current wall was probably painted 10+ years ago, so anything I do should be an improvement.

No doubt.


Quote:
Not partial to SS over any other NG, but seemed to be the more popular OCS. Not that popularity picks the best one, but should be popular for a good reason, but not always the case.

Absolutely no doubt.


Quote:
It sounds like spraying is the preferred method even for the roll-able paints.

The "Non Sprayers" on here would dispute that, because simple OCS w/Poly actually do roll on very well. But mostly the objections are based on "It's good enough"....not "It's the best." ideals. Spraying is the best...but for those who cannot spray....rolling with due care can Rock.

Quote:
I thought I read other threads that said even maxxmudd benefited from spraying to rolling, is that correct pb_maxxx?

Hey! How rude!
The answer is yes...RIGHT PB?

Quote:
I also read that the rs-maxxmudd ll was better for lower lumens and controlled lighting, which I didn't think I fell in that category? So I'll probably go the spray route regardless of which paint I choose.

Good Man. You will not regret it.

Quote:
MM, you say to still cover stuff, to what degree are we talking? Picture a typical living room with electronics, sofas, etc all within 5 feet of the wall being painted.

That's a itty bitty living room.


Quote:
What is the minimum safe distance to leave things uncovered? Does the carpet need to be covered up to 4 feet or more? Total newb in the spraying game.

The use of very thin, inexpensive Plastic Drop Sheets (12' x 10' pkg of 2) allows for a quick cover of surrounding furniture. Using a more sturdy Plastic Drop Cloth across the floor at the bottom of the screen wall is IMO mandatory. I use the thin Plastic to mask from the edge of the screen outward, top/bottom/sides. One person can apply the plastic to the walls, and even the top of the Screen Wall out onto the Ceiling. Use 14 day Safe Release Blue Painter's Tape. I'll post some pics and a taping guide later...since you have a few extra days.

Quote:
Which sprayer do you recommend? If it's only a $20-$30 difference but makes a justifiable difference in equipment, I don't mind paying more, as long as the ease/quality/usability goes up by a good percentage.

Here is a image of the Electric, Self Contained Wagner Control Spray


[/quote]



The newer Wagner Control Spray Double Duty is such a bargain at $70.00, and even more so due to performance and convenience, it's hard to even suggest any alternative.



BUT THERE IS !!!!!


Right now at this site, the $149.95 upgraded unit is available on special for $88.50!



Get it here;

http://www.gleempaint.com/wagner-con...pray-plus.html


Holy Freolies ! That's just $18.00 more! Better grab one fast...I just ordered one immediately after finding it while checking for you. Thanks a LOT!!!!


Quote:
If spraying SF, should I go with SF, or SF lite? Does it need to be changed any for spraying? If I choose SS or similar, does that need to be changed for my application? Same question for the RS-Maxxmudd ll (that is LL not 2 correct?)

SF w/2 oz Colorant in prescribed Bases

No

> Both are just thinned adequately.

No


No & Yes
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks again MM.

I went ahead and bought the CSDD as I got it for $55 at Lowes, and didn't want to wait on shipping, and don't think I'll be using the sprayer enough to justify the bigger boy. Even if a great deal, if I don't use it much it probably doesn't justify the extra money, albeit a small amount, but glad you found it and ordered yourself one!


So I plan on priming 3 coats with Kilz2 diluted 35-40% with filtered water with 60% overlap, waiting 1 hour between coats. Then wait about what, a day?

Then 3 coats of SF Lite (2oz colorant), again waiting about an hour between coats and about 50% overlap.


Any modifications to that procedure?

MM, I know you are recommending SF Lite over SF, which is fine with me, just curious of when you would recommend SF? Most of my walls/ceiling/carpet are light colored with a decent amount of ambient light. I would have figured SF, but am fine going SF Lite, just curious when you would recommend the 3 oz over the 2oz.


Thanks again
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregt93 /forum/post/16986576


Thanks again MM.

I went ahead and bought the CSDD as I got it for $55 at Lowes, and didn't want to wait on shipping, and don't think I'll be using the sprayer enough to justify the bigger boy. Even if a great deal, if I don't use it much it probably doesn't justify the extra money, albeit a small amount, but glad you found it and ordered yourself one!

Yessir! Me more than you, I'm a'tellin ya! But hey! The CS-DD? If the other hadn't come on sale...I'd have bought the one you did at that excellent price in a virtual heartbeat. It's a much improved unit over the original CS, so your hooked up to paint a Screen more than adequately.

Quote:
So I plan on priming 3 coats with Kilz2 diluted 35-40% with filtered water with 60% overlap, waiting 1 hour between coats. Then wait about what, a day?

Then 3 coats of SF Lite (2oz colorant), again waiting about an hour between coats and about 50% overlap.


Any modifications to that procedure?

Stick to 60% overlap on every sprayed instance. The longer you wait between any coat, the better the next coat will "set" because the previous coat cannot add to the moisture the new coat delivers.

Quote:
MM, I know you are recommending SF Lite over SF, which is fine with me, just curious of when you would recommend SF? Most of my walls/ceiling/carpet are light colored with a decent amount of ambient light. I would have figured SF, but am fine going SF Lite, just curious when you would recommend the 3 oz over the 2oz.


Thanks again

Lumens Baby! That...combined with Screen size, throw distance, PJ's contrast specs.....proximity of reflected surfaces.....



Basically, SF can be infinitely adjusted. It's easy to make a 2.5 oz or 1.5 colorant mix as well as it is a 2.0 or a 1.0. I mix 'em as I see the need, not to the set standards we publish. But that's me...and my own experience talking. By nature on DIY matters, confining it to a more tractable number of choices serves to make it seem less daunting a choice to determine.


That is unless you simply let us make the choice for you base on your correct and complete input.


Then it's easy as pie.



Of course, that makes us responsible for any failure.
So far though...I've escaped the Noose. Or got a reprieve because advice wasn't always followed to a"T".
 
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